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  #1  
Old 01-21-2013, 05:02 PM
Lickety Britches Lickety Britches is offline
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Default The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

I recently started doing this and its very odd because I set the drum in the snare stand, I dont tighten it whatsoever, and the resonance is nonexistent. I kept thinking it was my tuning but i get my friend to lift the drum a couple inches off the stand and it resonates beautifully, set it back in, and it sound as though I have a wrinkle in the head or something, Now I know that the snare stand is said to kill a little resonance but I thought it was due to tightening the stand. also when my friend lifted it off, I had him grab it by the shell to see if it'd make any difference, and it still resonated just fine. its like my tom is allergic to this snare stand. I have an rmv custom set if it makes any difference.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

A lot has to do the the rubber/plastic tips on the basket. Rubber tips seem to work best.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

This thread goes into detail from a few posters about the cause and effect of lost resonance on snare stands and other mounts.

Long story short, all stands are not created equal.
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

I'm with the rubber vs. plastic tips myself. I mount my tom on an old Tama snare stand, and it has the rubber tips. I can't tell a difference between it being on the stand and hanging from the arm.

A good way to test it, I think, would be to tape some gauze, or maybe toilet paper and wrap it around the tips where your drum sits and see if this fixes it.
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

Bull is correct - I just found this out for myself with my Ludwig kit. I was using a PDP snare stand that has plastic tips, and the tom just went completely dead without being tightened. I upgraded to a Yamaha 7-series snare stand that has nice pliable rubber for the basket and the tom sings.

If you're purchasing, it would be good to be able to test first. What's odd about my situation though, is that I have Tama Starclassic 8x12 tom with die cast hoops top and bottom, and that drum sings no matter where I put it (even in the aforementioned PDP snare stand). So in my case it was a combination of the drum and the stand - perhaps my Ludwig 9x13 tom is more sensitive to contact, whereas the Tama isn't.
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Bull is correct - I just found this out for myself with my Ludwig kit. I was using a PDP snare stand that has plastic tips, and the tom just went completely dead without being tightened. I upgraded to a Yamaha 7-series snare stand that has nice pliable rubber for the basket and the tom sings.

If you're purchasing, it would be good to be able to test first. What's odd about my situation though, is that I have Tama Starclassic 8x12 tom with die cast hoops top and bottom, and that drum sings no matter where I put it (even in the aforementioned PDP snare stand). So in my case it was a combination of the drum and the stand - perhaps my Ludwig 9x13 tom is more sensitive to contact, whereas the Tama isn't.
It has to do with the Die Cast hoops I think. Maybe they provide a little more stability on their own. I usually RIMS mount my rack toms, even if I'm only using one. The multiclamp weighs less than the snare stand, and I like the added resonance/reduced clutter.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:04 PM
Lickety Britches Lickety Britches is offline
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

well I'm using a tama roadpro snare stand which has rubber tips so that couldnt be it. could it be because the shells are only 3 ply? maybe theyre more sensitive to contact? but then again.... i had my friend hold it by the shell to test that theory (the same way you'd pick up a baby for example) and it still sang beautifully. I've tried it all. i tried a different room thinking it had something to do with the acoustics, that wasnt it. I'm using emps over ambs, dont feel like that should make a difference but ya never know I guess.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

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Originally Posted by NerfLad View Post
It has to do with the Die Cast hoops I think. Maybe they provide a little more stability on their own. I usually RIMS mount my rack toms, even if I'm only using one. The multiclamp weighs less than the snare stand, and I like the added resonance/reduced clutter.
This would be an option if I was using stands you could actually clamp things to. But being a flat-based stand convert, that's too much to ask of those stands ;) So I save the weight in other areas.
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  #9  
Old 01-21-2013, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lickety Britches View Post
well I'm using a tama roadpro snare stand which has rubber tips so that couldnt be it. could it be because the shells are only 3 ply? maybe theyre more sensitive to contact? but then again.... i had my friend hold it by the shell to test that theory (the same way you'd pick up a baby for example) and it still sang beautifully. I've tried it all. i tried a different room thinking it had something to do with the acoustics, that wasnt it. I'm using emps over ambs, dont feel like that should make a difference but ya never know I guess.
Harryconway needs to chime in here. He has some 3-ply drums too so I'm sure he has a good theory. Harry?
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:09 PM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lickety Britches View Post
well I'm using a tama roadpro snare stand which has rubber tips so that couldnt be it. could it be because the shells are only 3 ply? maybe theyre more sensitive to contact? but then again.... i had my friend hold it by the shell to test that theory (the same way you'd pick up a baby for example) and it still sang beautifully. I've tried it all. i tried a different room thinking it had something to do with the acoustics, that wasnt it. I'm using emps over ambs, dont feel like that should make a difference but ya never know I guess.
nope 3 ply, 6 ply etc. all the same with this effect.
careful not to overtighten your snare std, or tighten at all,
careful how you place the tom in there (some angles work better than others)
I also have 4 snare stds, and find that only two (actually the cheapo Pearl ones) work best for this application.
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  #11  
Old 01-21-2013, 08:17 PM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

