Neil Peart

the skin man said:
No, in fact, I think that it what makes some drummers really good: they know when to keep things simple or they are able to do something that is different, but still simple. My point is that a huge amount of what Neil Peart does is basic or at least basic for someone who has gone to music school and when he does do stuff that is not basic, it is not something that is totally beyond the reach of large number of other professional drummers. Maybe I shouldn't type this stuff because DogBreath is going to start barking at me again, but my point is not that he is not a great drummer. I think he is a great drummer. But when people place him on some higher plane, write things like "NEIL PEART IS GOD", or say that he is the greatest player in the entire history of the instrument, then they really are distorting the history of the drums and the current state of affairs in drumming. For what it's worth, I don't think anyone said that on this thread: "he is the greatest drummer of all time". But I have heard many people say that and I'm surprized that so many do.

First off let me say I am not saying you are wrong in your opinion. Im trying to understand where you are coming from. Neil was popular in the mid to late 70's and was doing different, interesting and challenging stuff before anybody knew who Weckle, Coliauta or Chambers was. Just because they may have surpassed him in one way shape or form does not mean his is not good at what he does. And if you ask alot of people that you would call better than Neil, I bet Neil was part of their influence while learning to play. And "God", "Greatest ever" and that is all a matter of opinion.
I will always say that Bissonette is my "favorite" because to me, to say he is the best that ever walked the planet is a slap in the face to every incredible drummer out there.
I have stated that many drummers have faster feet, hands and more extreme four way independance than Gregg but thats not the most important thing.
 
Maybe I should change what I said in the first thing I posted. I said I thought 1 in 5 Berklee grads could do everything that Neil Peart could do. I wouldn't be a bit surprized if that many really can play all the stuff that he plays, but I also wouldn't be a bit surprized if they aren't nearly as good at actually coming up with the stuff in the first place. So in that sense they can't do all that he can do because coming up with it in the first place is something that he does. I don't know much about the history of drumming, but again, I'm skeptical when people say that he did stuff in the ' 70's that nobody had done before. A fair amount of what I've heard doesn't sound all that more amazing than things big band drummers did a long time before and didn't Billy Cobham do a bunch of similiar amazing stuff in the ' 70's? Again, big band jazz and what Billy Cobham was doing are not rock, so there is a difference. And I like I said, I can't claim to know a huge amount about the history and development of all that stuff.
 
the skin man said:
Maybe I should change what I said in the first thing I posted. I said I thought 1 in 5 Berklee grads could do everything that Neil Peart could do. I wouldn't be a bit surprized if that many really can play all the stuff that he plays, but I also wouldn't be a bit surprized if they aren't nearly as good at actually coming up with the stuff in the first place. So in that sense they can't do all that he can do because coming up with it in the first place is something that he does. I don't know much about the history of drumming, but again, I'm skeptical when people say that he did stuff in the ' 70's that nobody had done before. A fair amount of what I've heard doesn't sound all that more amazing than things big band drummers did a long time before and didn't Billy Cobham do a bunch of similiar amazing stuff in the ' 70's? Again, big band jazz and what Billy Cobham was doing are not rock, so there is a difference. And I like I said, I can't claim to know a huge amount about the history and development of all that stuff.

Like I said earlier. Compare style w/style. You can't compare Bellson to Grohl. So why compare Big band w/ progressive rock or rock. Cobham did some very cool stuff in the 70. He was was one of the first guys to do a double bass shuffle through a song. But then many years later Alex Van Halen did the same w/ Hot for Teacher. Would you tell any hard, hard rock double bass wizard hes not good because he does not, or can not, play jazz or big band? I think Im going in circles w/this. There are drummers that can do it all. And some that cant, but are Amazing at the style they prefer. If Vinnie or Weckle cant hold a candle to a speed metal drummer ( not my favorite ) would you look down on them?
 
Compare style w/style.

