Question regarding opening and closing the highhats

K

Kakariki

Junior Member
Hey guys,

I've been meaning to ask this for a long time, but I've never really known how to explain it. So, if you close the high hats then lift your foot off very quickly - so your foot is not stopping/slowing the hats from going up in any way - should the hats go up and make a noise? The pedal goes up and stops rather abruptly at the top, causing the pedal to sound out with almost a banging noise (makes the hats ring a little bit too) - completely ruining whatever sound I am going for when playing quickly. Or what should happen in this case? If this is confusing I can make a sound clip (though unsure of where to upload).

As a secondary question - which may make the first irrelevant - when doing quick notes with the foot on the high hat, are you to use your foot on the highhat on the way up to prevent it from making this noise?

If someone has links any videos explaining the technique of using the foot on the high hat, as well as setting it up so it doesn't make this noise I would greatly appreciate it (going above and beyond the call of duty and all that).

thanks!
 
If you played heel down hi hat you could control it better. Lifting your entire foot off the hi hat....I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that probably isn't the best technique...because it's making unwanted sounds on the open. I am assuming that's what you are doing, lifting your foot completely off the pedal. You always want to be in control, and that's not happening if your foot is mid air for a split second. If you lift your foot off the pedal, and let the spring do it's thing unimpeded...you're gonna get that sound. You have to stop it from banging at the end of the open, plain and simple.
 
I think you should provide a sound clip just to be sure.

From what you explain, it sounds like you just haven't developed enough muscle control over the hi-hat. But I'm not sure I understand what you're doing vs. what sound you're trying to achieve, so I could be wrong on that. You should also share what your hi-hat stand is, it might be a hardware issue with your particular model.
 
larryace said:
If you played heel down hi hat you could control it better. Lifting your entire foot off the hi hat....I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that probably isn't the best technique...because it's making unwanted sounds on the open. I am assuming that's what you are doing, lifting your foot completely off the pedal. You always want to be in control, and that's not happening if your foot is mid air for a split second. If you lift your foot off the pedal, and let the spring do it's thing unimpeded...you're gonna get that sound. You have to stop it from banging at the end of the open, plain and simple.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with that. Heel down is definitely the way to go with your hi hat foot. But if it turns out that you are playing heel down when this happens, try positioning the top hi hat cymbal a bit higher on the center rod so that it doesn't "top out" when you let your foot up. Hope this helps.
 
Keep it closed with your foot. Only open it for intentional chicks and accents. For the rest of the song keep time with the heel of your foot if that's where you're keeping time.
 
Some hi hat stands are designed to stop this happening, like the Pearl 2000 series stand. Others have a felt at the bottom (bottom of the rod, where the chain meets the stand) to soften the blow. If it annoys you then just see if you can unscrew the rod and put a small felt in there.
 
There was a video or sound file posted here recently by someone that included this exact sound and it was intentional- some discussion resulted but, of course, I cannot remember what or who posted it. I believe the OP was the drummer in the recording and explained what was being done. The gist was that the hats made the chick and another noise and it sounded good....

Thats really all I have.
 
I'd like to take up the issue of hihat heel down.

That's what I did for 6 years - then when playing a disco song with open hihats on every and beat, made me wonder if my technique could be improved. I mean 4 minutes of this heel down was painful. So by raising my throne I was able to have a mid-heel or floating-heel technique, which was much less tiring.

BUT doing simultaneous hihat and kick beats meant that both feet were in suspension and that screwed-up my playing!!!

So any further discussions on hihat technique would be appreciated.

Davo
 
Davo, I tend to 'swap' my foot between heel-up and heel-down without really thinking. It's just a case of internalising which is most appropriate. It's the same with my right foot on the bass drum too.

If I'm playing heel-down, I'm quite often 'pumping' the time with my heel. It doesn't move the hi hat but it does solidify my time feel. It looks very busy but it works well for me and actually helps me practice my heel-up and heel-down variations, as well as work subtle variations on hi hat opening and closing. To hi hat is really where I 'propel' my playing from - even at low tempos, so the subtle variations make a huge difference to my time feel.
 
Your hihat tension might be too stiff. Most stands have adjustable tension, so you could play around with that and see if it helps.
 
I don't think I've ever taken my foot off the hi-hat pedal completely for anything? (I don't play double bass.) I keep it in contact at all times, even when allow the hi-hats to open. I don't think I ever let it go all the way up to the top while playing.
 
BacteriumFendYoke said:
Davo, I tend to 'swap' my foot between heel-up and heel-down without really thinking. It's just a case of internalising which is most appropriate. It's the same with my right foot on the bass drum too.

