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  #1  
Old 01-27-2013, 02:02 PM
Ianj Ianj is offline
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Default Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

Hi chaps,

Thanks for having me on the forum.

I have been using an old Premier APK for donkey's years now. I play in a heavy rock tribute act (Black Sabbath). Anyway, The kit though great, weighs a ton. So I've been considering a kit with a smaller BD, I'm looking at a 20 x 18 / 20 x 16. However, Due to my budget I was looking at the following secondhand kits: Mapex Saturn, Tama Starclassic BB, Gretsch renown. However, apart from the Saturn, none of them appear to do the smaller BD size. In fact most of them are larger such as 24x18, 22x20 etc. (My premier is a 22x18).

In your experience, am I stuck with a 22x18 for life?

If not and I can go for a small kit / BD which kit do you recommend that's secondhand and decently priced (not the DW collectors, to much money for me)?

The BD sizes I recommend are based on reading discussions and trying them out. However, I'd still value your opinion on how to go forward.

Thx
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

The Renown is available with a 20x16 but it may be a little harder to find than the 22. The shell pack is called "Groove". I have seen a couple of used ones over the years in local listings but they seem to be rare. Would recommend highly if you can find one.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:08 PM
Ianj Ianj is offline
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

Great. I've noticed there are two Renown's that are worth looking at. Thanks for the advice.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:13 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

~Mapex Saturn drums are HEAVY! `~

My 14x18" Saturn bass drum weighs a lot more that my 14x22" Ludwig Club Date bass drum. The other Saturn drums that I have are also heavier than my larger Club Date drums.
My Saturn drums weigh as much as drums that I own with heavy cast hoops even though Saturns have 2.3mm flanged hoops.

The lightest drums that I have ever owned are my Club Dates.
They come with 1.6mm hoops and half the number of lugs. The shells are also on the thin side.
less metal = less weight.

Look for drums with small lugs that are stamped from thin metal and not cast with 1.6mm flanged hoops.
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Last edited by bobdadruma; 01-28-2013 at 02:46 AM.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

How many pieces do you need? Gretsch makes a Renown kit, model RN-F604, with a 20" kick, 10, 12 and 14ft: http://www.gretschdrums.com/?fa=drums#specs

I don't remember ever seeing any of those used around here though. If you're open to other brands, just check the specs on the manufacturer's sites. Considering an 18" bass as well as a 20" would open up even more options for you.

I think the weights of drums/kits should be given as part of the specs.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

I have a friend with a Sonor Jungle kit. It is quite small but it doesn't sound like it, especially if miked.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

I used to own a ddrum Dios maple kit, and those were by far the lightest drums I've ever owned. Significantly lighter than my current Renown kit. They sounded great too, and despite what others have posted here, I experienced no quality issues. They do offer a kit with a 20" kick, though it's a 20x20. Still not all that bad to lug around because they're so light. Also, despite the light weight, the toms and snare come with 2.3mm hoops. Anyway, it's something you might want to consider.
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  #8  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

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Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
How many pieces do you need? Gretsch makes a Renown kit, model RN-F604, with a 20" kick, 10, 12 and 14ft: http://www.gretschdrums.com/?fa=drums#specs
.
I have this kit and love it! Mind you, I've expanded mine a bit but the core kit sounds awesome!
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  #9  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

Since you're in a Black Sabbath tribute band you're probably probably stuck with having to bring large drums. I really can't picture Black Sabbath with a bop kit. Maybe you should look in a different direction. A Rock and Roller cart perhaps.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:14 PM
SirRimshot SirRimshot is offline
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

Why fret over a few pounds?

So much is made from "lugging" gear..............the simple answer is allow yourself more time, i.e commute/unload/setup
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

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Originally Posted by SirRimshot View Post
Why fret over a few pounds?

So much is made from "lugging" gear..............the simple answer is allow yourself more time, i.e commute/unload/setup
I sorta' agree with this. Sometimes you just have to accept the fact that what you do will require some extra lifting. As was stated, you're not playing jazz in a bop trio setting - so playing smaller gear won't help your image any. Find a new way of getting your gear around and plan a little more time so you're not rushing yourself into injury from moving your own gear. Lots of us have rolling carts to move stuff, and even I, split my hardware into two containers: one a tall trap case, and a smaller hardware bag so I'm not lifting the entire 100 pounds at once.

