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  #1  
Old 11-01-2018, 08:56 PM
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Default Rimshots on die cast hoops

I mostly play triple flange hoops, have done for years ever since I started drumming.

I bought a Gretsch 10 ply snare a couple of years ago with die cast hoops.
Same as this one. https://www.gak.co.uk/en/gretsch-sil...natural/102916


It's a beautiful drum but I generally find it a bit harder to get consistent rimshots simply because of the extra depth of the rim. Takes me a good 20 minutes to get comfortable with it. Admittedly I don't play it as often as my triple flange snares and need to practise with it more to get used to the rim. Put a triple flange in front of me though and the rimshots are so easy and consistent. Also, the feel in my hand from rimshotting a triple flange is nicer to me.

As far as the sound, yes, it has a lovely crack to it, but I do feel the sound is a bit one dimensional and lacks warmth compared to my triple flange snares. I don't know if this is the same with all snares that have die cast hoops.

Maybe a die cast hoop snare with less plys is warmer? Of my triple flange snares, one is 3 ply and the other has a few more but I don't think it's anything like 10. But they're both very warm sounding. So for those reasons, I don't think this snare or perhaps any snare with die cast rims will ever become my go to. I do enjoy playing it occasionally though and it certainly has some volume.


Does anyone else here prefer triple flange over diecast for similar reasons?
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

I used to be a poster boy for DC hoops. Then one day I woke up and just like that, blammo, my tastes changed. Now I am all about the 2.3 mm TF hoops.

I'm thinking the thinner the drum, the more you don't want DC. I have a real thick ply maple drum, and it works on that better than on my thin shelled drums. The lighter the total weight of the drum, the more it sings.

Treat it nice DC hoops are cold as ice ha ha.
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

Or the third option: S Hoops by Ahead. Best middle ground between triple flange and die cast! They're lighter like triple flange but stiffer like a die cast, and the horizontal surface makes for the best rim shots and side sticking I've experienced. They do sit much closer to the head surface so they take a little getting used to at first. But they do reduce fatigue on your sticks and wrists.
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:46 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

I've never been a fan of DC hoops. They look great, and they sound great on a cross-stick, but 2.3 mm triple flanged hoops are just fine for me. I've never felt I needed to "upgrade" and add the expense.
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

Yes trickg, I'm the same, I feel triple flanged are fine for me. I might try one of the S-Hoops though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I used to be a poster boy for DC hoops. Then one day I woke up and just like that, blammo, my tastes changed. Now I am all about the 2.3 mm TF hoops.

I'm thinking the thinner the drum, the more you don't want DC. I have a real thick ply maple drum, and it works on that better than on my thin shelled drums. The lighter the total weight of the drum, the more it sings.

Treat it nice DC hoops are cold as ice ha ha.
Lol, yes, a bit cold. Ah that's interesting larry, as I'm sure you're right that DC needs a shell with more plies. Yes I find that thinner shells definitely sing more and I guess I prefer that, and the feel under my stick on impact.

"I have a real thick ply maple drum", poor thing, perhaps it never went to school? :D


Mustion, they sound interesting. Just watched a Gavin Harrison promo vid for S Hoops, he's been using them since 2006 apparently and says there's more surface area so better for a cross stick sound, just like you said. On Amazon UK, there's only one 8" S Hoop from Ahead, but a whole bunch of them by S-Hoop. I think the ones Gavin was showing is by S-Hoop. Is there some significant difference? And do they still give as much warmth and tone as regular TF? I would imagine they'd reduce ringing though?
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Last edited by Merlin5; 11-02-2018 at 03:09 AM.
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

I guess I'm the odd man out. Haven't tried S Hoops, but had the Mapex Stick Savers on my Sledgehammer. I liked that hoop as much as my cast hoops. I don't rimshot much, but side sticks on the DC are still my favorite of the options. Very loud and crisp, but I haven't found them to be any less or more predictable/inconsistent.
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Old 11-01-2018, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

DC's are the most useful on single ply in my humble opinion, in fact the only time i use them.
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Old 11-01-2018, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

Most of my snares are Gretsch and even my BB has die cast hoops.

