Anyone Explain 8th Notes & 16th Notes etc

Witterings

Silver Member
I'm not a great reader so can anyone explain in layman's terms what the difference between say 8th, 16th and 32nd notes is and also what the difference is between say 8th and 16th note triplets ??
The reason I ask I've trying to learn a number of different Gospel Chops and I'm trying to work out how many repetitions of say RLRLKK should be played and over what time period but also would like be able to count them properly to help with my timing.
Any help much appreciated !!!

EDIT:
I thought I'd add to this so people understand a bit more clearly where I'm struggling.
If you were to play 1,2,3,4 over a period of a bar it's quarter notes ie 4 notes over that time period if you then play 1+2+3+4+ it's 8th notes as there's 8 stokes over the same time period but why are 8th note triplets called 8th notes as you have 12 stokes over the same time period and 16th note triplets 24 strokes - - I think it's that that's confusing me and wondering if I'm missing something ?????
 
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You're going to need more than responses at a drum forum for this question. You need to learn note values and how to count them. You can teach yourself, or get a teacher. To get you started.

in 4/4 time: (A bar has 4 beats)

a whole note lasts for 4 beats, or 1 whole note to a bar
a half note lasts for 2 beats, or 2 half notes to a bar
a quarter note lasts for 1 beat, or 4 quarter notes to a bar
an eighth note 1/2 of a beat, or 8 eighth notes to a bar
a 16th note gets 1/4 of a beat, or 16 - 16th notes to a bar
a 32nd note gets 1/8 of a beat, or 32 - 32nd notes to a bar.

Triplets are a whole different feel so I'll stop here. I know this may not help but you have to start somewhere. Get a teacher or absorb info on Google about how to read and count music. Get the text (or find it on the internet) The Tables of Time, by David Stanoch. Best thing I've ever done to correct timing and subdividing issues.
 
Because in 8th note triplets, you squeeze 3 notes in the space where you would usually have 2. So where you would normally have 2 8th notes, you would have 3 8th note triplets. Therefore in a bar of 4/4, you have 8 8th notes, or 12 8th notes triplets. Same with 16th notes, normally you have 16 per bar, but squeezing in 3 16th note triplets (often referred to as sextuplets) in place of 2 16th notes, gives you 24 notes per bar of 4/4.
 
Triplets are a whole different feel so I'll stop here. I know this may not help but you have to start somewhere. Get a teacher or absorb info on Google about how to read and count music. Get the text (or find it on the internet) The Tables of Time, by David Stanoch. Best thing I've ever done to correct timing and subdividing issues.

I think I probably edited as you were doing a reply as I wasn't very clear, I think I get the 1/8th and 16ths it's when it gets to triplets ie 8th note triplets are 4 x 3 = 12 strokes so why aren't they called 12ths would seem much more logical ????
 
I suppose you could think of it that way, eighth note trips as 12th notes... mathematically, it works. By that logic, 16th note trips would be termed 24th notes and 32nd note trips would be termed 48th notes lol. I'm no teacher but if I were, I would try to get you to use the proper terminology.

Triplets can be counted as 1-trip-let 2-trip-let 3-trip-let 4-trip-let.

1 eighth note triplet exactly fits in the space of 2 straight eighth notes. Try playing straight 8s with your hi hat foot while your (alternating) hands are playing 1 triplet, 2 triplet, 3 trip let, 4 trip let on the snare....all while counting 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 out loud. The verbal "and" count of the straight 8's you are doing with your hi hat foot (1 and 2 and..)...lands exactly halfway between the "trip" and "let" syllables. The word "and" does NOT coincide with a triplet stick hit. That may save you some time scratching your head where the "and" falls exactly. This is harder than it sounds to get it exactly right without cheating on the verbal count.
 
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I'm not a great reader so can anyone explain in layman's terms what the difference between say 8th, 16th and 32nd notes

Each value is twice as fast as the previous one. That's the basis of our system for conceiving and notating rhythm- a series of doublings based on the whole note: 1 whole note = 2 half notes = 4 quarter notes = 8 8th notes = 16 16th notes = 32 32nd notes.

I thought I'd add to this so people understand a bit more clearly where I'm struggling.
If you were to play 1,2,3,4 over a period of a bar it's quarter notes ie 4 notes over that time period if you then play 1+2+3+4+ it's 8th notes as there's 8 stokes over the same time period but why are 8th note triplets called 8th notes as you have 12 stokes over the same time period and 16th note triplets 24 strokes - - I think it's that that's confusing me and wondering if I'm missing something ?????

It's just a convention of the system that values off of the standard grid borrow the appearance of, and are referred to by the next lowest standard value; 8th note triplets are called that because it's a grouping of three notes per beat, and the next lowest value is 8th notes- the triplets are a little faster than 8th notes, but not as fast as 16th notes. I'm certain there's a better way of explaining that, but what the hell, I'm on my first cup of coffee here...

I don't know why they're not called 12th notes, 24th notes, or whatever. Standard values are identified by their note heads and by the number of beams/flags they have on them, so calling them 12th/24th notes would necessitate a different type of head, beam and flag. For whatever reason, the people who designed/maintain the standards of the system decided not to do it that way.
 
