Drum Shields??

As I was scrolling down through this thread, i found it kind of funny that Bermuda -- an Administrator! -- was necroposting...but, that's cool...

Just practicing what many of us preach: do a search! (rather than blindly start a new thread.) I only posted anew because I had a little something to add for future generations. :)

Bermuda
 
In an effort to increase the comedic effect... You could switch to vDrums and play behind the shield ;-)

Yyyyyeah.... we'll leave the comedy to Al, shall we? :)
 
The other thread about quieter drums reminded me of this thread and I wanted to add some comments here. I've been playing at the church I'm at for about 14 years. When I first started playing there they had a shield. The drummer they had before me would break 2B sticks during services, and that room was not very big. After I played there a while they took it down. We moved into a bigger building and the sound company and the "professional sound guy" who was overseeing sound for the church insisted on a shield for the new stage even though we had not been using one and the new stage was half the size of our old sanctuary. We used the shield for a couple of years there. One weekend we were playing after a they had done a series of plays at our church and they left the stage props set up for that weekend to talk about them during the service. There wasn't room to set up the shield around the props so I played without it that weekend. The band loved it. They all talked about how much better the drums sounded. How we were better able to play with more dynamics and groove together because we were able to verbally and non verbally communicate and feed off of each other. That energy translated out to the congregation and they seemed to react better. The worship leader and musical director liked it so much they decided not to put the shield back. The "professional sound guy" threw such a fit over removing the shield, that he ended up quitting. The leadership felt that removing the shield had make things so much better that they let him go instead of putting the shield back. Fast forward a few years, with a new pastor and a new sound company overhauling the system. They wanted a drum shield. According to the sound company, it's "industry standard". Now I'm back to using a shield and using in-ears. At least this time around I have my own mixer back there so I don't have to rely on the half trained sound guys giving me a monitor mix. My own thought about the pros and cons of using the shield.

Pros:
I don't have to worry quite as much about how hard I'm hitting. I can play with a greater dynamic range.

I guess it helps the sound guy. Although, my wife who sings insists that the drums are now louder on stage. I think it's because the shield is focusing all the sound up and back and it's reflecting off the back wall and ceiling.

Cons:
Isolation from the band. I know it's a mental thing, the band members are just as close to me and I can usually see them, but that plastic barrier just seems to separate everyone. Rehearsing is also a problem. When people turn around and start talking off mic, you have no idea whats going on. On a gig like Bermuda with Weird Al where every thing is already rehearsed and you're playing the same thing every show, that would not be such a big deal. Other than not hearing that we are going to repeat the bridge, when we are not playing and just talking and goofing off, you're cut off from the comradery. You're walled off from everybody in you're little cage in the back. During the services, you can't always see even if you keep the shield clean.When the lights come down and the spotlights come on, the glare can keep you from being to see everywhere. Some church drummers have it worse. I know of three churches in the area that put the drums in a room behind the rear wall of the stage and the drummer just has a little window to look out of and see the leader.

The shield makes you play differently. When I'm behind the shield and using in-ears, I don't know how loud to play. I'm used to judging how hard I hit based on the volume of the rest of the band around me. Can I play harder now that I have the shield? Before, when I could barely hear the band, I would just play softer. Now I can just turn up the volume in my in-ears. I try to keep the in-ears as soft as I can so that I don't overplay. But it's so tempting to just crank the volume up in my own mix and rock out. A friend of mine plays at another church that put up an entire isolation booth on stage. Now they want him to hit harder because they can't hear the drums. I now have to rely on the half trained volunteer, plumber by trade, just wants to help out, sound guy to decide where my drums sit in the mix. This brings me to a thought I've had since I've gone back and forth with and without the shield and in-ears. Cymbals. When I was using the shield before I had some thick cymbals. They sounded good to me behind the shield through my in-ears. When I took the shield away and took the in-ears out, I found them too bright and harsh. I went to my K thins. Now that I'm back to the in-ears, I want the heaver cymbals again. My thin Ks that sounded good to my ears, don't sound as good filtered through what are essentially ear plugs. I put more of my overhead mics in my mix, but they still sound thin without enough body. I have read a lot about cymbal bleed into vocal mics. Drummers hit their cymbals too hard. I have a theory that it's because so many drummers are using in-ears and they pick out loud thick cymbals because they sound good through the ear plug like effects of in-ears.

So Bermuda, did you decide to go with the shields this tour? You said that Al's sound guys keep talking about it. What has kept them from going with them? I know this seems like a rant about how I hate shields, but I can be objective about the pros and cons of them. I've used them a lot. If you have questions about what they are like, I would be happy to try and answer them.
 
Either they aren't mic'd or the guy running the board doesn't know how to mix.

I don't believe shields are for cutting the stage volume (well in a way) nor are they to be used to simply quiet a drumset in smaller settings. They should only be used when the sound engineer does not want to hear the acoustic drums in the front of house. They want to mix the drums into the full mix and not be overpowered by the actual acoustic volume coming from the stage. I realize that means that the volume is reduced by using a shield but if you do not have full mics on your drums for mixing then the shield is pointless.
 
