Wfd starts next thursday july 17

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I know there are many who will disagree, but i never see this as exciting. I mean its just playing fast... so? It doesnt show tehnique or skills.... i think people should practice more on sounding good and keeping a good rhythm than speed... i know its very snobbish but i just look at people at enter this as those who spend to much time trying to impress with speed and will be lackluster drummers. Obviously unjustified as look at mike mangini but still just a mindset i have
 
StaggerLee said:
It doesnt show tehnique or skills....
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Actually mate, it shows both......unless the definition of technique and skill have changed in the last 15 minutes.

StaggerLee said:
i think people should practice more on sounding good and keeping a good rhythm than speed
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And if the object of the WFD was a display of rhythm and musicality, then I'd certainly agree with you. But it's not. It's a competition that recognises flat out speed.....nothing more, nothing less. Much in the same way that the object of a 100 metre sprint is not to convey emotion, mood or expression through creative dance til you get to the line, the WFD is simply not designed to portray the traits you mention. But no one ever said it was.

StaggerLee said:
i know its very snobbish but i just look at people at enter this as those who spend to much time trying to impress with speed and will be lackluster drummers. Obviously unjustified as look at mike mangini but still just a mindset i have
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There's so many of them that make a living from playing music though, Stagger. Mangini as you've noted. Matt Smith. Tim Waterson et al all have great careers driving bands and making music. It's not speed that defines them, that's just something they do for a bit of fun. At the top level, I don't think entering a competition is mutually exclusive to musical creativity or expression at all. These guys prove that they've invested as much time "practising more on sounding good and keeping a good rhythm" as they have on going fast. If they hadn't then would they be working as much as they do?

Sure, some kids get lost on their quest for all out speed along the way. There are one or two on this forum in fact, but the majority of top WFD competitors see it for what it is. A bit of harmless fun that has no bearing or reflection on their ability to create music.
 
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The WFD is as volatile a thread as the chops vs groove fiasco. So polarizing. There's almost an animosity towards it by a significant number of people it seems. I have no clue why. It offends a certain faction. It's really hard to do over 1000 single strokes a minute. Whats the mark at now, 1208? Yikes. I would love to hear that on a snare drum. I want to see how fast they can do it on a real snare drum. It would have to knock it back a hundred or so what do you think?
 
larryace said:
The WFD is as volatile a thread as the chops vs groove fiasco. So polarizing. There's almost an animosity towards it by a significant number of people it seems. I have no clue why. It offends a certain faction. It's really hard to do over 1000 single strokes a minute. Whats the mark at now, 1208? Yikes. I would love to hear that on a snare drum. I want to see how fast they can do it on a real snare drum. It would have to knock it back a hundred or so what do you think?
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No, not at all. Mangini's technique specifically does not rely on rebound at all. He demonstrated it to me on a leather jacket. He uses it all the time on records for one handed 16th note ride patterns (above 160 BPM!)

Most of the guys that spew an irrational level of hate on the WFD do not have serious chops. There, I said it. I'm not talking about people that find it boring or just aren't into it. I mean those guys who froth at the mouth about it. Maybe it's an overcompensation...

Jeez, I remember Matt Smith getting his life threatened on another forum over this stuff. It was a credible enough threat to cause concern. You are definitely right about this being a polarizing issue.
 
Jeff Almeyda said:
No, not at all. Mangini's technique specifically does not rely on rebound at all. He demonstrated it to me on a leather jacket. He uses it all the time on records for one handed 16th note ride patterns (above 160 BPM!)
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While I see your point, he could do it on a pillow, I would think that the drumhead rebounding back might alter things a bit. I'd like to ask him. Mike doesn't rely on rebound, but the drum will rebound. It's not like a pad either. It's not consistent. You've seen those slo mo videos of a snare drumhead flapping as it reacts to a strike. No other surface reacts quite like a 2 headed drum. He's moving so fast that it probably doesn't matter. I just never heard those speeds on a snare drum and am curious to hear what it would sound like.
 
I wish I could do some of that really fast stuff. I think my genetics keep me from doing it. But there are some amazing speed demons out there. Props to them!
 
StaggerLee said:
I know there are many who will disagree, but i never see this as exciting. I mean its just playing fast... so? It doesnt show tehnique or skills.... i think people should practice more on sounding good and keeping a good rhythm than speed... i know its very snobbish but i just look at people at enter this as those who spend to much time trying to impress with speed and will be lackluster drummers. Obviously unjustified as look at mike mangini but still just a mindset i have
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I used to think that those 'speed people' were hopeless at grooving but that's not always the case.

I'm like Bo, I don't think I have it in me to reach those speeds but luckily I'm not that interested anyway.
 