This

Because in 8th note triplets, you squeeze 3 notes in the space where you would usually have 2. So where you would normally have 2 8th notes, you would have 3 8th note triplets. Therefore in a bar of 4/4, you have 8 8th notes, or 12 8th notes triplets. Same with 16th notes, normally you have 16 per bar, but squeezing in 3 16th note triplets (often referred to as sextuplets) in place of 2 16th notes, gives you 24 notes per bar of 4/4.

and this

I don't know why they're not called 12th notes, 24th notes, or whatever. Standard values are identified by their note heads and by the number of beams/flags they have on them, so calling them 12th/24th notes would necessitate a different type of head, beam and flag. For whatever reason, the people who designed/maintain the standards of the system decided not to do it that way.

pretty much sum it up for me. Notation is notation, just like the English language, there are some weird/confusing rules that don't make sense.
 
At last a reason to prefer the European note naming convention.

Minims, crotchets, quavers and semi-quavers and so on. No risk here of being confused as to what these terms mean. 'Quaver-triplet': what could be clearer than that?
 
At last a reason to prefer the European note naming convention.

Minims, crotchets, quavers and semi-quavers and so on. No risk here of being confused as to what these terms mean. 'Quaver-triplet': what could be clearer than that?

That was a joke, correct?

Yea. hemi-demi-semi-quaver is super unconfusing ;)

You non-americans will do anything to avoid fractions huh? I'm with you on the metric system, but not this :)
 
At last a reason to prefer the European note naming convention.

Minims, crotchets, quavers and semi-quavers and so on. No risk here of being confused as to what these terms mean. 'Quaver-triplet': what could be clearer than that?

I don't trust those terms. They sound like weapon modes from Star Trek.
 
At last a reason to prefer the European note naming convention.

Minims, crotchets, quavers and semi-quavers and so on. No risk here of being confused as to what these terms mean. 'Quaver-triplet': what could be clearer than that?

In fairness though, I understand the use of the Americanised system. Sixteen sixteenth notes per bar, eight eighth notes per bar. Of course that's redundant in any time sig other than 4/4. Twenty sixteenth notes per bar of 5/4...that's when the European system sort of makes more sense.
 
Who knows why we call things what we call them.

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Gosh, thanks for all the responses, my question kind of appears to put me at relative beginner ish level but I've been playing for many years but it's my quest to take it 2 levels higher that I've realised you need some of the more basic things in place to get to those higher levels.
I've had a couple of beers tonight and will look responses properly tomorrow with a more comprehensive mind but didn't want people to think I was ignoring their replies which are always appreciated.
Cheers to all !!!
 
I must suggest seeking a qualified teacher.

even if I could condense my efforts to understand the basics of rhythmic music theory, I could never meet your needs.

Nor can anyone else here....regardless

Either dedicate yourself to understanding learning theory or pay the cost for education....no freedom in expression...only freedom(at leat so my illusions go)

dont allow any excuse to impede your playing....not even the frustration of realizing the difficulty.
 
Nor can anyone else here....regardless

I totally agree with learning the fundamentals from a competent teacher....absolutely no arguments there.

But I must protest "I could never meet your needs. Nor can anyone else here....regardless"

His question was answered splendidly right here:

Each value is twice as fast as the previous one. That's the basis of our system for conceiving and notating rhythm- a series of doublings based on the whole note: 1 whole note = 2 half notes = 4 quarter notes = 8 8th notes = 16 16th notes = 32 32nd notes.

It's just a convention of the system that values off of the standard grid borrow the appearance of, and are referred to by the next lowest standard value; 8th note triplets are called that because it's a grouping of three notes per beat, and the next lowest value is 8th notes- the triplets are a little faster than 8th notes, but not as fast as 16th notes. I'm certain there's a better way of explaining that, but what the hell, I'm on my first cup of coffee here...

I don't know why they're not called 12th notes, 24th notes, or whatever. Standard values are identified by their note heads and by the number of beams/flags they have on them, so calling them 12th/24th notes would necessitate a different type of head, beam and flag. For whatever reason, the people who designed/maintain the standards of the system decided not to do it that way.
 
A reply I loved reading!

I would suggest that an answer to a question dosent lead the request properly ...in the original question there are so many potential pit falls that I would hate to see someone take this info and run without proper context.

..just my opinion.


Its easy to forget how influenced people can be when seeking this info...


maybe its less obscure to say that "anyone with this question should look deeper than you will find on a chat board"
 
Its easy to forget how influenced people can be when seeking this info...

maybe its less obscure to say that "anyone with this question should look deeper than you will find on a chat board"

I get your broader perspective mate and am certainly inclined to agree. Idenifying "good" information from "bad" information....and even into the relm of "good, but not applicable right now" information, is a minefield for newer or less experienced players. It's always been my biggest issue with a forum environment and why I wholeheartedly support at least 'cutting your teeth' with a dedicated, one-on-one teacher who will tailor to the specific needs of the individual.

I'm glad I discovered these forums as a somewhat experienced player....I find it easy to pick who knows what they're talking about, who is experienced enough to comment on a given topic, who has actually "been there, done that", who is just offering an opinion from a limited playing perspective and ultimately, who is just offering an opinion because they "think", and not because they are actually experienced enough to "know". I'm in a privileged position to be able to filter out what I need and ignore that which I don't.
For a newer player it's not so easy to discern and "information overload" is a very real and dangerous prospect that won't always lead to the most effective result.

So in respect to this one isolated and individual question, I think Todd answered perfectly. But looking at the wider picture, I also very much lean towards your way of thinking. The forums are a great learning aid, but they certainly shouldn't be treated as the 'be all and end all'.......no arguments there. ;-)
 
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