Interesting!! never gave this any thought, guess thats something behind the geiger rim??..but I have a 3 ply maple Slingerland tom in "the mother of cheap snare stands" and I just went and check it (its the one in my avatar pic) and I noticed no difference in or out of the stand..now I do have big wood hoops which may effect this.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

I have done the tom-in-snare-stand thing before, but honestly, I don't care for it one bit. I'd much rather mount the tom the way it was designed to be mounted, with the dedicated bracket.

Most of my toms are the old-style Yammie hex-rod-through-shell design, and I honestly don't hear any sustain or resonance problems from them at all.
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  #13  
Old 01-21-2013, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

How is your reso head tuned? If it's tuned JAW, the weight of the tom resting on the bottom rim will impact the reso head. If you're going to use a lower tuning, tune the drum WHILE it's on the stand to get the sound you want.
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  #14  
Old 01-22-2013, 03:56 AM
Lickety Britches Lickety Britches is offline
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

yeah I did all of this, except tuning it in the stand. that makes sense. But i can tell you the snare stand is not tightened at all. its just sitting in the basket. but I will try tuning it in the stand
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  #15  
Old 01-22-2013, 04:15 AM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lickety Britches View Post
I recently started doing this and its very odd because I set the drum in the snare stand, I dont tighten it whatsoever, and the resonance is nonexistent. I kept thinking it was my tuning but i get my friend to lift the drum a couple inches off the stand and it resonates beautifully, set it back in, and it sound as though I have a wrinkle in the head or something, Now I know that the snare stand is said to kill a little resonance but I thought it was due to tightening the stand. also when my friend lifted it off, I had him grab it by the shell to see if it'd make any difference, and it still resonated just fine. its like my tom is allergic to this snare stand. I have an rmv custom set if it makes any difference.
Same thing with me. I put it on a snare stand, then there is no resonance at all. Take it off, put if on cymbal stand, and it resonates perfectly fine. I think im just gunna stick with the mounts.
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  #16  
Old 01-22-2013, 05:16 AM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

I've had good luck if I place it in the stand carefully (like as pictured) and don't tighten the basket too much. The kit I used with this set up was a late 60s 3-ply Ludwig and the stand a Yamaha.

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  #17  
Old 01-22-2013, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

I've played toms mounted on snare drum stands over the years with varied results. Not being able to tighten the snare stand around the hoop of the toms gives me a false sense of security that the drum will fall from the stand if unintentionally knocked by someone or something. I much prefer the tom stands,cymbal stand or bass drum mounts for rack toms.

BTW, I agree that the rubber tips on the stands have less dampening affect on the tom's sound.

Dennis
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  #18  
Old 01-22-2013, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

The snare stand makes all the difference in the world. I too tried a PDP snare stand with the plastic on the basket and it killed everything. Went to a single braced Yamaha 700 series snare stand and it sounds killer.

Also, I don't tighten the basket at all. I allow the rack tom to sit loosely in the basket and it works great.

My experience is that it can work very well, but it may take some experimenting with different stands or whatever. The notion that putting a tom in a snare stand automatically kills the resonance is nonsense IMO.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

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Originally Posted by SgtThump View Post
The snare stand makes all the difference in the world. I too tried a PDP snare stand with the plastic on the basket and it killed everything. Went to a single braced Yamaha 700 series snare stand and it sounds killer.

Also, I don't tighten the basket at all. I allow the rack tom to sit loosely in the basket and it works great.

My experience is that it can work very well, but it may take some experimenting with different stands or whatever. The notion that putting a tom in a snare stand automatically kills the resonance is nonsense IMO.
Good advice. I have put snares and toms in stands for years and never had a problem.

Funny how no one worries about a stand choking their snare, but when it's a tom, suddenly it's an issue.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

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Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
Funny how no one worries about a stand choking their snare, but when it's a tom, suddenly it's an issue.
Indeed. Snare wires and a 3 mil snare side reso make a helluva difference.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: The ole tom in the snare stand discussion.

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Funny how no one worries about a stand choking their snare, but when it's a tom, suddenly it's an issue.
Well, we don't have the same tonal expectations of a snare drum that we have of a tom. The resonant head is much less involved when you put a drum in a basket. This doesn't matter so much on snares since most of the sustain comes from the batter head anyway.
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