I think to a certain degree you're right on that one. So when people say "Neil Peart is the greatest rock drummer of all time" that has a lot more plausibility than the idea that he is the greatest drummer of all time. What if someone stuck the brain of Chad Wackerman in the body of Neil Peart and had him play in Rush? People might say that the drumming became more complex, but they might also say it didn't fit as well. And there are similiar things in jazz. For example, for example a lot of people say that Dave Weckl's swing feel is the weakest aspect of his playing.
 
the skin man said:
I think to a certain degree you're right on that one. So when people say "Neil Peart is the greatest rock drummer of all time" that has a lot more plausibility than the idea that he is the greatest drummer of all time. What if someone stuck the brain of Chad Wackerman in the body of Neil Peart and had him play in Rush? People might say that the drumming became more complex, but they might also say it didn't fit as well. And there are similiar things in jazz. For example, for example a lot of people say that Dave Weckl's swing feel is the weakest aspect of his playing.

True on the Wackerman idea. But you need to keep in mind the OTHER people in the band. You dont want to play just because you can. In Spirit of Radio the intro Alex does a riff over and over while Neil and Geddy match each other note for note. They play together for the benefit of the song not the benefit of their instrument. To play complex drums you need ( or should ) to play in a complex band so its not all about you.
 
If Vinnie or Weckle cant hold a candle to a speed metal drummer ( not my favorite ) would you look down on them?

I've heard some thrash drummers do some really impressive things with speed and power and precision and I sure wouldn't look down on any other drummer if they were unable to match it if they were good in lots of other ways. I wonder if that's why so many people keep on looking at the Joey Jordinson page on this site - he's like some kind of athlete in that way - I'm not sure, I haven't listened to him. I'd bet Weckl could do all that stuff though. For him it's probably like "well, I just wanted to be able to play with a certain amount of accuracy, with a certain amount of speed, I just wanted to have it in case I need it." That's what he said once in a clinic I saw. Basically, he said he doesn't need all that speed all that often and he demonstrated a bunch of really amazing stuff that didn't hardly use any speed at all and just sounded great, but he likes to have it knowing he can play with a huge amount of speed if he needs to.
 
the skin man said:
I've heard some thrash drummers do some really impressive things with speed and power and precision and I sure wouldn't look down on any other drummer if they were unable to match it if they were good in lots of other ways. I wonder if that's why so many people keep on looking at the Joey Jordinson page on this site - he's like some kind of athlete in that way - I'm not sure, I haven't listened to him. I'd bet Weckl could do all that stuff though. For him it's probably like "well, I just wanted to be able to play with a certain amount of accuracy, with a certain amount of speed, I just wanted to have it in case I need it." That's what he said once in a clinic I saw. Basically, he said he doesn't need all that speed all that often and he demonstrated a bunch of really amazing stuff that didn't hardly use any speed at all and just sounded great, but he likes to have it knowing he can play with a huge amount of speed if he needs to.

I dont know if Weckle can or not. Those guys have very fast feet and even faster hands. All that speed stuff is a whole other animal.
The way you see Neil is the way alot of people see Lars Ulrich. Im not a Lars fan, but people talk alot of crap about him now. 15 to 20 years ago Lars was at the top of his game and was one of the top guys if not the top guy looked at in his style. Now guys have passed him in ability, technique or whatever. And it seems as though he does not get the credit for his playing ability that made us know who he is in the first place. As w/Neil, Im sure the guys that are considered better than Lars were influenced by him.
 
DogBreath said:
I've been a fan of opera my whole life. One of my favorites is The Marriage of Figaro (Le Nozze di Figaro). I’ve listened to it so many times over the years on tape that I know almost every note by heart. One year for my birthday, my girlfriend bought tickets for us to see The Marriage of Figaro at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion is Los Angeles. We were young, and not rich, and we were probably the only couple there who didn't drive up in a luxury car. The place was beautiful, and the seats were great. The lights dimmed, the music started, and I was transported.



The opening scene takes place in the bedroom that will be shared by Figaro and Sussana after their wedding. Figaro is on his knees measuring the space that will be occupied by the nuptial bed. He calls out the numbers "Cinque... dieci.... venti... trenta!" exactly as I had heard them hundreds of times before, and I felt a thrill seeing the expression on his face while the familiar words were called out.



