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  #1  
Old 01-25-2013, 01:18 AM
bstan bstan is offline
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Default Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

I have an unused aluminum snare that is kind of cheap and crappy and some nice unused wood hoops. I put them on and it sounds plastic. Any tuning advise or should I just scrap the idea?
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:21 AM
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

The first question we need to know is if you are proficient in the art of tuning and what head s you are using.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:27 AM
bstan bstan is offline
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

Yeah im a good tuner and ive even used a tunebot to get exact tuning. I have an ambassador on the bottom and I can use a coated ambassador on top, remo clear black dot, or a remo controlled sound x.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:32 AM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

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I have an ambassador on the bottom
Snare side Ambassador or regular Ambassador?
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  #5  
Old 01-25-2013, 01:35 AM
bstan bstan is offline
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

Snare side, its actually the stock reso ambassador from my black panther
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:53 AM
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

I'd ditch the wood hoops. Aluminum is a bit on the dry side compared to steel or brass and the wood hoops will only dry it out more. I'd invest in some 2.3 mm flange or die cast hoops. If you're a heavy hitter, die cast will give you a more aggressive sounding rim shot and crosstick sound as well. Flange will be a little more resonant, so if you like a lot of ring I'd go that route.

I don't own one but I've played a friends Ludwig wood snare (think it was a 6.5) with wood hoops and it sounded fantastic, so if you want to use the wood I'd get a wood snare.
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  #7  
Old 01-25-2013, 10:51 AM
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

There's nothing wrong in using wood hoops with a metal snare. Think of Ayotte.. I had Yamaha wood hoops on an aluminum Beverley 21 snare, and got lots of compliments on the sound. I also tried die cast hoops on it. Eventually I settled on flanged hoops on that drum, like I do with all drums. I just prefer the feel. I also tried all kinds of heads with the wood hoops, ambassadors, ambassador x,cs, evans power center reverse dot, vintage a's, emperors. They all work fine. Once again I tend to like standard ambassadors on all drums. You will like what you like, be it wood, steel, bronze, tight, loose, medium....
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

Apologies for a slight thread hijack, what is the difference between wooden, flanged and die cast heads, I have never been able to figure this out.

Thanks
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

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Apologies for a slight thread hijack, what is the difference between wooden, flanged and die cast heads, I have never been able to figure this out.

Thanks
It's hoops not heads.

Wood Ply Hoops



Triple Flange Hoops



Die Cast Hoops

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Old 01-25-2013, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

OK, sorry hoops.

Perhaps I was not clear, not the appearance, but the sonic difference, how they influence the sound of the drum?

Thanks
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  #11  
Old 01-25-2013, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

I put wood hoops on my Acro and it killed the sound. Very dead. Even with the standard Ctd Amb over Hazy Amb... I would advise against it unless you are looking for a flat, dry, mid range punch minimal crack and low end.
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  #12  
Old 01-25-2013, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

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OK, sorry hoops.

Perhaps I was not clear, not the appearance, but the sonic difference, how they influence the sound of the drum?

Thanks
Depends on the drum, & also the structure of the hoops. For example, there's a very big difference between thick ply hoops (that are effectively sonically dead), & segmented or steam bent single ply wood hoops.

Ignoring segmented & steam bent single ply hoops for the moment (simply on the basis that they're more specialised), the very basic differences as follows;

Triple flange: Typically the lightest of the metal hoop varieties, in this comparison, they add minimal mass to the drum closest to the head. They're pressed, as such, they ring if you strike them. Put these two features together, & these hoops will afford the greatest head sustain, plus add a degree of ring/brightness to the drum's sound. Cross stick sound is usually bright but somewhat subdued compared to die cast.

Die cast: Heavier construction compared to triple flange, but also sonically dead by comparison. (pick up a triple flange hoop, & a die cast hoop, & strike them. The die cast hoop is pretty dead, the triple flange will ring). More mass = grater dampening of the head sustain, & this equates to a drier sound. The greater mass added to the drum will also serve to focus the drum's sound more. Cross stick sound is generally enhanced, & rimshots much louder than with triple flange hoops.

