Playing Swing to a Click Track

At first it seemed impossible, but time is time. And after a while it felt right. You just have to relax into it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgiz0...feature=relmfu



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No responses, eh? This has been something that's eluded me for a long time. People say that jazz has to breath, but I say, why can't it breath in perfect time?

What made this tougher was that the bas and drums couldn't push/pull with each other, because, well, first I played bass to a set drum pattern, then played drums once everything was done.

I recommend everyone trying this. It really opened my ears to how time falls and the little inconsistencies that we all get used to, become glaringly obvious. I hear time differently ( and more accurately) now.






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I was going to comment, but to be honest, I feel like I might be a bit biased by your description. As you say, it's really hard to get the feel right when a machine sets an an-wavering click for you...

Being 100% honest about what I heard, it sounded stiff and rushed, certain parts worse than others. The playing and musicianship was top-notch... I just felt that the click made it a bit more sterile than that type of music should probably be.

As I said, though, I wish you hadn't told me that there was a click involved, because I wonder if I would have heard it differently. Probably not, though... There was one part in particular that just sounded a bit un-natural with the snare work. Rushed sounding.
 
I was going to comment, but to be honest, I feel like I might be a bit biased by your description. As you say, it's really hard to get the feel right when a machine sets an an-wavering click for you...

Being 100% honest about what I heard, it sounded stiff and rushed, certain parts worse than others. The playing and musicianship was top-notch... I just felt that the click made it a bit more sterile than that type of music should probably be.

As I said, though, I wish you hadn't told me that there was a click involved, because I wonder if I would have heard it differently. Probably not, though... There was one part in particular that just sounded a bit un-natural with the snare work. Rushed sounding.

That's the thing -- if you tell someone you think you painted the wall a little too dark, they're going to look at it looking for it to be a little too dark! lol

Not sure how the drums were rushed when they were in perfect time though. Sure, a few things were on top of the beat in spots , but if anything that occurs naturally. Not trying to be defensive -- you hear what you hear -- it's all subjective. Just offering different perspectives.
 
That's the thing -- if you tell someone you think you painted the wall a little too dark, they're going to look at it looking for it to be a little too dark! lol

Not sure how the drums were rushed when they were in perfect time though. Sure, a few things were on top of the beat in spots , but if anything that occurs naturally. Not trying to be defensive -- you hear what you hear -- it's all subjective. Just offering different perspectives.

"Perfect" time can easily sound rushed in relation to a song. I didn't say it sounded like you sped up, or wavered in time... I felt that certain parts of the song sounded rushed, especially where the snare was concerned. There really is a reason people generally prefer human time in Jazz. It's part of the expression and the color in the song. There were a few points where it stood out to me in your example here. I think, a lot of times, when you lock to un-naturally perfect click-time you lose (for the most part) real objectivity in those aspects.

I should also note that I have always been very sensitive to machine-like timing in music.(another bias of mine) It often puts me off even in music where most people would prefer metronome accuracy. The actual playing in this example was stellar... Some amazing ride work, and great musicianship all around... It just felt slightly odd to me, and even that was only at certain times when it was more obvious.

Maybe check on another forum, and don't tell them about your use of a click? If you don't mind, I would be interested to see if others hear it as well. The performance itself nearly makes up for any time-rigidity I hear... And might negate it for others who aren't thinking from the same way as I.
 
it didn't really swing that much for me. i think you're a good player but to me it felt more like fusion music. the ride cymbal pattern seemed a little too flat. maybe you could try playing it a little slower?

i practise swing to a click all the time. I think that the trick is to use the click as a guide, not the law. otherwise you end up sounding like a robot.

also as soon as it starts to lose its swing you should bring it back to a slower tempo until it does swing. otherwise you'll have a tendency to flatten out.
 
"Perfect" time can easily sound rushed in relation to a song. I didn't say it sounded like you sped up, or wavered in time... I felt that certain parts of the song sounded rushed, especially where the snare was concerned. There really is a reason people generally prefer human time in Jazz. It's part of the expression and the color in the song.
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First off, thanks. And I wouldn't disagree on the human feel , but since I also played bass, there was no other way. Also, jazz usually isn't recorded like this because there's no need to do so. Then again, a lot of stuff can sound stiff even when played in real time! Just listen to Neil Peart play swing! lol



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There were a few points where it stood out to me in your example here. I think, a lot of times, when you lock to un-naturally perfect click-time you lose (for the most part) real objectivity in those aspects.

I should also note that I have always been very sensitive to machine-like timing in music.(another bias of mine) It often puts me off even in music where most people would prefer metronome accuracy.

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Again, I agree though it's very subjective. Sometimes when playing things that I've been used to doing without perfect time, once it's put to perfect time, it feels stiff. But to the listener, I think perfect time always feels better. Of course, it can't be machine-like precision -- it still has to breath. I always felt Steely Dan sounded a little too "machine like to me. Again, just a perspective.



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The actual playing in this example was stellar... Some amazing ride work, and great musicianship all around... It just felt slightly odd to me, and even that was only at certain times when it was more obvious.

Maybe check on another forum, and don't tell them about your use of a click? If you don't mind, I would be interested to see if others hear it as well.

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It's funny -- at first I was promoting the fact that it was done this way but it put a prejudice in some people's mind -- so I stopped and just let the music speak for itself. I've had some reviews of the CD and they've been pretty positive.


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The performance itself nearly makes up for any time-rigidity I hear... And might negate it for others who aren't thinking from the same way as I.

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Here's another track -- much looser in approach, I believe. If you get a chance, check it out and let me know what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQHomzf8JUg

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...............OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 
cp84 said:
it didn't really swing that much for me.

+1

There's nothing particularly bad about it... it's just that the time is virtually straight in some places and it clashes with the instrumental accompaniment, and there are parts where it doesn't sound tight. I'd say it's a very challenging song feel-wise... Tony Williams plays it much faster than this and with tons of drive but it still swings, baby (and it speeds up enormously from start to finish, lol).
 
There's so much going on drum-wise, its honestly overwhelming. Thats just my personal opinion. It has nothing to do with the click. I just am hearing so much going on, it loses my focus. And honestly, to say playing with perfect time? I understand a click was running. But come on man. Perfect? What does that even mean? I think thats bugging me more than anything else. Id actually be interested to hear this WITH the click running in the background so we can know what perfect time is.
 
There's so much going on drum-wise, its honestly overwhelming. Thats just my personal opinion. It has nothing to do with the click. I just am hearing so much going on, it loses my focus. And honestly, to say playing with perfect time? I understand a click was running. But come on man. Perfect? What does that even mean? I think thats bugging me more than anything else. Id actually be interested to hear this WITH the click running in the background so we can know what perfect time is.

I'm not sure what your point is. When is a click audible on a recording? Perfect time means playing with a set tempo that is not wavering, i.e. a click or a drum machine. There can be slight movement, but obviously if it got too "out" it would have to "catch up." What does it matter if every beat is exact?

Playing heavily on the beat is easier than swinging -- for me at least. And I think for most people.
 
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