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  #1  
Old 01-17-2014, 07:07 PM
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Default Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play?

If you walk in to a club or show and see the drum kit angular configuration....prior to the start of the show or ever seeing or hearing the drummer....are you able to predict the level of mediocrity of the performance to follow?

Is there a corresponding algorithm that predicts level of mediocrity that is porportional to tom angle and tom spread?
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

I would ask that quesion of Mr. McBrain
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:11 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

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I would ask that quesion of Mr. McBrain
Yes, the king of wrap around dashboard drummers.
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

you tell me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA9CqWP4a2w&t=3m15s
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

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I would ask that quesion of Mr. McBrain
ha beat me to it! .
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

Is there a difference between the big rock show and the clinic or club?

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Old 01-17-2014, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

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Old 01-17-2014, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

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Is there a difference between the big rock show and the clinic or club?



This picture is more accurate of the angles he uses.
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

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This picture is more accurate of the angles he uses.
No...only with Maiden and the expectation of the big rock show.
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play







Anyway, we all know the guy and his playing...these kits are his with McBrain Damage.
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  #11  
Old 01-17-2014, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

Dented heads are a more reliable indicator.
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Old 01-17-2014, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

I don't think Nicko adds any weight to the counter argument. I'd suggest that, by today's standards, he is about average.
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Old 01-17-2014, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

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Dented heads are a more reliable indicator.
That could also be an indicator of low funds.
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Old 01-17-2014, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

i dont really care about the angle. i wound never judge a drummer by the angle of his toms. if someone wants to play them upside down and knows what they are doing, go ahead!
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

Years ago...and I'm referencing the video of Max Roach....I think it was more common for drums to be set up like that and probably had/has some validity from a playing approach. It was also more common *years* ago to drive an Edsel or have a land line as your only means of communication.

I'm no drum historian, but I do not think too many world famous or famous drummers configure there kit today as was done in the Roach video. The Max Roach video does not apply to this question because we all know that today drum equipment, endorsements and advancements have changed the look of the drum kit, the ergonomics and the setup-ability. .

If any one of us here walked into a club and saw a kit like what max roach is playing in that video, I suspect the thought would occur..."hmmm that is odd; I wonder about this drummer"
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  #16  
Old 01-17-2014, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

Tom Angle is a cold hearted bastard who makes snap decisions when it comes to drummers. But he does have a softer side:

http://www.tomangleentertainment.com/index
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  #17  
Old 01-18-2014, 12:20 AM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

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Tom Angle is a cold hearted bastard who makes snap decisions when it comes to drummers. But he does have a softer side:

http://www.tomangleentertainment.com/index
Well, now. That was a surprise.
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  #18  
Old 01-18-2014, 12:28 AM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

At the risk of being serious.. I was at GC today and this guy (dad of a young drummer) brings in a snare and two toms and asks the clerk if he can change heads, clean-up ect. While they were in a pile behind the counter (Ludwig Accents) I noticed the tom on top was dented so badly.. I couldn't help myself and showed the dad how the toms were set on all the sets in the store and asked if his sons were like that or extremely angled.. We ended up talking for about 20 minutes he, had a ton of questions made the trip for snare heads enjoyable.
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  #19  
Old 01-18-2014, 01:03 AM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

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Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
Tom Angle is a cold hearted bastard who makes snap decisions when it comes to drummers. But he does have a softer side:

http://www.tomangleentertainment.com/index
See..everyone missed it but you, John. Being a member of NARD seems to have a great degree of overlap with intelligence on the venn diagram :-)

That was good!
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  #20  
Old 01-18-2014, 01:26 AM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

I think it CAN actually be a tell tale sign of a bad drummer or in-experienced drummer.

That's not to say all drummers who do this are bad but, it's very common for beginners to do this.
If it's a cheap kit, textreme angles and bad cymbals you can have a good idea of what to expect. Or get the surprise of your life!

Also, I think alot of 'mediocre' drummers now set their toms up flat-table top style as it seems to be the in thing. I found that also doesn't guarantee a great drummer.

Do what works for you and not just blindly follow trends. Either for of extreme angle, tilted or flat always seems like a bad idea to me mechanically so I aim for a happy medium so my wrists get full and equal movement either way.
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  #21  
Old 01-18-2014, 01:47 AM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

We should ask Paul Leim...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWMKAX8Chuc

if you can get over the tom angles look at the dent in the middle of his snare - PRO!
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  #22  
Old 01-18-2014, 02:06 AM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

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Originally Posted by Big Foot View Post
We should ask Paul Leim...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWMKAX8Chuc

if you can get over the tom angles look at the dent in the middle of his snare - PRO!
I really enjoyed that video! Sorta funny Tom angles but not extreme....nevertheless the video and insights into the Nashville process were great.
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  #23  
Old 01-18-2014, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

Alvin Mcqueen killing with weird angles!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSLdcEaUOJ0#t=663
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  #24  
Old 01-18-2014, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

I don't think tom angles are the most reliable factor as some good drummers do set them up strange. Paul Mazurkiewicz from Cannibal Corpse plays quick fills with the toms weird on their live cannibalism DVD.