On and on the evening went, all the words exactly as I knew they would be, but now living things; all of the notes perfectly played by the orchestra. When the curtain fell for the last time the crowd was on its feet. This classic piece of musical theater had been executed faultlessly by a group of talented artists who realized that perfection is sometimes best expressed through perfect reproduction.



When I saw Rush in concert many years ago, the songs were performed with amazing precision. I was astounded at how closely the music matched the memories I had of all of times I had listened to the albums and heard the singles on the radio. Many bands riff and vamp. Many bands actually suck live and only achieve greatness through digital manipulation and post-production editing. Lightening, it is said, cannot strike the same place twice. Rush can strike home, with laser-like accuracy, over and over. Not all art is made better through riffing and improv. Some art is perfect just the way it is. I am thankful that Neil Peart has the ability to play my thoughts and memories just the way they are in my mind and heart.
WOW....WISH I COULD WRITE THAT WELL (RIGHT ON)
 
Many bands actually suck live and only achieve greatness through digital manipulation and post-production editing. Lightening, it is said, cannot strike the same place twice. Rush can strike home, with laser-like accuracy, over and over.



Very true. I dont understant why its bad to have an incredible memory to play all their intricate parts exact year after year. I have only seen them live twice and it would suck to start to air drum Neils parts along w/him and have him play something else. Alot of us drummers have memorized his parts so why shouldnt he?
 
neil is an incredible drummer, especially for what he does, the new RUSH replay DVD just got out, i bought it and i loved every second of it... on the "show of hands" dvd he kept at least 35000 people clapping along to him....thats the dream isnt it? thats what every drummer wants to do? neil has lived the dream of every drummer to come before him or after him. granted neil isnt the best funk, or jazz or latin drummer, but he arguably MADE modern rock drumming for years. SOO many greats have been inspired by him, and continue to be inspired. even now at the age of 57 hes making new grooves and new licks that i, or alot of people cant even fathom playing. yet he has always been very humble about it, i read the things he writes up on his website (www.neilpeart.net) and he described going to see roy hanes in concert, with freddie gruber, and greg bissonette, and he honestly said he was humbled to be nest to so many great drummers. even after beign a fore-running star of the Art of drumming for 30 years, he still gets inspired when he sees new drummers, and is practising latin grooves, and such, and i dont doubt that rush's next album will have some amazing licks, and cool grooves many of us will be trying to learn. if you listen to the old stuff with the crazy time signatures and massive fills, and exotic percussion, youll see how meticulously orchestrated all of it is, if you listen to his new stuff, youll heat great foot coordination, and some double bass fills he wouldnt of dremaed of 25 years ago...
rant over...
 
oof. too many pages to take in...


the thing i admire most about neil is his dedication to the craft, and his decision to go back and take lessons. i think that says a lot about someone's humility and sensibility.

i was a rush fanatic way before i even started playing drums. i found their music exciting and distinctive, and i loved that the drums were so integral to the music and so upfront. definitely did my share of airdrumming to a lot of their tunes.

while i enjoyed their live performances [must've seen them at least 25 times], in retrospect, i think they, ehhh... rushed everything. they weren't sloppy, just too rapid-fire. maybe it was the adrenaline.

i completely lost interest in the band after moving pictures. i thought the music was dull and one-dimensional and too smooth and processed-sounding. i hated that geddy changed his singing. i always liked that rush was one of those bands you either loved or hated -- that's a good position to be in!

as for neil's playing... i think it's great in the context of rush. i think sometimes he intellectualizes his playing too much; i'd like to see him just go to town. but i think that's his personality: a little anal, very intelligent, very calculating. with drums, sometimes you need to put passion before intellect, and take some chances.

as for his overall mastery of the drums, i don't think he is as developed as many other players out there. he does his thing, which is great; but there's a lot he can't do, and he admits it. obviously, he can't really play jazz [burning for buddy, anyone?], but he's neil peart, so no one's expecting him to.

i will always admire him for what he contributed to one of the most successful rock bands in history. i love that he made the drummer important. and i appreciate that he lays the 'dumb drummer' stereotype to rest.

but i don't think i'd look to him as the guy that embodies what drumming is about.
 
