Our unconscious mind

There's the rub, I believe. Many people can't seem to help taking them to heart, and can't separate the thought from their identity. You know - I had an evil thought, so I must be evil.

I'm not sure if that is a skill everyone can learn despite being difficult, or if some are simply incapable.

I imagine people's ability to control their response to their thoughts would follow a Bell Curve.

All I can say about the mind is that it, like land, sea and space, is a frontier, and like space and sea, it is mostly uncharted. You can see how much we've ventured into outer space. We don't know even half of what the government knows about outer space. I believe the same things are true about the human mind. we are just barely tapping into its regions (I guess that's the right word).

Yes, inner space.

While I love rationality and people like Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins, I'd like to see them talk more about the transformational potentials of the mind and the feats and blunders we can create with the placebo effect, psychosomatic illness, hypnosis and the trance states achieved by tribal people.

"...it's called flow. Our ability to control things and analyze things is in direct opposition to a mantra that I have: Thought is the enemy of flow.

People ask me, “What do you think about when you’re playing?” The answer is basically nothing. Thought happens in a completely different way out of flow. It’s contemplative and analytical and problem solving. In flow, it’s completely different. It’s like a real-time program running in the background that doesn't interfere with what’s going on.

The ability to adapt in a given moment is beyond the scope of another type of focused thought process.” -- Vinnie Colaiuta (from Modern Drummer, Jan 2012)

Great quote! Seems that Vinnie's "beyond the scope" = Hal Galper's "not fast enough".

... I think this is probably what we mean when we talk about "overthinking" something. That's the conscious mind f***ing up the subconscious mind. When the term "choking" is applied to someone botching up a performance in a pressure situation, I think it's the same thing. Learning NOT to let that happen is important to success, I think.

Yes - very much relates to the Vinnie quote.

The conscious mind is an amazing machine to have at our disposal but the bloody manufacturer hid the off switch (it's hard to find reliable Creators these days *sigh*). But we need to turn it off when we perform because real time activity like performance is a job for the unconscious mind / Self 2 / Shadow Self etc. The past and future belong to the conscious and the present belongs to the unconscious.

I would love to be able to switch off at will. To have the faith that I could just let go and it would all just happen thanks to my practice and "muscle memory", the pull of the music around me and my natural expression. But I feel compelled to steer - to get my greasy little hands into the works. Tinker tinker tinker. It's as though I think I'll go off the rails without supervision. So I screw myself up through trying to supervise myself to avoid screwing up. How screwed up is that? lol It's crazy! I'm starting to sound like Larry(ace)! kgveb eariv pHTB TTB b b igsru ghriuh
 
While I love rationality and people like Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins

I luv how the Anti theists carry their banner of rationality like a badge of honor. I would have to disagree as to the rationality of their thinking, but that's another discussion for another thread that probably doesn't belong on this website.
 
I luv how the Anti theists carry their banner of rationality like a badge of honor. I would have to disagree as to the rationality of their thinking, but that's another discussion for another thread that probably doesn't belong on this website.

Bon, their anti religion advocacy is not of great interest to me.

Just that they are high geniuses with 100x times the knowledge I have and I find their talks and writing about their specialities informative and fascinating, eg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1APOxsp1VFw
 
Bon, their anti religion advocacy is not of great interest to me.

Just that they are high geniuses with 100x times the knowledge I have and I find their talks and writing about their specialities informative and fascinating, eg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1APOxsp1VFw
I don't think there's a downside to rationality. We all have a right to our opinions, but they're not all equal. Sometimes, you're confronted with someone who's just much smarter than you, and then you got to bow down to that sh**.
 
...a MTB ride...alternate between "Holy carp, that uphill was hard...I think I'm gonna puke!" to "Ooooohhh....that drop off...I think I'm gonna die!"

Ah, that sounds so familiar. Good to know I’m not the only MTBing drummer. Let’s build them kick drum muscles!
 
Peter Watts wrote a brilliant work of science fiction that’s all about the unconscious mind and how almost everything everybody does is below the level of consciousness.

Of course, that’s not the plot. The story is about first contact (with the weirdest aliens you’ve never imagined), but he’s constantly having the characters discuss what may or may not be consciously controlled.

Absolutely riveting reading if you’re into understanding the stuff we’re chatting about in this thread.

http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight_(Watts_novel)
 

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I'd love to get some Functional Magnetic Resonance Imagery of my brain while im drumming...

...I wonder about the role of selective neural disinhibition(attention) and whether that fovia of supression associated with attention becomes diffuse at times where we transition out of concious control dominated playing.

Anyone working on a psych or medical grad degree considering this?
 
I'm not ignoring your thread Grea, I just don't seem to have the time to get to it, but I will! Cause it's great stuff. Mindbending even.
 
I don't think there's a downside to rationality. We all have a right to our opinions, but they're not all equal. Sometimes, you're confronted with someone who's just much smarter than you, and then you got to bow down to that sh**.

Agreed. They are smarter than anyone I know (and I play in a band with three academics and a lunatic), so I like to hear what they have to say.