Another thing alot of us do is have a second kit (at least). So depending on what you're doing, you can take the right amount, or smaller. If you only have one big kit, then using it for everything could be a chore if it isn't all needed.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

Over the past several years I have slowly switched to lightweight gear
Drums, Hardware, etc. I have experienced no difference in sound and I am much happier for it. I am middle aged and I just don't have the energy at 2AM to lug a 100 Lb hardware bag around. my hardware bag is now 60 Lb's.
Even my bass player now uses a 200 watt amp head that weighs only about 5 Lb's.
He also has a lightweight cabinet. His rig sounds awesome!

Take advantage of the lightweight gear that is available.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:36 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirRimshot View Post
Why fret over a few pounds?

So much is made from "lugging" gear..............the simple answer is allow yourself more time, i.e commute/unload/setup
I agree, this goes with the territory. It's just something you have to do so why complain? I'm sure that there are plenty of underprivileged drummers who would be happy to have your problems. Get a rolling cart if you must. The hardware bag is by far the heaviest thing I deal with, getting it up steps, but at least it's on wheels. I'm happy to have the opportunity to lug it up steps, because I love playing drums more than almost anything. Those amps are heavy too, it's not like we're the only ones who have weighty stuff to move. And in the grand scheme of things, drums really aren't all that heavy, it's the hardware bag that's the bear. You make it sound like you're a frail old man. With all due respect, I think you should just adjust your attitude to gratitude, sorry. It's less expensive and ultimately better that way.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

A few easier solutions:

1. Why not just get a smaller 20 inch Premier XPK or APK kick drum? Plenty on ebay. Or any 20 bass drum that doesn't match your toms. No audience notices anyway, only other drummers.Toms don't weigh that much.

2. Maybe you use too much hardware? That stuff is the real weight. Can slim down on that in lots of ways, less stands, more attachments, go single braced...etc.
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  #15  
Old 01-27-2013, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

The lightest drums I've owned were the Yamaha Rock Tours. 22x17, 10x7, 12x8, 14x13, 16x15. I could carry my bass drum in a bag thrown over my shoulder with all my toms stacked up in my hands. If I tried to do that with my Saturns (same sizes), I would collapse or separate my shoulder. Or both. The Rock Tours are underrated in my opinion. They would work well for your band.
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  #16  
Old 01-27-2013, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

I try as much to play to the context, not to the weight of what I bring to the gig. I'm not going to play 20 10-12-14 or what have you for a HEAVY ROCK context. On the same token, I'm not bringing 24 14-16-18 to my next coffeehouse jazz gig.

A lot of drummers do use 20s because that's all they have and that's fine, I can't possibly knock that. But I would look to getting drums that are musically appropriate.

You can get lighter hardware, but there's a price to pay for it. I was looking into this myself. I really like the DW 7000 series stands, great looking, functional, and they weigh just right. Problem is they are $25-30 more than the heavier Tama HCB83WN that has been my usual cymbal stand. And weight wise, it is not that much. Plus I can purchase one more Tama stand for every two DW stands I would otherwise buy.

As for lugging 100lb hardware bag, in addition to making sure all my hardware bags have casters, I divide my cymbal arms, tom arms, bells, whistles, in a separate bag than my stands, hi hat, cymbal, and snare. There is one more bag to bring to the gig, yes, but the weight is definitely distributed and I don't have to overload one bag that I can no longer lift into my car.
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  #17  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

I have found that the issue with moving bass drums is more the depth than the diameter. Maybe look for a 22x16 or 22x14 bass drum. Early Sabbath songs were recorded when he was using a four-piece kit. As others have said, hardware can be lightened easily. My hardware box is still the heaviest thing I have to move with my kit. Good luck. Peace and goodwill.
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  #18  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

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Originally Posted by drummaman1 View Post
I try as much to play to the context, not to the weight of what I bring to the gig. I'm not going to play 20 10-12-14 or what have you for a HEAVY ROCK context. On the same token, I'm not bringing 24 14-16-18 to my next coffeehouse jazz gig.