DogBreath, I wish I'd seen your post sooner. I'm a fan of the Marriage of Figaro ever since I had to learn some of the repetoire a few years ago when I was taking classical singing lessons. Some of the music is just phenomenal. My singing teacher took me specially into the head office at the Royal Academy of Music to see the table on which Mozart wrote the entire opera. It's a beautiful table, with a layer of glass over the top; because somebody had decided to put their cup of tea on it! I felt like I was stepping back and I could imagine Mozart writing the opera by candlelight.

I think, to say the least, you would have found that interesting. The music is just so rich and diverse, the story, witty and comedic and the characters deep and mischevious. There's such humour in the work and such virtuoisity. In performance (except for mine) and in creation.
 
I just went to Rush.com and previewed their new dvd/cd Replayx3. Three previously released dvd (vhs at the time) concerts. One 60 min, 70 min and 90 min. It looks like you can order it w/R30. I think under 60 bucks is pretty good. Anybody have it yet?
 
mikeybbdrummin said:
I just went to Rush.com and previewed their new dvd/cd Replayx3. Three previously released dvd (vhs at the time) concerts. One 60 min, 70 min and 90 min. It looks like you can order it w/R30. I think under 60 bucks is pretty good. Anybody have it yet?

I got last tuesday. Good stuff. I really like "Hold Your Fire" and it has "Turn The Page" live!

The CD has some good stuff on it. But the videos are great.
 
Bonham to the moon said:
Dont get me wrong i do have mad respect for Peart, hes a very talented Drummer. I'm just not into RUSH, mainly because of Geddy Lee
I know this is an older thread but…
When I was 12 years old I could recite every lyric to every Rush song that existed. I could play most of the drums parts, most of the guitar parts and some of the bass parts. I LOVED Rush. But then I grew-up.
Personally, I agree with this and with Stu. I respect Peart and enjoy just about everything he does with Rush but find myself feeling bored with the total lack of spontaneity and “soul”. Plus the music over all, I loved it when I was an adolescent but out grew it in early high school when my interests shifted from chops and grandeur to groove, improvisation and taste.
And those lyrics…just a few days ago I put on Grace Under Pressure and had to laugh…

Memory banks unloading
Bytes break into bits
Unit One's in trouble and it's scared out of its wits

OMG…we MUST go help Unit One!!! Red Alter! Quick, Jones ready the rescue pod, Smitty prepare the rescue suits, Karzowsky, we’ll need three rescue blasters. This in NOT a drill. I repeat, this is NOT a drill.

Seems pretty cheez-ball to me.
 
I've gone back and listened to some of the older stuff, and it's true that nobody can deny that it's really good drumming. It's stuff where he's doing a bunch more than the average drummer would do, but it still fits really well with everything else that's going on. So it doesn't sound like he's overplaying, although maybe in another context doing that much would be overplaying.
 
Definitely my biggest drumming influence! Love his style, the way he plays, everything!
crdn said:
I think everyone would agree that Neil Peart is an amazing musician and has inspired tons of newbies into developing their craft.
Newbies? Not everyone who is inspired by Neil is a newbie. There are professionals, amateurs as well as beginners.

-DM
 
rendezvous_drummer said:
Also the lyrics... i heard that peart writes the lyrics for most songs, dont know if that's totally true or not, but the lyrcis just don't make any sense to me. Look at "spirit of the radio" for example when geddy sings "echo of the sound of salesmen"..............what the hell does that mean? .

It's a take-off on the song "The Sounds of Silence" by Simon and Garfunkel

Sound of Silence final verse goes: "And the words of the prophets were written on the subway halls, tenement halls echo with the Sound of Silence."

Spirit of Radio" And the words of the profits were written on the studio walls , concert halls echo with the sound of salesman."

Makes a little more sense now, huh? Especially when you read the rest of the song's lyrics about the true "spirit of radio".

BTW, I know this post was a few months ago but I didn't see the answer anywhere.
 
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