How Much Does Character Matter?

Taking a poll of hands.

How much does a musician's character affect your perception of them and their music? Would you still listen to a musician's music if their character were less than savoury?

Personally, it doesn't matter a jot. What about you?

If their character is somewhat shady or suspect or rude, it may turn me off a bit.
I would just as soon listen to the music and not know too much about any of them.

It matters to me. I have left bands in the past because I didn't like the shadiness of this or that character in the band. Also, there ain't no way I would ever buy a Ted Nugent record because I hate his guts and everything he is.

Seems to me that the music is sort of reflection of the person creating it. Granted, I can't always tell by listening to the music who the character is creating it, but once I know who that character is, it can forever taint my view of that artist.

How about Classical composers? Stravinsky was an enormous Monarchist, but that doesn't affect the power of his music. The same can be said for Beethoven's attitude later in his life (which is understandable). If we take it on purely musical terms, it shouldn't affect what you're hearing - unless you are hearing commentary that you don't agree with.

Character matters.

But it does depend on what you mean by "character were less than savoury."

Plenty of musicians have engaged in less than great behavior (drugs, alcohol, sex) but that's not enough of an issue to turn most people off of anyone's music.

Now, if lets say it were true Ozzy killed puppies before every show, you know that would probably turn off most people from listening to his music. I don't go listening to pro-Nazi music, or such.

MikeM said:

It matters to me. I have left bands in the past because I didn't like the shadiness of this or that character in the band. Also, there ain't no way I would ever buy a Ted Nugent record because I hate his guts and everything he is.

Seems to me that the music is sort of reflection of the person creating it. Granted, I can't always tell by listening to the music who the character is creating it, but once I know who that character is, it can forever taint my view of that artist.

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Well said Mike. I see Musicians, Athletes, and Actors, as role models, whether they want to be or not. Especially when they are very popular, and have a huge influence on younger people. If I go to a concert, and the guys on stage are acting like complete a## holes, then I am probably not going to be too interested in their music. Why support bad people, if you have a choice.

MikeM said:

...Also, there ain't no way I would ever buy a Ted Nugent record because I hate his guts and everything he is.

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Nugent aside. He's a right wing nutjob and he makes the world a worse place by living in it.

I really don't give two hoots about a musicians character if I'm not in a band with them. To be honest though I really do think less of a musician if they don't drink. Recovering alcoholics and old timers aside it just strikes me as self absorbed ass-patting... Kind of like Peart's drumming...

I kid... I kid...

The only time I've judged a musicians character, was when Ginger Baker released his outrageous book "Best drummer in the World". I still think he played good in Cream though.

mediocrefunkybeat said:

How about Classical composers?

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That's an excellent point - who will give a rats ass what an a-hole Ted Nugent was 200 years from now (assuming his music survives that long)? The larger point being that the music ultimately gets judged, not the composer, given enough time to pass and ignorance to build.

I don't want to know what an unsavory dude Stravinsky was! Like a lot of people who (wisely, IMO) don't want to meet their heroes for fear of being greatly disappointed. I can totally relate to that phenom.

sticks4drums said:

I see Musicians, Athletes, and Actors, as role models, whether they want to be or not. Especially when they are very popular, and have a huge influence on younger people.

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I think you're right that ultimately they are role models, but that shouldn't hold them to a higher standard in my view. If Mr/Ms. Celeb wants to booze it up, take piles of drugs, chase men/women, and otherwise become tabloid fodder, that's entirely up to them - I don't use words like should or shouldn't do this or that when it come to stuff like that. There should be no requirement to sanitize one's behavior for the youngin's sake for those that achieve fame.

sticks4drums said:

If I go to a concert, and the guys on stage are acting like complete a## holes, then I am probably not going to be too interested in their music. Why support bad people, if you have a choice.

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True that!

Some magnificent musicians have been abysmal human beings. Some musicians are wonderful, decent people and can't groove to save their lives.

When I am consuming music character is a non-issue. When I'd dealing with a person, their music is a non-issue.It's an interesting thing, how much fabulous music has been made by bastards, morons, loons and perverts, though.

It seems that some flaws fatally affect musical ability and some don't. Also, some people develop skills while they have their heads screwed on ... and then later on the bolts holding the head on start loosening ...

I think character matters (a lot, if you're talking about band members). But if I'm listening to a record, it really doesn't matter that much, good music is good music.

Unless the composer is a complete weirdo/freak, in which case i probably wouldn't support him by buying his music. I guess you've got to draw the line somewhere.

SergiuM said:

I guess you've got to draw the line somewhere.

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The only time I've drawn a line was with Gary Glitter. I was a big fan as a child and sometimes I enjoy checking out my old childhood stars on the Tube. It wasn't a conscious decision to boycott, just that now I have a bit of an icky feeling about him after the child sex stuff in the news.

Usually, though, I couldn't care less as a listener. The scene has been so full f maniacs and ratbags that, if I was picky, I'd have to forget about music and take up religion ... and find one without dodginess at the top (which narrows the field down to, like, pretty well nothing

Pollyanna said:

When I am consuming music character is a non-issue. When I'd dealing with a person, their music is a non-issue.

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Nicely put, Pol. Sums up my feelings in a nutshell.

