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  #121  
Old 08-30-2011, 05:47 PM
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inneedofgrace inneedofgrace is offline
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

Not to get all analytical, but could it be that some people get high or drink to hide their feelings of inadequacy or low self-esteem, or deal with confidence issues? Years ago when I first started singing karaoke, I had to have a couple drinks to get up the courage to go sing in front of a lot of people. After I got some confidence, I no longer had to drink prior to singing.

I don't drink before or during gigs, but that has nothing to do with confidence or not, it's just that it really messes up my performance and makes me tire out quicker. And I haven't smoked pot since my college days nearly 30 years ago, before I even started playing drums.

I don't know if it is prevalent on the tour scene nowadays, but a lot of the older groups have cleaned their acts up and go drug and alcohol free. Many of them are now very health conscious, work out, and some are even vegetarians. that may be because they can't handle the rigors of touring and partying at the same time, like they did in their 20's.

Are today's big contemporary acts partying like the bands did back in the 60's, 70's and 80's?
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  #122  
Old 08-30-2011, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

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Originally Posted by MattA View Post
I'm along the lines of 'horses for courses'. I know people that need to get high just to feel 'normal'. For them, they usually function better that way.
And that's another aspect of use, being normal. The thing is, Max said "I notice myself being more creative, faster, and on perfect time. I bust out lighting fast double strokes around the toms and sharp off beat snare pattens to perfection" and then, "So does maijuana give all drummers super powers...?"

Smoking for him is not about being normal or maintaining. It's about the altered state, and that's the question: does one actually operate better in an altered state?

Bermuda
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  #123  
Old 08-30-2011, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

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Originally Posted by inneedofgrace View Post
I don't know if it is prevalent on the tour scene nowadays, but a lot of the older groups have cleaned their acts up and go drug and alcohol free. Many of them are now very health conscious, work out, and some are even vegetarians. that may be because they can't handle the rigors of touring and partying at the same time, like they did in their 20's.
Nah, it's because most of them wised-up as they grew up. They (mostly) matured emotionally, and figured out why the excesses weren't beneficial.

I know this discussion isn't about drug or alcohol abuse, but there are some folks here who are more experienced, been there done that, and have a wiser outlook.

Bermuda
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  #124  
Old 08-30-2011, 06:39 PM
Cliff5550 Cliff5550 is offline
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

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Originally Posted by Max Crespo View Post
wow, I really glad there are people on both sides of this and again I love the recording idea and I defiantly plan on going through with it. Keep the comments and ideas coming i'll see if I can post a video of the recording here by the end of the week



thanks for again reading my thread, I was hoping you could clear something up in regards to your post. If me not to be able to take credit would mean that you believe the drug(majiuana) would enhance my playing ability. What I'm getting at is do you believe majiuana is actually providing me with abilities that I don't normally have?

Thanks again
I guess I didn't explain my point as well as I should have.
IF you believe pot, drink or drugs would make you play better (which I don't believe for a minute) then it would be an artificial enhancement. Who wants to be the musician who admits he's not really that talented by babbling out, "Man, I play my best when I'm stoned or drunk." Yeh, that's not the guy I want in my band. Besides that, it's a lie.
I've been playing since the mid-60s. Been there, done that.
I was really kicking a** on stage one night. Doing it all perfectly. I was hot! The band took an early break and told me I was pretty much double timing every song. Another time on stage I kept looking at my kick pedal because I swore the kick head was stretching to the front every time I hammered the pedal. Don't be an idiot. I was there a long time ago.
Anyone who thinks stoned, high, or half-drunk makes them a better drummer is fooling himself.

Last edited by Cliff5550; 08-30-2011 at 06:54 PM.
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  #125  
Old 08-30-2011, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

I really want to see what someone on weed thinks "perfect time" is.
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  #126  
Old 08-30-2011, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

I have never smoked pot but have had a few drinks in my time. I have played behind some pretty good tokers and drinkers in the past few years and none of them were as good as they thought they were when they were high.
One guitar player we had was as good as any one playing guitar today....all the great name players included....until he got high from smoking pot.