Obviously , it's what I'm used to, so I have no issues.

I prefer that sound, that's why I play what I play, but where they really outperform others to my taste is the side stick. That's a big deal to me.

I use only Ambassadors.
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Last edited by Odd-Arne Oseberg; 11-02-2018 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 11-01-2018, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

I've got a kit and a couple snares that have die cast. Love the looks of them.
Triple flange are just fine too.
Like someone said, a thicker 2 ply head and die casts are a bit too much.

I also put S hoops on a kit for a while.
They make the drum striking area a bit smaller, which doesn't matter as much on toms as it does on snares, IMO.
The also can make it more difficult to mount mics.
But ya - they're a good middle ground for sound and feel between die cast and triple flange.
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:21 AM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

I was into die cast hoops on snares for a while but use TF these days. I still have a couple snares with DC and agree with Merlin that it takes a little time to adjust to the angle to land consistent rim shots. I like the open sound TF hoops produce. If I were playing a song that called for cross stick I might go for a snare with DC.
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Old 11-02-2018, 01:42 AM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

Die-cast rims are less forgiving for rimshots IMO. The sweet spot is smaller due to how rigid die-cast hoops are. In general, the thicker and more rigid the hoop, the more precise your rimshot angles have to be. Thin 1.5mm triple flanged hoops are easier to get rimshots on.

I prefer triple flanged, mainly for the open sound, but to a lesser extent because they're easier to rimshot. I do prefer the rim knocks on die-cast hoops though.

Last edited by IBitePrettyHard; 11-02-2018 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 11-02-2018, 02:52 AM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

I 2'nd the S-Hoops.
I have these on a few of my snares and am always really happy with them.
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  #13  
Old 11-02-2018, 03:54 AM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

Die cast hoops aren't better or worse than other hoops, they're just different (and pricey). I really like them, but I like regular triple flange, or Slingerland style hoops too.

I think die cast hoops actually have a weaker cross-stick sound, but they have a nice effect on the overall sound of a drum. They tend to lessen certain harmonics due the weight and stiffness, and I usually like it better. As for rim shots on snares, you get used to the added height after a few minutes no problem.
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Old 11-02-2018, 09:21 AM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

To me, triple-flange is the Strat while die cast is the Les Paul. I think this analogy works on several levels. Even though the LP is more expensive, you can’t claim one’s ‘better’ than the other.
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Old 11-02-2018, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

Purely a taste thing and what works for a given scenario thing, certainly.

I think my taste was probably quite engrained even before I started playing drums.

I know many with completely different tastes, generally people who like to tune lower and less busy than I do, but there are also drums I too feel would get to choked out. The shell needs it.
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:01 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

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Originally Posted by Merlin5 View Post
It's a beautiful drum but I generally find it a bit harder to get consistent rimshots simply because of the extra depth of the rim.
When I switched from die cast to triple flange, I had trouble getting rimshots for the exact opposite reason, so that's mostly about getting used to it.

I do prefer the sound of TF as diecast seems to take away some frequencies and make the sound a little less natura lIMHO (but sometimes that can be a good thing) but how missed how it stayed tuned better when doing steady rimshots due to its added stiffness. On my Ludwig Standard Maple snare (brand new and 10 lugs), I have to retighten the rod closest to where I hit after nearly every song, while my previous Tama SLP snare never budged. I don't that issue with my '68 Acrolite though (triple flange, 8 lugs) but that's mostly cause the rods are old and rusted a bit.
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Old 11-02-2018, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

I never really got on with the S hoops. They're OK I guess. It attempts to split the difference between TF and DC but IMO they don't sound better than TF or DC.