I'd rather not judge a 'bad' drummer because everyone has the right to develop their talents and show others what level they are at. As long as they arent pretencious about their level or doing gigs where they don't belong ie playing big crowds I'd rather not judge.

IF I was going to look at anything I'd look at the consistency of the angles. I've seen some drummers who have their rack toms turned in to each other as this is how they are left in rehearsal studios. Or they have loads of space between each tom.

What is maybe more telling is if drummers start asking to borrow pedals/snares/cymbals etc.
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Old 01-18-2014, 11:32 AM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

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Originally Posted by DancingMadlyBackwards View Post
Years ago...and I'm referencing the video of Max Roach....I think it was more common for drums to be set up like that and probably had/has some validity from a playing approach. It was also more common *years* ago to drive an Edsel or have a land line as your only means of communication.

I'm no drum historian, but I do not think too many world famous or famous drummers configure there kit today as was done in the Roach video. The Max Roach video does not apply to this question because we all know that today drum equipment, endorsements and advancements have changed the look of the drum kit, the ergonomics and the setup-ability. .

If any one of us here walked into a club and saw a kit like what max roach is playing in that video, I suspect the thought would occur..."hmmm that is odd; I wonder about this drummer"
For whatever it's worth, I've read that Max used to have kits supplied to him most of the time when he played. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case with this kit, and that someone else set it up in that strange configuration. And that he just shrugged when he saw it, and figured he wouldn't bother adjusting it and would just deal with it. Based on some of the things I've read from or about Max, he might see it as a point of pride that he could still "sound like Max" on a kit like that, since in his estimation it was the player and not the instrument that determined the sound that was made.
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Old 01-18-2014, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

Generally I would say yes to the original question. If you put serious thought into getting the biggest result from the least effort, you will learn to maximize all your drum angles. So if I see a poorly set up kit, I would think this person has not put much thought or effort into playing drums. Then I discover a guy named Pete Zeldman, awful angles and horribly tuned drums, but anyone who can play 34 over 35 is far from mediocre.
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

I think pre-judgeing any musician,let alone a drummer who favors more of an angle with his toms or cymbals is a bit shallow.What about the guy who favors vintage 60's Slingerlands over modern Crush acrylics?

Ginger Baker,set up his toms flat ,back in the 60's.Does that mean,he was better than everybody else back then,that angled their toms?

Should I remind anyone, of why drummers developed traditional grip?Why do we still use it today.

Take a look at Mike Mangini's current Pearl set up....tom angles a plenty.

Answer to all of the above............because it works for THAT drummer,and what works for you .is different matter entirely.Thats why shoes come in different sizes...because we're all different.

Steve B
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Old 01-20-2014, 04:27 AM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

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Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
I think pre-judgeing any musician,let alone a drummer who favors more of an angle with his toms or cymbals is a bit shallow.What about the guy who favors vintage 60's Slingerlands over modern Crush acrylics?

Ginger Baker,set up his toms flat ,back in the 60's.Does that mean,he was better than everybody else back then,that angled their toms?

Should I remind anyone, of why drummers developed traditional grip?Why do we still use it today.

Take a look at Mike Mangini's current Pearl set up....tom angles a plenty.

Answer to all of the above............because it works for THAT drummer,and what works for you .is different matter entirely.Thats why shoes come in different sizes...because we're all different.

Steve B
Amen to this.

If you're comfortable with severe tom angles, so be it. Looking at Max Roach and Nicko McBrain, I would think the answer to be quite apparent.
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  #29  
Old 01-20-2014, 04:36 AM
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Default Re: Does Tom Angle inform the level of mediocrity of a drummer prior to ever seeing the drummer play

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Originally Posted by Big Foot View Post
look at the dent in the middle of his snare - PRO!
That's not a dent - it's just a little bit of black from the head being played a bit.

You can't judge angles without also considering the relative height of the drum to the player. Nicko McBrain's toms are at his shoulders - you can't possibly expect him to play with them flat!

I think drum position can give you an idea of how a player's technique works or doesn't work - a low, angled snare works for JR Robinson's goofy-looking hand technique but I can't argue with the sound and feel he creates. Low and angled doesn't work terribly well for 90% of the people I've seen play like that.

I think the biggest indicator is the relationship between snare and rack tom height and angles - most local folks who put their snare and rack tom at the same height and angle (flat) tend to be very stiff in their playing.
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