He would then start adding little guitar riffs and stuff that just didn't belong in the song we were doing. But he thought he was great!

The places we play? If any of us were to get high or drunk....we would lose the gig.

If I take a drink now....it's at home on my back porch.
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  #127  
Old 08-30-2011, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

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Originally Posted by MSPaintClock View Post
I really want to see what someone on weed thinks "perfect time" is.
Me too! That's why I'm anxious to see Max's video!

But I can't help thinking this is a 'work'. Something funny's gonna happen, I know it.

Bermuda
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  #128  
Old 08-30-2011, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

I'm high without drugs(according to my friends), so I don't need anything. Sure, a couple of beers before the gigs might sound good, but if I drink too much, I feel my timing getting horrible and I can't concentrate keeping it tight. Therefore I never drink more than 1 beer before playing a concert.
I've tried weed 2 times, but it didn't have any noticeable effect on me, so I haven't got any cravings to try more. Certainly not to make me play better.
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  #129  
Old 08-30-2011, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

I don't condone drug use, but there may be a distinction between playing well and being able to creatively write songs when high. I guess that depends on the definition of "creative" and whether you like that kind of music. In the late 60's/early 70's they called it psychadelic music. Many of the bands of that era were heavy drug users, and some relied on drugs to write songs.

There were plenty of songs written in the 60's/70's that made you scratch your head when you read or sing the lyrics. The first thing that came to my mind was "that must have been some good stuff they were on at the time".
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  #130  
Old 08-30-2011, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Me too! That's why I'm anxious to see Max's video!

But I can't help thinking this is a 'work'. Something funny's gonna happen, I know it.

Bermuda
I'm thinking a similar thing Bermuda
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  #131  
Old 08-31-2011, 12:31 AM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

Or maybe Max was serious and after watching the video said to himself..........wow,really?

Steve B
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  #132  
Old 08-31-2011, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

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  #133  
Old 08-31-2011, 01:04 AM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

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Originally Posted by inneedofgrace View Post
there may be a distinction between playing well and being able to creatively write songs when high.
Good point! Playing high or writing something high is a huge difference!
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  #134  
Old 08-31-2011, 01:14 AM
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I really want to see what someone on weed thinks "perfect time" is.
All you have to do is pull a few records from your collection. Bob Marley(most reggae for that matter), Beatles, Stones, Zepp, hendrix, Willie fricken Nelson, floyd, crosby-stills; etc. this list could literally go on forever, and would include a likely majority of the most popular stuff of all time. These aren't just folks who got lucky. These are innovators, game changers, people who make music that moved them, us, and the course of music history.

I'm frankly a bit flabbergasted at how people think this is a big deal and it will mess up your music as a matter of course. I'm not an expert on the subject either,(workin for the man) but at least I'm not one who thinks pot is some super mess you up mind-freak drug. It's not even as intoxicating as alcohol. It shouldn't be illegal, and weather people on this board want to come to grips with it or not, it's a huge part of music and the creativity that has gone into music as we know it today, especially "american" music like jazz, "hip hop/rap" and rock.

Altering your mind, categorically will not make you a better musician. Anyone going down that line of thought is wrong. Altering your mind's normal thought paths might, however make you think about things in a different way which can and does make people more creative and open, beyond that, specifically with pot, it can make things just a bit more fun, both listening and performing music.

I mean, sheesh, people. This is just pot we're talking about here. I've lived in CA almost all my life, and I've grown up knowing that some of the most powerful, influential, hardest working people around me start the evening, or even the day with a toke. Not everyone can handle intoxicants, some folks just have the type of addictive personality which gets them into trouble regardless what their vice of choice is, and it's also important to note the huge difference between responsible use, and abuse of any substance.

