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  #1  
Old 01-31-2013, 09:21 PM
drumming4life drumming4life is offline
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Default Subdivisions

Just wondering how the 8th note triplet drum notation ( 1 - trip - let ) compares to the 16th note straight pattern ( 1 e + a ). Would I be right to say that the trip of the 8th note triplet pattern would fall between the 1e, and the +a of the 16th straight pattern if they were lined up above each other on a music sheet? I would also like to improve my reading skills and was wondering if anyone had any good tips or links for me to check out, thanks, Alex.
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  #2  
Old 01-31-2013, 09:26 PM
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topgun2021 topgun2021 is offline
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Default Re: Subdivisions

I would say no because if the back two notes landed in between the 16ths that would make the notes duple time, not triple. Thus, not part of the triplet.
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  #3  
Old 01-31-2013, 09:28 PM
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Fuo Fuo is offline
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Default Re: Subdivisions

Just think of them as numbers out of 100 or whatever, so:

1 = 0
e = 25
+ = 50
a = 75

1 = 0
trip = 33
let = 66

So:
TRIP falls just after 'e'
+ falls dead between TRIP and LET
LET falls just before 'a'

Its a 4:3 poly-rhythm. It maybe easier to learn it as dotted 1/8s and 1/4s:

Code:
o--o--o--o--
o---o---o---
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  #4  
Old 01-31-2013, 10:58 PM
drumming4life drumming4life is offline
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Default Re: Subdivisions

thanks, just getting confused, but I think I understand now.
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  #5  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:00 PM
drumming4life drumming4life is offline
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Default Re: Subdivisions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuo View Post
Just think of them as numbers out of 100 or whatever, so:

1 = 0
e = 25
+ = 50
a = 75

1 = 0
trip = 33
let = 66

So:
TRIP falls just after 'e'
+ falls dead between TRIP and LET
LET falls just before 'a'

Its a 4:3 poly-rhythm. It maybe easier to learn it as dotted 1/8s and 1/4s:

Code:
o--o--o--o--
o---o---o---
So if I was playing this, how would it be counted and how would I be able to get each seperate rhythm consistant and in time?
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  #6  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:15 PM
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Fuo Fuo is offline
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Default Re: Subdivisions

Counting it out with trip 1/8s and 1/16s would be very difficult, that's why I suggested slowing down to 1/4s and dotted 1/8s. Its more countable imo, and you learn the feel. Once you have the feel you can "speed it up" to 1/16s and trip 1/8s.

Code:
1e+a2e+a3e+a
o--o--o--o--
o---o---o---
I like to program this kinda stuff into a drum machine (Hydrogen is free), and play along with it to get the feel at first. Like this (dotted 1/8s and 1/4s):
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  #7  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:17 PM
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Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is offline
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Default Re: Subdivisions

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumming4life View Post
So if I was playing this, how would it be counted and how would I be able to get each seperate rhythm consistant and in time?
Practice. Set a click (something slow-ish) and alternate back and forth. Do 4 bars of straight 8ths or 16ths, then to 4 more of 8th triplets.

Just keep your counts on the clicks, and subdivide in-between them.
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  #8  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:22 PM
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Fuo Fuo is offline
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Default Re: Subdivisions

This simple snare accent pattern is another way to learn the 4:3 feel.

Code:
1/16s:
    >  >  >  >
SD: RlrLrlRlrLrl
BD: o---o---o---
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:25 PM
larryace
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  #9  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:33 PM
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Fuo Fuo is offline
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Default Re: Subdivisions

But that implies that they're all evenly spaced. Its more like

1 etrip and leta
2 etrip and leta
3 etrip and leta
4 etrip and leta

The space before 'etrip', and after 'leta' is a little more than the space before and after 'and'.
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  #10  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:35 PM
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Swiss Matthias Swiss Matthias is offline
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Default Re: Subdivisions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuo View Post
This simple snare accent pattern is another way to learn the 4:3 feel.

Code:
1/16s:
    >  >  >  >
SD: RlrLrlRlrLrl
BD: o---o---o---
Except that in your example you don't have any triplets whatsoever. Although you are
playing 4:3, it's a different story to feel it from the other perspective, namely feel the
four strokes as pulse reference, and the three against it.
Your examples in this have the three part as the pulse, and to get the four strokes against
that you don't need to go into triplet world but subdivide the three into four - say - sixteenths.
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  #11  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:36 PM
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larryace larryace is online now
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Default Re: Subdivisions

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumming4life View Post
Just wondering how the 8th note triplet drum notation ( 1 - trip - let ) compares to the 16th note straight pattern ( 1 e + a ). Would I be right to say that the trip of the 8th note triplet pattern would fall between the 1e, and the +a of the 16th straight pattern if they were lined up above each other on a music sheet? I would also like to improve my reading skills and was wondering if anyone had any good tips or links for me to check out, thanks, Alex.
Yes you are correct. It's not an exact line up, but it's close enough. This is how they would overlap if laid on top of one another

1 e trip and let a
2 e trip and let a
3 e trip and let a
4 e trip and let a

exactly what drumming4life said

imagined pulse on the 8th notes (red letters) for counting/tapping along is one way to count it.

For a simple mental separation exercise, tap out 16th notes with your finger while speaking one trip let 2 trip let etc.
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  #12  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:51 PM
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Default Re: Subdivisions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Matthias View Post
Except that in your example you don't have any triplets whatsoever. Although you are
playing 4:3, it's a different story to feel it from the other perspective, namely feel the
four strokes as pulse reference, and the three against it.
Your examples in this have the three part as the pulse, and to get the four strokes against
that you don't need to go into triplet world but subdivide the three into four - say - sixteenths.
Yea. I guess what I was trying to say was to back up and learn the 4:3 feel, which is pretty common, then once that is comfortable, apply it to this (flip it and speed it up). Work you way up to it, instead of jumping into the deep end.

And I'm not sure how larry's post moved down to after my response to it, but w/e ;)
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  #13  
Old 02-01-2013, 03:56 AM
Otto Otto is offline
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Default Re: Subdivisions

I tried to come up with a good way to express how to develop facility playing artifical grouping figures.

Im failing miserably.

For me, it feels like walking...a cycle takes one limb and a different cycle takes the other...and after a while you get the sensation...

I had to have a degree of "letting go" while working to get the feel of various artifical groupings...kinda like patting my head and rubbing my stomach while balancing on a ledge while being chased by a vicious metronome monster clicking its virtual teeth at my lagging hiney.

I think looking for the unison points between limbs really helped me.

(and yes...during the early eighties I did do this "in highschool halls" but not so much "in shopping malls")
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