A lot of drummers do use 20s because that's all they have and that's fine, I can't possibly knock that. But I would look to getting drums that are musically appropriate.

You can get lighter hardware, but there's a price to pay for it. I was looking into this myself. I really like the DW 7000 series stands, great looking, functional, and they weigh just right. Problem is they are $25-30 more than the heavier Tama HCB83WN that has been my usual cymbal stand. And weight wise, it is not that much. Plus I can purchase one more Tama stand for every two DW stands I would otherwise buy.

As for lugging 100lb hardware bag, in addition to making sure all my hardware bags have casters, I divide my cymbal arms, tom arms, bells, whistles, in a separate bag than my stands, hi hat, cymbal, and snare. There is one more bag to bring to the gig, yes, but the weight is definitely distributed and I don't have to overload one bag that I can no longer lift into my car.
I believe lighter hardware for drummers is like trying to eat healthy at a restaurant. They just charge you more. Looking at prices for Ludwigs' new Atlas Classic flat based stands, or DW's 6000 series, and those stands are in the upper-$70s range, whereas if you bought the heavier, no-name stuff (or even a name brand), it'll be about $20 less. Retro is in and they're charging you for it. I have no problem with it, especially if people are willing to pay for it, but sometimes you do have to wonder ;)
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:06 AM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post

.... You make it sound like you're a frail old man....


How do you know he isn't?

A frail old man playing Black Sabbath on a bop kit - rock on!


LOL
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

So if you chose to haul lightweight gear then you are a wimp?
Is that the consensus?
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:02 AM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

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So if you chose to haul lightweight gear then you are a wimp?
Is that the consensus?
Sounds like it Bob. Heck, I'll be a wimp. We can be the wimps without back problems from hauling this crap to and from gigs.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:21 AM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

I didn't mean to imply that anyone who uses light hardware is a wimp, not at all. I'm implying that anyone who complains about what they have to do is a wimp. Just shut up and do it and spare everyone. I don't suffer complainers well.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:28 AM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

I went through the same kit "diet" when I hit my 40's. Somewhat random thoughts/opinions:

- Renowns are not particularly light IMHO;
- There are good sounding, light kits to be had. I bought a Taye "Rock Pro" kit for a lighter, gig/beater kit. It was very light and available "normal" rock sizes (as mentioned, this is important for a Sabbath tribute outfit!). Toms/BD sounded great. Forget about snare. Swap out floor tom leg hardware.
- H/w bag/box is the back-breaker item.
- Reduce cymbals (and therefore stands) to a minimum.
- Some single braced h/w is much lighter and can take the punishment. My old Tama stands are a case and point;
- I haven't found a good light HH stand and throne. Lots of pounds there. anyone...?

Good luck! Let us know what you do and how you fare.

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Old 01-28-2013, 03:38 AM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

The OP, Ianj wasn't whining excessively. At least I didn't see it that way.
He is simply looking to make some changes with his kit that he feels will make his life a bit easier.
He has paid his dues as all of us have.
He came here for advice on buying a lighter kit and he asked opinions on some kits that he named.

Some like light gear and some like heavy gear, there is no true right answer.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:12 PM
Ianj Ianj is offline
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

There's some great advice there.. thanks for providing it.

'Larryace' are you not yourself complaining about people complaining! Join the ranks chap.

I went down the single braced route and reduced rack toms to 1 and a floor tom. It all helps.

Buying a cart is a good idea and I'll look one up. Anyone know of a decent collapse-able version?

I've suddenly thought about how crap I might look with a 20x14 in front of me when playing Sabbath... Perhaps I'll stick with the larger size lol.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

I checked these out at NAMM.

http://rocknroller-multicart.myshopify.com/

I don't own one, but for about $130 list price for the smaller model they look like a worthwhile investment. The one one thing I didn't really care for was the solid wheels instead of the pneumatic ones. It may be better in the long run, though. Who wants to repair a flat on their cart at 2:00 am. :)
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

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I checked these out at NAMM.

http://rocknroller-multicart.myshopify.com/

I don't own one, but for about $130 list price for the smaller model they look like a worthwhile investment. The one one thing I didn't really care for was the solid wheels instead of the pneumatic ones. It may be better in the long run, though. Who wants to repair a flat on their cart at 2:00 am. :)
Yes, they're interesting. I've been looking into one of those myself :)
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