If I'm playing heel-down, I'm quite often 'pumping' the time with my heel. It doesn't move the hi hat but it does solidify my time feel. It looks very busy but it works well for me and actually helps me practice my heel-up and heel-down variations, as well as work subtle variations on hi hat opening and closing. To hi hat is really where I 'propel' my playing from - even at low tempos, so the subtle variations make a huge difference to my time feel.
Click to expand...

I'm also working on the heel-pumping-time-keeping technique and it's a good 'un.

It's strange that we don't often talk about hihat technique. Kick drum technique gets all the limelight!

Davo
 
Davo-London said:
I'm also working on the heel-pumping-time-keeping technique and it's a good 'un.

It's strange that we don't often talk about hihat technique. Kick drum technique gets all the limelight!

Davo
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I think the hi hat is the 'forgotten' instrument in the kit and ironically probably the single most important instrument in the development of the modern kit. I've been working on my hi hat foot technique. Control is the key, trying to alter the sound by tiny amounts with my foot as I play. It's actually a lot of fun - if you get it right it really improves your groove and time feel. Overly-choked hats are too often played and actually just the tiniest amount of opening can make all the difference to how a part sounds.
 
I like the pain of heel down. It means my foot is getting stronger and more in control. I actually try and make it burn, so I can do more the next time. That's basically my whole limb philosophy right there. Make it burn. It's like exercising and it has served me quite well. I can play stuff today I couldn't play before because I push the limit.

It might not be for everyone, but I swear by it.
 
Karikiri, if I understand you correctly, the hi-hat pedal is rising so forcefully when you release the pedal that the rod holding the top hi-hat cymbal jolts against the limit of its range and this shock is transferred to the cymbal, causing it to ring out a little every time you release the hi-hat pedal?

Larryace has a point about keeping your foot in contact with the pedal.

From the sound of other posts I may be an oddball here but I play my hi-hat pedal almost exclusively heel-up. When I release the pedal, the ball of my foot stays in contact with it. Actually my hi-hat foot technique is analogous to the kick drum technique of "burying the beater." I keep the pedal "buried" as its default position, and it is only up long enough to allow me to come back down on it when I want to play a chick note with the pedal, and usually never hits the top of its range. I think the weight of my leg rests on it pretty much constantly.

Now, if I want to splash the hi-hat, I'll use my heel to stab the pedal somewhere between the pedal's mid-point and its heel-end hinge, causing the cymbals to contact each other and then release a-la a pair of orchestral crashes. And then if I want to choke the splash I can come down on the pedal with the ball of my foot and go back to my normal position.
 
I play heel down most of the time but for fast eight notes I play toe down. I like to adjust
the hats where in the up position they are far apart, with the lower cymbal tilted and the
top cymbal somewhat loose (so they can slosh around if I want that). When playing, I
dont let the top cymbal go all the way back up....just far enough to open the space between
the cymbals. This way my ankle is in a more relaxed position as my foot is flatter to the ground. (hope this description makes sense)
 
Shirai said:
Karikiri, if I understand you correctly, the hi-hat pedal is rising so forcefully when you release the pedal that the rod holding the top hi-hat cymbal jolts against the limit of its range and this shock is transferred to the cymbal, causing it to ring out a little every time you release the hi-hat pedal?

Larryace has a point about keeping your foot in contact with the pedal.

From the sound of other posts I may be an oddball here but I play my hi-hat pedal almost exclusively heel-up. When I release the pedal, the ball of my foot stays in contact with it. Actually my hi-hat foot technique is analogous to the kick drum technique of "burying the beater." I keep the pedal "buried" as its default position, and it is only up long enough to allow me to come back down on it when I want to play a chick note with the pedal, and usually never hits the top of its range. I think the weight of my leg rests on it pretty much constantly.

Now, if I want to splash the hi-hat, I'll use my heel to stab the pedal somewhere between the pedal's mid-point and its heel-end hinge, causing the cymbals to contact each other and then release a-la a pair of orchestral crashes. And then if I want to choke the splash I can come down on the pedal with the ball of my foot and go back to my normal position.
Click to expand...

I do the same thing!
 
Can you tell if its the top or bottom hat making the sound when you quickly release with your foot?

Check your felts...i've seen many sets without proper felts cushioning the HH...or this happening when hats are very loosely mounted.

I use a mounting nut/felt on top of my lower HH which helps reduce this very thing(my main HH is on a DW Remote)...but I sacrifice a little sustain from my lower hat...not to important to me.

I also learned to use plastic collars to cushion(some) between the top hat and the rod on top and the bottom hat and the main main HH stand "throat" holding the bottom hat.
 
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I tried releasing my hihat pedal today with sudden foot off and there was no mechanical sound at all. Maybe you have a dodgy hihat stand? After all a splash involves releasing the mechanism and taking your foot off.

Davo
 
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