I think I'm done here. I haven't had a dog in this fight for a while, since I have to be careful about my intoxications on account of work issues; but all that aside, I'm still not dense enough to deny the role pot had, and has in music.
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  #135  
Old 08-31-2011, 01:16 AM
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Why is there religious spam in a thread that has nothing to do with anyone's god?
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  #136  
Old 08-31-2011, 02:34 AM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

Doc, I agree that it's easy to overstate the effects of pot. It really does depend. My worst playing has been done when I've been straight and depressed, or feeling overawed and unconfident - worse than any time I've smoked.

I've smoked before work a number of times and I find that things usually go more smoothly when I'm fresh. It's a bummer to be mildy pie-eyed and have your boss race up to you with wild eyes saying that the executive need X report NOW! It makes it more difficult.

On the other hand, a few years ago I was struggling with a major report and was stressed because I couldn't figure out how to climb the mountain. I got peeved about it and decided to have a smoke before work - which I hadn't done for years. So I wandered in, sat down quietly at my desk, opened the report template, saw a problem and fixed it. Then I saw another problem and fixed it. It was more like playing a game than working. There were thousands of issues but I didn't bother about that - I just chipped away.

Then it turned out that a few small fixes cleaned up hundreds of related problems that I hadn't noticed. By lunchtime I'd broken the back of the report and it was plain sailing from then on.

The problem I have is it's hard to know when it's going to help and when it's going to hinder. If you're jamming with friends or playing a party it's no biggie, but there are times when the sharpness of straightness is more useful than the blurred "aerial view" of being baked.

Thanks to society's nanny taboos hardly anyone seems to understand the best ways to use it (other than pain and nausea relief). We have drug law where we need drug lore. Understanding.

People use substances with no idea how to really use it - it's like taking aspirin for a stomach ache or a laxative for a headache. The info isn't out there - and all society provides is a big NO! ... even though people have always altered consciousness. Typical pandering to the LCD.

My feeling is that if there's high stakes, urgency or rushing involved then straight is better. If your task is to tease out ideas in a relaxed way then a smoke can be helpful or, at least, fun.
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  #137  
Old 08-31-2011, 03:01 AM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

Britney, Justin Timberlake, and Miley Cyrus's songs were written by writers who were high.


'nuff said.
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  #138  
Old 08-31-2011, 03:06 AM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

What about Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds by The Beatles!!!
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  #139  
Old 08-31-2011, 03:23 AM
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Britney, Justin Timberlake, and Miley Cyrus's songs were written by writers who were high.


'nuff said.
High-paid, that's for sure.
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  #140  
Old 08-31-2011, 02:11 PM
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Britney, Justin Timberlake, and Miley Cyrus's songs were written by writers who were high.
You're joshing us, right? A reefer madness kind of threat like ... if you smoke the evil weed you'll write horrible, horrible songs for people with bad hair.

If not, Jon, I have to ask how you found this out :)
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  #141  
Old 08-31-2011, 02:36 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

It seems only the users are in favor of smoking and playing. I don't think the true professionals are showing up to work high. The LA studios cutting all those movie soundtracks, studios producing pop and country hits, and professional orchestral players. None of the people who make a living playing and getting a real paycheck are showing up to work high. They'd be fired quickly. As it is they have to practice daily to keep their job. How'd they'd survive high I have no idea.
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  #142  
Old 08-31-2011, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

Evan if it is just a club gig. They aren't paying me to drink and get stoned. They are paying me to play. It is no different than any other job.
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  #143  
Old 08-31-2011, 02:54 PM
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Evan if it is just a club gig. They aren't paying me to drink and get stoned. They are paying me to play. It is no different than any other job.
What if it's a freebie? :)
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  #144  
Old 08-31-2011, 03:00 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

The only free gigs that I do are with the Jazz band for charity such as Breast Cancer, etc.
I don't drink at those events. I have enough trouble playing jazz sober! LOL
I treat it as if it was a paying gig.
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  #145  
Old 08-31-2011, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

Apologies for being tardy to this particular party but....