I got sick of hauling a giant kit and went to a PDP 805 (18x20, then 12 and 14 toms) in a one up, one down configuration. Two crashes, ride and high hats. Minimal kit and easy to get around. Then again, my band plays origenals and we have a 60's garage rock/altenative/grunge kind of sound.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

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I've suddenly thought about how crap I might look with a 20x14 in front of me when playing Sabbath... Perhaps I'll stick with the larger size lol.
Ok but is it about looks or sound (and your original issue, which was carrying stuff)?
A 20 can kick ass with plenty of punch, esp. with a mic. Some heavy metal drummers use a 20.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:11 AM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

Two words: Yamaha Hipgig.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:22 AM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

I too think you'll need a bit more than 20 inches of kick for a sabbath tribute. I am considering the club date fab 3 for myself. I dont want to ruin the birdseye finish on my classic maples. I play rock/metal and thought it would be the wrong choice but I then was like, why not? I think they'd work quite well.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:30 AM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

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Ok but is it about looks or sound (and your original issue, which was carrying stuff)?
A 20 can kick ass with plenty of punch, esp. with a mic. Some heavy metal drummers use a 20.
I would say it's about both, right? That's why they call it a tribute band, as opposed to just some cover band having to play different artists all night. I saw a tribute Zep band and the drummer was playing some modern Asian kit in the wrong sizes and it lost the vibe for me. I saw another one, that wasn't as good, but we're into the visual as well, and they went over with the crowd way better. Same thing for Beatle bands. At least with a Sabbath band, it doesn't have to be anything specific, just bigger. I think if our OP just went with some vintage classic flat-based stands to use around his larger drums, that would suffice.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:32 AM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

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I too think you'll need a bit more than 20 inches of kick for a sabbath tribute. I am considering the club date fab 3 for myself. I dont want to ruin the birdseye finish on my classic maples. I play rock/metal and thought it would be the wrong choice but I then was like, why not? I think they'd work quite well.
I'm wondering isn't that why you bought the birdseye maples in the first place? To play them out in front of people? I think you do your birdseyes an injustice if you never take them out. No cases for transport?
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:32 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

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Old 01-29-2013, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

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I would say it's about both, right? That's why they call it a tribute band, as opposed to just some cover band having to play different artists all night.
Well, you're right. I missed the key word 'tribute' band.
Yes indeed, he needs twin Tama 24 bass drums, in black, and a single large tom between them.....and more trips to/from the van. Good exercise.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

I switched from a 22" bass drum to an 18", but still it's a pain in the ass to transport. Still, it sounds pretty good. Sometimes if you know how to tweak stuff you might be surprised with the sound you could get.
Here is a small video of a $30 14" floor tom I got on Cragslist and then converted to a bass drum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urpSR...z7_b4S&index=2

Light hardware can be not that sturdy, and it might be risky specially if you are going to be playing Black Sabath, stil these stands might be worth checking out:

http://www.maxwelldrums.com/hamilton...25-p-6503.html
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:25 PM
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Default Re: Fed up lugging around large kit to gigs - advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
~Mapex Saturn drums are HEAVY! `~

My 14x18" Saturn bass drum weighs a lot more that my 14x22" Ludwig Club Date bass drum. The other Saturn drums that I have are also heavier than my larger Club Date drums.
My Saturn drums weigh as much as drums that I own with heavy cast hoops even though Saturns have 2.3mm flanged hoops.

The lightest drums that I have ever owned are my Club Dates.
They come with 1.6mm hoops and half the number of lugs. The shells are also on the thin side.
less metal = less weight.

Look for drums with small lugs that are stamped from thin metal and not cast with 1.6mm flanged hoops.


+1 On this.Firstly,size and weight aren't always relative.Construction and hardware determine a drums weight,and aren't necessarily a function of size.Even in bass drums of the same model,the difference in weight between a 20 and a 22" bass drum is negligable.

The foot print between a 20 and a 22 is only 2 inches.

If you're playing in a Sabbath tribute band,I doubt your setting up on a stage to small,that 2" is making any difference at all,and the weight difference is not a a factor at all.

Steve B
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