I don't believe shields are for cutting the stage volume (well in a way) nor are they to be used to simply quiet a drumset in smaller settings. They should only be used when the sound engineer does not want to hear the acoustic drums in the front of house. They want to mix the drums into the full mix and not be overpowered by the actual acoustic volume coming from the stage. I realize that means that the volume is reduced by using a shield but if you do not have full mics on your drums for mixing then the shield is pointless.

I also want to note that a small venue does indeed require a drummer to play quietly unfortunately. You can't just slap up a shield and play however you want. Just another point towards the fact that shields are for isolation only so the sound engineer can mix properly.
 
I have played behind glass for some years now, at several different churches. I have played unmiked with an open air monitor, and miked with IEMs. It's quite honestly not a bother to me.

Yes, you absolutely need a monitor you can live with, and I recommend IEMs. If your church has Avioms or the like, that's the very best thing you can get. If you are getting a line from the FOH board, you are somewhat at the mercy of the FOH engineer. I would still run it through a small mixer of your own so as to control the volume locally and be able to mute as folks plug in or tune or whatever.

In my current sitch, we have everything but the drums in my IEMs. To avoid overplaying, I have the in-ear console patched into a small mixer, with two overhead mics plugged directly into the mixer to pick up my kit sound, panned left and right appropriately. I can then adjust the kit volume in my in-ears as if I had them running through the mix.

I do not feel any less connected with the band; I can see everyone, everyone can see me onstage if they look, and I'm not there to entertain, I'm there to play music. If someone in the congregation is looking for me, they can see me, but I don't really need to be noticed. (Playing theater all these years has probably helped cut down on my ego as well.)

And I practice dynamics. I will use smaller sticks and tune higher in order to to maximize tone. I use larger, thinner, darker cymbals (including 16" hi-hats) for more blend and less bark in the mix. It sounds great from the audience.

The way I see it, it's my job to drum, and I can do that inside or outside glass. If something else is easier because I'm in the glass, then so be it.
 
I'm late to the party, but, here's two cents:

This is not meant for Bermuda, but rather a response to some of the original comments 3 years ago:

- If a venue has a shield, you have to deal with it. Committing anarchy and pulling it down - aka here as being an ***hole - is not professional. In some music circles, that would pretty much be the last time you played.

- If someone has a regular gig where there isn't a shield yet but there is talk about putting one up, it's time to rush some serious light touch woodshedding to prevent it from happening. Light play can set you free. :)
 
What is the history of drum shields? The first time I saw one was at Musicians Institute back in the early '90s. I was told the the purpose was to allow the sound of the drums to reflect back into the drum mics to make a bigger, brighter sound. It wasn't to quiet them down.

Now, later in life, as an audio engineer, I think that kind of reflection would be bad if you are trying to get a pure, clean sound.

My take on drum shields is that they are often useless. In a church setting, they are used to quiet the drums, but what happens is that the sound waves from the drum set are very clever... they sneak around the shield! Seriously, only the high frequencies get blocked, so what you are left with is muddy, dull noise. You then need to add back the high end with overhead mics. The end result is about the same SPL as without a shield.

Then there's the drum fish tank. Where you put the drummer in a completely enclosed Plexiglas box. It looks absolutely ridiculous!

It does, however, significantly quiet the drums down. The way I see it used in churches and theaters is so that you can create a studio drum sound. I suppose in theater that makes sense. In church, where it's more of a live event, it sounds so artificial that you might as well use V-Drums, or a drum machine.

It's hard to play drums quietly. It takes exceptional skill. But when a skilled drummer plays quietly, the band will sound amazing. (assuming you can get the guitarist to turn down)

Ultimately, perception outweighs reality every time. The perception is that drum shields make drums quiet. In reality, you only lower the overall SPL by a few db.

~Jay
 
Interestingly, my guitarist has built himself a perspex guitar amp shield recently. His valve amp sounds better when its cranked up, so he's made a three sided hinged shield around 3 feet high, then puts a mic on one speaker. It does stop that thin beam of piercing harshness that would normally cut through a small part of the audience. It means everyone else on stage can play softer and be more comfortable. Works well.
 
Since Bermuda did it in 2015, I thought I'd necro this thread myself after using the search function.

I'm in the quest for sound reduction on a budget like everybody else it would seem.

Note, I'm not talking about sound proofing, but just killing the volume by as much as I can.

I noted lots of different viewpoints on those iso booths. I don't intend to use one live, but I'm wondering if it makes a difference in the house?

I have an e-kit, but that isn't the issue. I like to play through my guitar amps from time to time, but when I recently did that I got a noise complaint from my neighbour and a threat that the cops would be called.

All the inputs about mass being needed for sound absorption are well-received. In that regard, I was thinking of using these rubber gym mats for the purpose.

They are about a metre squared and each weigh about 15 kg. I was thinking if I had some kind of enclosure like those iso booths, I could use pedalboard tape to hang them on the plexiglass, then mount the company's own sound absorption stuff on top of them.

These are the rubber mats, they're 15mm thick.

https://homegym.sg/neoflextm-premium-gym-tiles.html

I won't bother using them on the floor, since they would likely just transfer the bass drum pounding. I figured just for use on the walls of whatever enclosure I buy or have built.

Thoughts? It's not my own home, so there's no way I am investing in getting the floor decoupled, etc.
 
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