Peter Watts wrote a brilliant work of science fiction that’s all about the unconscious mind and how almost everything everybody does is below the level of consciousness.
http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight_(Watts_novel)

Thanks Anduin - psych stuff and fantasy/sci fi - my sweet spot!

...I wonder about the role of selective neural disinhibition (attention) and whether that fovia of supression associated with attention becomes diffuse at times where we transition out of concious control dominated playing.

Anyone working on a psych or medical grad degree considering this?

From experience, on a good day I'm in a flow state with regular interruptions from the conscious mind - sometimes useful, sometimes BS.

At last Last Sunday's gig I caught myself looking out the window as I played (nice day, tree-lined suburban scenery). Meanwhile I wasn't playing inappropriately. When I "came out of it" only our bassist was looking at me. What do do you when caught napping? Smile and reconnect. All these dynamics going on in a split second ... no doubt more.

Meanwhile in that moment at no stage was I focusing on ... tempo, volume, tone production, acoustics, the mix, staying loose, stroke, grip, posture, burying the beater, internal dynamics, supporting the vocalist, locking in with the bass, accenting with the piano, rudiments, looking up at the other players, looking at the audience, putting on a show, stick tricks, picking out one audience member, boogying or rocking out or cruising, adding drama, adding motifs, taking it down, burning, aiming for a Zen state, the Moeller, coordination, the drum kit, heads, pedals, sticks, the inconsistency of Zildjians etc, clarity, keeping up with the tune, reading, transcriptions, faithful cover versions, overplaying, underplaying, staying on the grid, shading, ghosting, rimshots, tuning, stroke placement, accents, arranging, psychic connections, level of complexity or technical advancement, what any drummers in the audience might think ... I could go on ...

The point is I wasn't worrying about ANY of that stuff, though maybe unconsciously. In hindsight, I should have paid more attention to the bassist at the time :)

I'm not ignoring your thread Grea, I just don't seem to have the time to get to it, but I will! Cause it's great stuff. Mindbending even.

No drama, Lar. I sometimes feel obliged to say something on threads where I would have otherwise lurked, because I've commented on so many threads that if I don't comment threads related to my interests then it looks like I'm not supporting the OP. The social dynamics and etiquettes of online interaction are in their infancy.
 
Bon, their anti religion advocacy is not of great interest to me.

Just that they are high geniuses with 100x times the knowledge I have and I find their talks and writing about their specialities informative and fascinating, eg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1APOxsp1VFw

That's cool. I've gotten away from that scene on the net. I've debated many an atheist in the past, but I stay away from debating now. It's no use, and it's meaningless for the most part.

That was an interesting lecture. I actually watched the whole thing. It is amazing how much more compelling the universe is when there are so many knowledgeable people out there discovering the mysteries of life.

But my main interests lie in human behavior now. I take measures to take care of my own mind and keep it as tidy as I can because a mind can be cluttered up with lots of junk too. I speak simply, but there is a lot that I can't explain in simple words. I think maybe developing certain positive behavioral traits may be like keeping the subconscious tidy so that you are not compelled subconsciously to act on behavior that is counter-productive to realizing a developmental evolution within oneself.
 
That's cool. I've gotten away from that scene on the net. I've debated many an atheist in the past, but I stay away from debating now. It's no use, and it's meaningless for the most part.

Ditto. I am agnostic. Even if you accept the string theory multiverse, it doesn't explain the start of the multiverse. I think the current thinking is that it might have all started with a fluctuation in a quantum vacuum, ie. absolutely nothing except potentials.

Weird thing to imagine nothing because it conjured up visions of empty space - except that space is something. Absolutely nothing is as unimaginable as infinity. What a brain bender!

So none of us know enough to believe anything, although there are old myths that seem implausible, eg. http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_myth_gods_index.htmhttp://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_myth_gods_index.htm#g ... unless we engage in useful self-deception so as to access useful placebo effects (mind over matter through concentrated focus that can become available with faith because it reduces doubts and distractions). It can also be helpful socially.

The fact is that we have mind over matter phenomena that we don't really understand but we can still access and use without yet knowing how they work and it seems that some religious techniques provide access to those things.

I take measures to take care of my own mind and keep it as tidy as I can because a mind can be cluttered up with lots of junk too. I speak simply, but there is a lot that I can't explain in simple words. I think maybe developing certain positive behavioral traits may be like keeping the subconscious tidy so that you are not compelled subconsciously to act on behavior that is counter-productive to realizing a developmental evolution within oneself.

Good for you! I wish. My brain is a mess - old unwashed knickers, socks and t-shirts thrown over my memories, rotting apple cores fouling up my perception, splattered bugs hard dried onto the windshield of my mind etc.

I did have a interesting peak experience earlier this year after a period of trying to eliminate words from my thoughts. At the time I'd noticed that my thoughts seemed to all be word-based - not at all visual - just words and the sound of the words in my mind. So I did the meditation technique of gently putting aside any words that popped into my mind to see if I could have (or even notice) wordless thoughts happening in their stead. Felt pretty nice - should get back to that.
 