Heavy ply wood hoops: Usually quite heavy, & also sonically dead. They add mass to the drum, plus dampen both head sustain & shell response. They render a metal drum "mellow", and are good for controlling high overtones in both metal & wood drums. Muted cross stick & rimshot sound compared to metal hoops. You'd expect them to make a drum sound more "woody", but they generally don't. That said, they do have their place in a controlling function.

The above summary is extremely basic, & subject to multiple caveats.

Hope that helps, Andy.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

Andy, follow up question for you.

When people talk about the focusing qualities of Die-cast hoops is that just industry term for reducing overtones or is focusing the sound something entirely different?

About to take all the parts I ordered to our friend Kevin to for him to start on my custom snare build. Sooo excited!
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  #14  
Old 01-25-2013, 08:27 PM
bstan bstan is offline
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

Thanks

I have 2.3 mm triple flanged on the resonant side of my toms for a nice compromise on sustain and focused tuning with perhaps a lean towards sustain and safehoops on the top of the toms (a move I made recently) for protection for my bearings, a great focused sound and its tuning. But I use die cast hoops on my snare. I love the cross stick and rim shots they provide but more importantly I like how well the snare tunes and how well it stays in tune with the die cast hoops. Its all about preference and experiementing.

I was hoping to be able to experiment with what left over pieces I have lying around but I looks like ill need to buy a wood snare shell or sell the wood hoops.

Thanks guys
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  #15  
Old 01-25-2013, 08:41 PM
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

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Originally Posted by Red Menace View Post
Andy, follow up question for you.

When people talk about the focusing qualities of Die-cast hoops is that just industry term for reducing overtones or is focusing the sound something entirely different?

About to take all the parts I ordered to our friend Kevin to for him to start on my custom snare build. Sooo excited!
Please send my fondest regards to one of my favorite nutters ;) ;) ;)

Focus - hmmm, yet another subjective adjective. Essentially, it is the control of overtones, & that "focuses" attention on the fundamental voice of the drum. In detail, it's actually more than that. Additional mass reduces resonance of the instrument, & that in turn diminishes the shell's resonance influence on the resultant sound. The result is less secondary tones (typically lower than the fundamental), & that reduces "body" in the sound, in favor of a more attack orientated sound. Additional mass also shortens the fundamental. The less resonant the shell, the less impact additional hoop mass will make.

I'm actually working through these cumulative affects with a customer wanting an Origin kit right now. He want's a short but pronounced voice to aid definition for faster work, yet requires ultimate character. Those two are generally almost mutually exclusive in the general drum market. It can be achieved, but it requires a knowledge of how these different elements combine to produce a solution. The reason I'm telling you this is that the affects I've mentioned above, & in my previous post, cannot be taken in isolation.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:49 PM
HMNY HMNY is offline
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

Andy,

Thanks for that explanation, much appreciated.
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  #17  
Old 01-30-2013, 02:23 AM
bstan bstan is offline
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

So I found a cheap gretsch catalina avalon snare 14"x6" all the right dimensions for the wood hoops and the right price. I plan on stripping the wrap and finnishing the shell in a darker wood color. Any thoughts on how this will sound?

Ps ill prob put my dw mag throwoff on it and either keep its 20 strand wire or use my 30 strand puresound
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  #18  
Old 01-30-2013, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

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So I found a cheap gretsch catalina avalon snare 14"x6" all the right dimensions for the wood hoops and the right price. I plan on stripping the wrap and finnishing the shell in a darker wood color. Any thoughts on how this will sound?

Ps ill prob put my dw mag throwoff on it and either keep its 20 strand wire or use my 30 strand puresound
What is the shell construction & wood species?
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  #19  
Old 01-30-2013, 08:05 PM
bstan bstan is offline
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

The shell and the hoops are all maple
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  #20  
Old 01-30-2013, 08:07 PM
bstan bstan is offline
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Default Re: Advice on an aluminum snare wood hoops

Also forget the avalon part its a gretsch catalina maple snare. I almost bought an ocdp avalon and I guess I was thinking of that snare when I was writing that post
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