They are too ambiguous or something. Pick a side lol.
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Old 11-02-2018, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

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Originally Posted by Merlin5 View Post
On Amazon UK, there's only one 8" S Hoop from Ahead, but a whole bunch of them by S-Hoop. I think the ones Gavin was showing is by S-Hoop. Is there some significant difference?
I think only Ahead makes them but they're colloquially known as "S-Hoop" so that's probably the confusion. Yeah they're kind of hard to come by as a result. I get mine from Cascio/Interstate Music but I'm not sure what their shipping rates are to the UK. Good luck!
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Old 11-04-2018, 02:44 AM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustion View Post
Or the third option: S Hoops by Ahead. Best middle ground between triple flange and die cast! They're lighter like triple flange but stiffer like a die cast, and the horizontal surface makes for the best rim shots and side sticking I've experienced. They do sit much closer to the head surface so they take a little getting used to at first. But they do reduce fatigue on your sticks and wrists.
Totally agree. I have S-hoops on both my go to snares in addition to having them on the batter side of my Sonor Delite toms.
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Old 11-11-2018, 06:38 AM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

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Originally Posted by Mustion View Post
I think only Ahead makes them but they're colloquially known as "S-Hoop" so that's probably the confusion. Yeah they're kind of hard to come by as a result. I get mine from Cascio/Interstate Music but I'm not sure what their shipping rates are to the UK. Good luck!
You can also get them at Drum Factory Direct. I've had really good luck with them on both toms and snares. They do take a >little< bit of getting used to. They really are a good alternative to both TF and DC hoops.
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Old 11-11-2018, 06:51 AM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

I'm not sure what the problem is. I play both die cast and triple flanged, and have never had a problem getting nice sounding rimshots. Again, it's down to the drummer and his technique - don't blame the instrument. What if you played the old Slingerlands with their curved in hoops? Would that still be a problem? I played those too and never had any problems with rimshots.

Go play that drum more. At least five hours a day like you're supposed to ;)
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Old 11-11-2018, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
I'm not sure what the problem is. I play both die cast and triple flanged, and have never had a problem getting nice sounding rimshots. Again, it's down to the drummer and his technique - don't blame the instrument. What if you played the old Slingerlands with their curved in hoops? Would that still be a problem? I played those too and never had any problems with rimshots.

Go play that drum more. At least five hours a day like you're supposed to ;)
I like all of the different types of rims - I came up playing the Slingerland rims - then triple flanged,. Although I never owned a drum with Die-cast hoops until much later, I played a practice kit that had them and really liked the sound and feel.

I saw this video recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtiVNCIRE4o
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:35 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

I have a few snares with diecast hoops.. rimshots feel great, nice crack to them too.

Tuning is a big thing. As well as head selection. it will be much more focused, if you are looking for a warmer sound I would probibly use a different head than a triple flange.


With ANY snare, I think of how I want to tune it. Look at the material of the drum, and the hoops. First. is it the right snare for the job? If I want a big deep wet sound I won't use a piccolo. If I want that 311 sound from back in the day I am not using a 14x8. If I want a dark warm sound i'm not reaching for a brass with diecast as well.

With proper head selection though, you can make any snare sound pretty much however you want. Some just do it a bit better and easier than others.
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Old 11-13-2018, 03:45 AM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

All the snares I own, up until recently, are die-cast (top side at least) and then I bought a Tama HH Copper snare with custom machined triple flange 2.3 brass hoops. Previous snares... 8" birch Tama Superstar, 6.5" Tama B/B, 5" Tama SC, and 5" Tama S.L.P. Dynamic Bronze. It seems to me that the DC hoops crack more, and with more volume, but blend more with the tone of a normal head hit. The copper with TF seems to have a bigger difference in tone between rimshots vs normal strikes, but the volume seems closer. ... But obviously there are enough differences in shell materials and depth, that those might account for the difference. All have the same batter head (Evans coated hybrid). I have noticed no difference in my ability to crack one off. ;)
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Old 11-13-2018, 05:08 AM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

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Originally Posted by VitalTransformation View Post
To me, triple-flange is the Strat while die cast is the Les Paul. I think this analogy works on several levels.
Triple flanged is the Fender Telecaster, and Die cast is the Gibson 335. Double flanged stick choppers are the Fender Stratocaster, and S-Hoops are the Fender Jaguar. Wood hoops are the Martin acoustic. Brass triple flanged are the Gibson Les Paul.
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:55 AM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

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Originally Posted by drumming sort of person View Post
Triple flanged is the Fender Telecaster, and Die cast is the Gibson 335. Double flanged stick choppers are the Fender Stratocaster, and S-Hoops are the Fender Jaguar. Wood hoops are the Martin acoustic. Brass triple flanged are the Gibson Les Paul.
Then I'm going for the Martin sound on my kit ;)
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:47 AM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