Meanwhile in that moment at no stage was I focusing on ... tempo, volume, tone production, acoustics, the mix, staying loose, stroke, grip, posture, burying the beater, internal dynamics, supporting the vocalist, locking in with the bass, accenting with the piano, rudiments, looking up at the other players, looking at the audience, putting on a show, stick tricks, picking out one audience member, boogying or rocking out or cruising, adding drama, adding motifs, taking it down, burning, aiming for a Zen state, the Moeller, coordination, the drum kit, heads, pedals, sticks, the inconsistency of Zildjians etc, clarity, keeping up with the tune, reading, transcriptions, faithful cover versions, overplaying, underplaying, staying on the grid, shading, ghosting, rimshots, tuning, stroke placement, accents, arranging, psychic connections, level of complexity or technical advancement, what any drummers in the audience might think ... I could go on ...

.

This really made my morning. I love how wacky you can be at times Grea lol.
 
man what a great thread. non-drumming but makes you play better. Anon La Ply -- love this "Great quote! Seems that Vinnie's "beyond the scope" = Hal Galper's "not fast enough". "

i am connecting the dots this AM. check this life-hacker article i saw & how it relates to intuitive playing.

"Over the course of my life, I’ve come to believe that the best decision maker is your gut/natural instinct. How many times have you disregarded your gut instinct on a decision, only to regret it later? I’ve done this more times than I care to admit. For many years now, I’ve been obsessed with finding a way to make gut decisions at will. "

+ http://lifehacker.com/follow-your-gut-and-make-better-decisions-with-this-sim-1214011055

this actually makes a lot of sense to me esp w/ my research into Galper's performance psychology & techniques. if your intuition is 20,000 times faster than logic AND intuition is built from a lifetime of training & experience THEN it would make sense that "going w/ your gut" vs. logic is always best. wow, AH_HA moment for me.

RE the thread below on high geniuses / intellectuals...Galper mentions this & says they have a very tough time improving / making good musical decisions as they are thinking too much & trying to use logic in the moment of performance (too slow). in one of the videos he says "cant you play dumb?" to a guy who is playing real stiff. i use this w/ my students in some scenarios "play dumb or drunk (a metaphor of course)".
 
This really made my morning. I love how wacky you can be at times Grea lol.

I reckon this one 2 days ago was waaay wackier :)

"I would love to be able to switch off at will. To have the faith that I could just let go and it would all just happen thanks to my practice and "muscle memory", the pull of the music around me and my natural expression. But I feel compelled to steer - to get my greasy little hands into the works. Tinker tinker tinker. It's as though I think I'll go off the rails without supervision. So I screw myself up through trying to supervise myself to avoid screwing up. How screwed up is that? lol It's crazy! I'm starting to sound like Larry(ace)! kgveb eariv pHTB TTB b b igsru ghriuh"

check this life-hacker article i saw & how it relates to intuitive playing.

"Over the course of my life, I’ve come to believe that the best decision maker is your gut/natural instinct. How many times have you disregarded your gut instinct on a decision, only to regret it later? I’ve done this more times than I care to admit. For many years now, I’ve been obsessed with finding a way to make gut decisions at will. "

+ http://lifehacker.com/follow-your-gut-and-make-better-decisions-with-this-sim-1214011055

Glad you could find a practical approach to this, GG! I'll give it a try. Also the playing dumb or "drunk" loosening up trick.

if your intuition is 20,000 times faster than logic AND intuition is built from a lifetime of training & experience THEN it would make sense that "going w/ your gut" vs. logic is always best. wow, AH_HA moment for me.

I sometimes think of my subconscious as "the animal in me" or "my animal side". On the other hand it's also the side of me that seems to do the bulk of the home maintenance and child raising duties and makes all the important decisions flying under the radar ... meanwhile the "human" or "conscious" side calls the shots and hogs all the glory ☯

Kidding aside, this is where I get confused, and maybe a lot of people are - how much to use the conscious and mind and what for? We have this powerful machinery that we're a little afraid of, which is why many people avoid D&M chats like this. "If it ain't broke don't fix it".

Meanwhile, we are always teaching each other how to switch off our conscious minds to better utilise our unconscious mind - music, dance, public speaking, meditation, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance etc.

Yet here is a picture of an absolute master of utilising his or her unconscious mind and, with all due respect, it's not a state I aspire to (yet)

new_lizard_0704_2.jpg
 
I sometimes think of my subconscious as "the animal in me" or "my animal side". On the other hand it's also the side of me that seems to do the bulk of the home maintenance and child raising duties and makes all the important decisions flying under the radar ... meanwhile the "human" or "conscious" side calls the shots and hogs all the glory ☯

I'd like to think that I take every single decisions in my life consciously or by obligations... how the subconscious can adjust to new situations you never experienced? it has already subconsciously lived these moments?

Yet here is a picture of an absolute master of utilising his or her unconscious mind and, with all due respect, it's not a state I aspire to (yet)

new_lizard_0704_2.jpg

What about cockcroaches? :)
 
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