It's all about balance for me. I personally have a pint before a set, and another at the break, interspersed with something high caffiene whilst I'm playing. I have played wasted through drink and I was junk. But enough to settle me in and fix my nerves (not playing nerves I hasten to add, I've been touring since I was 11! - but I suffer with insanse nervous energy issues that make my hands and shoulders shake like I have Parkinson's...)

I personally steer very clear of drugs these days. I have experienced first hand what the effects are on playing in both myself and others.

As I say it's balance. I know a guy who could not play guitar unless he was full to the brim with Miller. Sure he played well, but he was incoherent when speaking to people after a show. Thats career damaging and unacceptable.

I think if a small drink/toke/sniff/whatever genuinely aids your playing, or at least had no negative effects, what's the harm?
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  #146  
Old 08-31-2011, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

but I suffer with insanse nervous energy issues that make my hands and shoulders shake like I have Parkinson's...)

Then why in the world are you taking caffein? It is the opposite of what you need.
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  #147  
Old 08-31-2011, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

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Originally Posted by MSPaintClock View Post
I really want to see what someone on weed thinks "perfect time" is.
Seriously? Checkout about 98% of any reggae band. That shite is rock-steady. Those guys are high as hell. Herb is not like crack. I don't smoke when I play, but I don't think it hinders those who do. Nothing like alcohol. I drink a lot more when I play and I know it makes me sloppy, but I have no problem with folks who smoke when they play.
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  #148  
Old 08-31-2011, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

hey i am still waiting to see this "faster more creative" drum video while stoned...?

Let's put it this way I once saw a very....very...very... well known drummer do a clinic once after looking as though he were on a bender for a week....it was in many ways completely embarassing and obvious that he was "coming down" off something in that situation...spent 5 solid minutes in the middle of a clinic tuning a tom....just imagine 5 solid minutes of "beeeuuuw....beeeeuuuw....beeeeuww" with confused expressions on the audience members faces. He then moved on to flams.."flllap...fllllap"....it was unbearable in spots.
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  #149  
Old 08-31-2011, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
but I suffer with insanse nervous energy issues that make my hands and shoulders shake like I have Parkinson's...)

Then why in the world are you taking caffein? It is the opposite of what you need.
Strangely, caffiene does not make me shake! If anything I'm worse without enough sugars and caffiene in my system.... lucozade keeps me stable!
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  #150  
Old 08-31-2011, 06:15 PM
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Let's put it this way I once saw a very....very...very... well known drummer do a clinic once after looking as though he were on a bender for a week....it was in many ways completely embarassing and obvious that he was "coming down" off something in that situation...spent 5 solid minutes in the middle of a clinic tuning a tom....just imagine 5 solid minutes of "beeeuuuw....beeeeuuuw....beeeeuww" with confused expressions on the audience members faces. He then moved on to flams.."flllap...fllllap"....it was unbearable in spots.
Sounds like a meth-head to me. I've lost friends to that, and it's a bummer.
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  #151  
Old 08-31-2011, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by AJ3000 View Post
Apologies for being tardy to this particular party but....

It's all about balance for me. I personally have a pint before a set, and another at the break, interspersed with something high caffeine whilst I'm playing. I have played wasted through drink and I was junk. But enough to settle me in and fix my nerves (not playing nerves I hasten to add, I've been touring since I was 11! - but I suffer with insanse nervous energy issues that make my hands and shoulders shake like I have Parkinson's...)

I personally steer very clear of drugs these days. I have experienced first hand what the effects are on playing in both myself and others.

As I say it's balance. I know a guy who could not play guitar unless he was full to the brim with Miller. Sure he played well, but he was incoherent when speaking to people after a show. Thats career damaging and unacceptable.