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Originally Posted by drumming sort of person View Post
Triple flanged is the Fender Telecaster, and Die cast is the Gibson 335. Double flanged stick choppers are the Fender Stratocaster, and S-Hoops are the Fender Jaguar. Wood hoops are the Martin acoustic. Brass triple flanged are the Gibson Les Paul.
I like it! ;)
So do hoops play as big a roll in the sound of a drum as the shell? It definitely affects the sound more than most people realize.
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Old 11-14-2018, 05:32 AM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

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Originally Posted by mike d View Post
I like it! ;)
So do hoops play as big a roll in the sound of a drum as the shell? It definitely affects the sound more than most people realize.
I would say it does for me "psychologically". Whereas if I see wood hoops I think "warm". But, in the grand scheme of things, when you play with a band, I just hear "drums".
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  #29  
Old 11-27-2018, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

I use die cast across my DW MM collectors (snare and 10, 12, 14-inch toms). They really do see to quell a bit of the ring, which is good for me.

As far as getting rimshots, they sound great with shallow and deep rimshots, both.
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Old 11-27-2018, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

I own all three: I have triples on my aluminium snare, die-cast on my brass snare and S-Hoops on my Guru. (I had stick savers on my Mapex, which I recently sold.) I love the sound of cross-sticking on the S-Hoops, but to be honest I think all of them sound great and I don't have any particular problems coaxing a great sound out of any of them. When in doubt, I reverse the stick.
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

Funny how things change. I said my diecast Gretsch would never be my go to snare. Haha, spoke too soon. It's become my go to snare! I've been playing it exclusively for the last couple of months and I'm enjoying it immensely. Rimshots have become a breeze and I don't currently have a desire to play triple flange.
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

I don't know if these are available to purchase separately yet, but I'm really liking the 2.3 Inverse DynaHoops on the Tour Customs I got.

I've got TF hoops from 1.5 up to 3mm, die cast, and S hoops, but I think these Dynas combine the best features of all of them.

I don't have them on a snare yet, but they're great if you like to do rim shots on your toms.
So I'm thinking they'd be perfect for snare rim shots too.



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Old 01-07-2019, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

Ha! Never say never as the saying goes. I've played around with the different hoops since this thread too, but I just dig the die cast hoops rim shots and side sticks. Don't do a ton of rim shots, but do side sticks quite a bit.

I love the tone of my Starphonic Bubinga a ton, but the 1.6 hoops just don't click like the DC hoops do. I put DC hoops on it and it died, so there are drums that don't work well with them for sure!
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:33 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin5 View Post
On Amazon UK, there's only one 8" S Hoop from Ahead, but a whole bunch of them by S-Hoop. I think the ones Gavin was showing is by S-Hoop. Is there some significant difference?
I think the manufacturer is S-Hoop. They come stock on Ahead snares, and both are distributed by the same company. Not sure if Ahead makes the hoops, or if they're both made by the parent company, or if they're individual companies with a mutual distributor.

I love them on my Ahead brass snare. I had a nearly identical sound on my old Legend maple snare with die-cast hoops. It's really telling, how little the shell material affects tone. The Legend snare rang with a nearly identical tone as the brass one.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:51 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

I don't have any problems controlling and executing rim shots on snares with either die cast or triple flange. However, I have noticed that it is harder for me to get the right angle for die cast toms.
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  #36  
Old 01-07-2019, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

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Originally Posted by evolving_machine View Post
I don't have any problems controlling and executing rim shots on snares with either die cast or triple flange. However, I have noticed that it is harder for me to get the right angle for die cast toms.
The Brooklyn 302 hoops are even higher and worked me over for a while! Those definitely take some getting used to. It was a very good exercise in technique awareness, that's for sure. A bit more than just getting used to DC hoops on a snare!
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Old 01-17-2019, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: Rimshots on die cast hoops

I always found S hoops had insane ring & sustain. I never kept them on my snares. Always went back to the triple flanged.
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