Mangini is a monster drummer but his WFD thing looked odd and not drumming like at all. His arms were fully extended and his fingers were fluttering along. more like worlds fastest finger tapping.
 
Just briefly want to state thanks everyone for not having a go at me or attacking me etc for stating a view, just goes to show how great this forum is. As clearly shown i dont have a hate for it, im just not interested and have a view on it. I must admit i have no idea who matt smith or any of the other drummers are but i shall check them out, but i find it hard to watch also.... its just someone playing so fast that it loses all definition and comes out as just a solid note... i mean where is the musicality in that? I will also add that my experience for speed dedicated drummers comes from years of secondary school, college and university when the speed drummers cant even swing at 5/4 or hold down a straight four to the floor beat for more than 10 seconds...
 
Hi Everyone, great to see some good ole familiar 'faces' in here. First as always, I want to thank Bernhard, DogBreath, NUTTA JASON and all the others that were willing to give Drumometer and WFD a fair shake back in the day. Many of you may not realize that WFD is starting it's 15th year Anniversary! Many said it was going to be a fad much like the 'Hula Hoop'! Well so far that is about the only thing 'they' have been right about......

On a more serious note, because of the kindness and fairness this site has given us along with 15 years of education and awareness we have been able to break through multiple barriers. Through education @ WFD Events we have been able to spread the mission statement that ‘Speed’ on it's own does not exist. There is no 'Speed for Speed's SAKE'....‘Speed’ is a derivative and mere result of technique. A bullet just doesn't suddenly ‘speed’ through the air. It must be technically or mechanically propelled by some means.......

As far as "can WFD participants play music?" Well sure but you decide ok? Here's WFD Champ Tom 'tommy gun' Grosset World Record of 1208 singles in 60 seconds. (note only two humans have ever broken 1200 barrier at WFD Finals) see this record at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9FrW-Wr-ds

Now here's Tom playing music at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLqXXD32M_A
As a note the composer of 'Man of Steel' Hans Zimmer liked what Tom did so much Hans posted it at both his personal FaceBook and Twitter accounts........

Anyway there's 1000's of these great examples out there. Bottom Line: "If someone can't play drums it's NOT because of WFD".....

At some point one can stop defending their work because the work matures and starts defending it's creator......However, It is only through our commitment to education and our youth that we stay in this battle to enlighten and entertain......

In closing: Thanks to all the supporters and haters for it would have been a different journey without both of you. Thanks so much again to Bernhard and the great staff here at DW. Bart Elliott thanks for covering WFD World Finals 2014 for everyone to see. Hope to see many of you @ WFD 2014.

And Dan, YES, MAY THE FASTEST DRUMMER WIN!!!!!!!!
 
I went to Summer NAMM last year and decided to check out the WFD event. It was amazing to be there and watch Tom Grosset beat the World Record. The crowd went nuts.

Now, is this drumming? I say yes. All the competitors are drummers first and foremost. WFD is just another part of drumming, being that it is competitive. You are sitting on a drum throne, using drum sticks, performing a single stroke roll which is a drum rudiment. The Drumometer is recording the strokes.

Bottom line, the WFD event brings drummers and drumming to the forefront, and out from the back of a stage. It forms a camaraderie amongst drummers... Now that is music to my ears!

Drum on brothers and sisters!
 
I quit worrying about the WFD after I broke the records at the Big Beat STL and then again in person at Boo McAfee's goat farm. He even out the belt in my hands, had a photo op, everything. It was all a joke ultimately as they offered me my own category instead of ranking me fair and square in the single stroke rankings (which of course I was doing). They even changed the official rules to ban all forms of moeller motions because of me. The whole promotion is a sham and Dan here knows it. -Zac Sullivan
 
thatoneguy said:
I quit worrying about the WFD after I broke the records at the Big Beat STL and then again in person at Boo McAfee's goat farm. He even out the belt in my hands, had a photo op, everything. It was all a joke ultimately as they offered me my own category instead of ranking me fair and square in the single stroke rankings (which of course I was doing). They even changed the official rules to ban all forms of moeller motions because of me. The whole promotion is a sham and Dan here knows it. -Zac Sullivan
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Don't know the back story. Just checking out some of your vids now. I take it the technique is not recognised, yeah? Which hand do they have a problem with, right or left?
 
Pocket-full-of-gold said:
Don't know the back story. Just checking out some of your vids now. I take it the technique is not recognised, yeah? Which hand do they have a problem with, right or left?
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I think there was some issue with what they determined to be a "compound technique" which would be anything that is not a single stroke roll.

Here is an old thread that we both chimed in on http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69792 notice that he never did address both my question and my praise of his technique... I thought that name looked familiar.
 
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