I think if a small drink/toke/sniff/whatever genuinely aids your playing, or at least had no negative effects, what's the harm?
All that you are doing is making a cocktail of drugs that balance each other out.
I used to do this. I would try to find the right combination of Caffeine, Alcohol, Nicotine, or Whatever to balance things out. The problem is that if you add the wrong amount of just one thing it all falls apart! Then you try to fix it by adding more of another thing. See what I mean?
Isn't it easier to just learn how to be yourself and function as yourself?
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  #152  
Old 08-31-2011, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

Speed (playing fast..um, not the drug) is overrated in my opinion. I prefer slow.

Give me a Russ Kunkel anytime.
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  #153  
Old 08-31-2011, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

I like to think I'm neutral on this issue, but as I read this thread I think all the examples people have offered of musicians performing well while under the influence have been front men and/or composers. I do think the role of a drummer is different -- in part, you're there to act as a base and reference for someone else to take off from. So being wildly creative may not be the best goal, unless you're playing improvisation. More likely, you're going to end up overplaying, which is another good way for a drummer to get fired from most groups.

So a lot of times it's fine for a front man to get off the beat, play with the pitch, mess with the harmonies, etc. But if a drummer gets off time or screws up the arrangement, it's a problem -- whether it's caused by chemicals or just poor judgment.

Personally, I've seen too many bandmates over the years get high during a break and come back and make a shambles out of the second set -- no sense of volume, timing, ensemble. How they think they're doing, I don't know but I can tell you it doesn't go over well with audiences or club managements.

For myself, I have enough trouble trying to be a good metronome without artificially raising or lowering my energy level. So I mostly just imbibe water when I'm gigging and the energy that comes from playing does the rest. Don't get me wrong -- I do plenty of improvisation, but I'm still a drummer and I have to make sure that job gets done.
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  #154  
Old 08-31-2011, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
All that you are doing is making a cocktail of drugs that balance each other out.
I used to do this. I would try to find the right combination of Caffeine, Alcohol, Nicotine, or Whatever to balance things out. The problem is that if you add the wrong amount of just one thing it all falls apart! Then you try to fix it by adding more of another thing. See what I mean?
Isn't it easier to just learn how to be yourself and function as yourself?
Appreciate what you're saying, I'm no worse as a drummer with nothing in my system, but I shake when I play (and when I don't). I end up with crippling pains in my arms and chest because the continual shaking combined with 3 hours of drumming destroys my muscles. I find a beer and some Lucozade is enough to keep it at bay, and it better than expensive prescription drugs.... And if I'm having a good day, I sometimes bin the caffiene off (replaced for say water or caffiene free coke) and just have a beer on standby invade the shakes come back.

I would like to point out, for the record, that this is more a medical- based thing than an abuse/addiction thing, so I guess it's a little off topic....
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  #155  
Old 08-31-2011, 06:59 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

I think alcohol is a bigger problem onstage than cannabis. Alcohol is legal and therefore more accepted. Which raises my ire, because it is poisonous. Personally, I don't like to see anyone onstage drinking alcohol. I think to myself.."would you do that at your regular job?" At least put it in a container that doesn't announce it if you must do it. But alcohol, by a huge huge margin, has caused more issues with musicians I've been involved with, than cannabis. No contest. IMO alcohol is much more of a problem drug, in every way.

TBH, if I had to choose between a new band member who drank at gigs and one who toked at gigs, I'd go with the toker. To me that's a no brainer. Alcohol is bad news in my experience. Cannabis in no way creates any of the problems that I've seen alcohol create. It is most definitely the lesser of the 2 evils (by a substantial margin) in my world.
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Old 08-31-2011, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

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Sounds like a meth-head to me. I've lost friends to that, and it's a bummer.
I suspected coke actually.....based on what I had heard in the past.
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Old 08-31-2011, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

Actually drummers can fool with the time a bit when they play....having complete metronomic time is not the only job live....however that is not to say that playing with the time a bit is the same as having bad time....or having bad time and being drunk...