The "role model" debate is an interesting one though and it seems to raise it's head in this country every football season. I see merits on both sides of the argument, but I think personally speaking I'd lean towards the idea that just because one can kick a ball around a paddock, deliver an Oscar winning performance, write a song or strum a guitar, it doesn't automatically elevate them to role model status. These guys and girls are very good at what they do....end of story. Attaching the role model tag purely because their abilities recieve mass exposure just doesn't seem enough for mine. Kids may like to believe their heroes are beyond reproach, but it just ain't so. Kids like to believe in Santa Claus too.

Pocket-full-of-gold said:

Nicely put, Pol. Sums up my feelings in a nutshell.

The "role model" debate is an interesting one though and it seems to raise it's head in this country every football season. I see merits on both sides of the argument, but I think personally speaking I'd lean towards the idea that just because one can kick a ball around a paddock, deliver an Oscar winning performance, write a song or strum a guitar, it doesn't automatically elevate them to role model status. These guys and girls are very good at what they do....end of story. Attaching the role model tag purely because their abilities recieve mass exposure just doesn't seem enough for mine. Kids may like to believe their heroes are beyond reproach, but it just ain't so. Kids like to believe in Santa Claus too.

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But believe they do. Don't fool yourself.

Pollyanna said:

Some magnificent musicians have been abysmal human beings. Some musicians are wonderful, decent people and can't groove to save their lives.

When I am consuming music character is a non-issue. When I'd dealing with a person, their music is a non-issue.

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I agree with this.

I don't listen to Motley Crüe, but that's because I don't like their music, not because the group was notorious for their substance abuse.

I think that if I knew someone in a group and had a beef with them, I might have that little voice in the back of my mind saying 'listening to their music is supporting the behavior I don't like'. At the that point though, I think I'd really have to hate the guy to not listen to music that's of a certain level of quality.

mmmmm. good post, and a paradox fer sure, because character counts alot to me, but sometimes, I really love some song, and find out years later it's some rotten person...luckily I never liked ted nugent ever, so if a grizzy bear eats him really slowly tomorrow, I'll laugh.

Pocket-full-of-gold said:

Nicely put, Pol. Sums up my feelings in a nutshell.

The "role model" debate is an interesting one though and it seems to raise it's head in this country every football season. I see merits on both sides of the argument, but I think personally speaking I'd lean towards the idea that just because one can kick a ball around a paddock, deliver an Oscar winning performance, write a song or strum a guitar, it doesn't automatically elevate them to role model status. These guys and girls are very good at what they do....end of story. Attaching the role model tag purely because their abilities recieve mass exposure just doesn't seem enough for mine. Kids may like to believe their heroes are beyond reproach, but it just ain't so. Kids like to believe in Santa Claus too.

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The 'role model' clause is interesting. There is obviously this debate the second somebody mentions the rich and famous and often the talents have nothing to do with the achievement. Many of those that we look up to have Public Relations staff that want to push an image and depending on the character of that person it can be a very simple or a very difficult job. I believe that Deathmetalconga works in that field, so I'd like to hear what he has to say on that issue.

I find that the best role models are those that are up-front and honest about their own personal issues. One in the news recently is the Cricketer Marcus Trescothick. He was a World-class batsman and played for England for years until he had to retire from touring due to severe depression that had a major impact on his life, family and performance. He recently took part in a Radio programme about depression in sport and (as a severe depressive myself) he spoke honestly and candidly about his struggle with the condition.

That kind of honesty and sincerity is what I look for in a positive role model. Often, if they're a musician then their music can be judged on its sincerity. If I see that, then generally I will have more time for it and it just so happens that sincere music is usually the best music. Sincerity can also apply to negative character traits as well - but the same is true there too.

sticks4drums said:

But believe they do. Don't fool yourself.

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What they believe is not our responsibility though. They have parents to look towards for a role model. An annonymous sportsman, musician, actor or whatever has no obligation towards ensuring that someone elses 10 year old stays on the straight and narrow. I'm not talking about deliberately setting out to corrupt here, but I just don't see why they should be accountable because their actions may shatter the misguided illusions of someone else's kids.

mediocrefunkybeat said:

I find that the best role models are those that are up-front and honest about their own personal issues.

... That kind of honesty and sincerity is what I look for in a positive role model. Often, if they're a musician then their music can be judged on its sincerity. If I see that, then generally I will have more time for it and it just so happens that sincere music is usually the best music. Sincerity can also apply to negative character traits as well - but the same is true there too.

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+1

Young people often deal with major personal issues because they're trying to find their place in a complex world. It's not easy when there's BS going on at home / school / in the 'hood! I was an emotional disaster zone when I was young but, if you take time to think hard about things and you're honest about your strengths and weaknesses and are keen to learn and grow as a human being, then middle age becomes very pleasant. If you wallpaper over the cracks then ... hello mid-life crisis!

In that context, successful people who admit their difficulties help to blow away the fog of fame and help younger people get a glimpse of reality. Goody-two-shoes Mr/Ms Perfect types are inspiring for those not dealing with BS at home/school/the hood (as I mentioned earlier) but no use at all for many kids. The honest, flawed diamonds are the ones who will help there.

In the end, what famous people do is less important than how they are reported. The media turns them into role models - the famous people are just wanting to enjoy their (blessed) lives. Almost magically, the media manages to avoid the scrutiny they apply to famous people, yet their responsibility and role in shaping people's attitudes is far, far greater.

Also, bear in mind that what is reported about famous people is almost never the whole story, just one that editors think will attract readers - and we all know how people stop to see a car crash.

I see a red sports car in twenty years. Oh lordy...