We have all seen it...the guy who plays a fill ending on a crash somewhere around "2+"....and it's not intentional....when this happens often during a gig there is a pretty good chance some alcohol is involved. I have a bass player frined who literally called me to ask abou ta band he was playing in at the time where the drummer was doing just that...he was worried it was HIS fault....I assured him in no way was it his fault the drummer was all over the place and usually liquored up.
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Old 08-31-2011, 08:17 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

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Actually drummers can fool with the time a bit when they play....having complete metronomic time is not the only job live....however that is not to say that playing with the time a bit is the same as having bad time....or having bad time and being drunk...

We have all seen it...the guy who plays a fill ending on a crash somewhere around "2+"....and it's not intentional....when this happens often during a gig there is a pretty good chance some alcohol is involved. I have a bass player frined who literally called me to ask abou ta band he was playing in at the time where the drummer was doing just that...he was worried it was HIS fault....I assured him in no way was it his fault the drummer was all over the place and usually liquored up.
Precisely what happens to me if I party when I play. The timing is the first thing to suffer.
That one measure fill becomes a 3 1/2 beat fill as I stumble through it!

I have had singer/rhythm guitar players who were under the influence come in with the verse while the rest of the band still had four measures to go with the guitar lead.
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Old 08-31-2011, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

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Seriously? Checkout about 98% of any reggae band. That shite is rock-steady. Those guys are high as hell. Herb is not like crack. I don't smoke when I play, but I don't think it hinders those who do. Nothing like alcohol. I drink a lot more when I play and I know it makes me sloppy, but I have no problem with folks who smoke when they play.
Interesting point. Pot often messes with my time. Not always, but since I never know if it will or not, I abstain at gigs. I know that Larry plays good time with smoko The way I see it, once a player's time is ingrained enough they might be able to get away with smoking before playing ... at least for the most part (depends on individual effects).


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I would like to point out, for the record, that this is more a medical- based thing than an abuse/addiction thing, so I guess it's a little off topic....
Far from off topic IMO. Thanks to the media, drug use = drug abuse. If that was true then all drinkers are alcoholic and there would be no such thing as a social drink or a loosener after work. All coffee drinkers would be downing the stuff by the gallonful and shaking rather than having a pick-me-up or a treat coffee.

There is a world of difference between drug use and abuse but the difference is NEVER parsed in public discourse. You can OD on panadeine and water. Or you can use them to advantage. Trouble is, because of all the dumbed down moralistic talk, when people do experiment with drugs (including legal ones) most don't have a clue how to use them sensibly. The just say NO message does more damage than harm, just like prohibition does.
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Old 08-31-2011, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: Drums and Drugs...

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Interesting point. Pot often messes with my time. Not always, but since I never know if it will or not, I abstain at gigs. I know that Larry plays good time with smoko The way I see it, once a player's time is ingrained enough they might be able to get away with smoking before playing ... at least for the most part (depends on individual effects).




Far from off topic IMO. Thanks to the media, drug use = drug abuse. If that was true then all drinkers are alcoholic and there would be no such thing as a social drink or a loosener after work. All coffee drinkers would be downing the stuff by the gallonful and shaking rather than having a pick-me-up or a treat coffee.

There is a world of difference between drug use and abuse but the difference is NEVER parsed in public discourse. You can OD on panadeine and water. Or you can use them to advantage. Trouble is, because of all the dumbed down moralistic talk, when people do experiment with drugs (including legal ones) most don't have a clue how to use them sensibly. The just say NO message does more damage than harm, just like prohibition does.
A good point well made.

As I said before it's about balance and moderation.

Someone who socially drinks away from a kit would probably find that a singular bottle of beer would have no effect on their playing. Same with caffiene, pot, or anything else. It's the 'time and place' rule. There is a time and place to get messy on whatever tickles you, and a time and place to not. As long as you can be professional at all times and it doesnt hinder you at all during a show, where's the harm?
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