DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 06-18-2018, 03:07 PM
martianmambo martianmambo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 101
Default At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

I feel like there's a window of coolness for polyrhythms, outside of which they just sound like math and not music. Of course, it's a bit flexible, depending on voicing, tempo, type (4:3, 5:4, etc).

I've listened to drummers and bands playing multiple polyrhythms or weird polyrhythms, such as 5:7 or something ridiculous like that, that work well in the song (Lateralus, for example, has a part that's 5:6). But I've also heard even simple polyrhythms just sound stilted and unmusical.

Generally, I think that polyrhythms sound best when they are phrased in longer metrical units and/or split between band members. So, like, one band member playing in 7/16 and the drummer playing in 5/16 sounds better than the drummer playing both rhythms.

I know this is a very subjective thing to talk about. But I just wanted to get a discussion going about polyrhythms haha.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-18-2018, 03:14 PM
PorkPieGuy's Avatar
PorkPieGuy PorkPieGuy is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,951
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

It all sounds academic to me. A friend of mine calls it "math rock." I don't particularly care for it. Can I play it myself? Nope. Do I care to? Nope.

Whenever I hear something that has crazy polyrhythms in it, this is usually my reaction:

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-18-2018, 03:42 PM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,311
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

It'll always be a taste thing.

I don't much like most "prog" music at all.

I am however sure I could use any rhythmical, melodic or harmonic device in a way I found pleasing and musical.

A lot of the stuff I never got to finish belongs in these categories.
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-18-2018, 03:55 PM
mikyok's Avatar
mikyok mikyok is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Tipton in the mighty Black Country
Posts: 1,515
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

When it becomes the sole purpose of the song. With any odd time signature/polyrhythm it sounds best when you don't really notice it or feel it and then when you count it you're pleasantly surprised. For example the intro to White Room, Solsbury Hill

Listen to Happiness Is A Warm Gun and count the time signature changes, I guarantee you've never noticed a bar of 5/4 in a Beatles song. There's also a polyrhythm 12/8 over 4/4.

Another song with a polyrhythm nobody notices is in Jive Talking - 7/4 over 4/4
__________________
I aint farting on no snare drum
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-18-2018, 04:03 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 19,935
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

My answer to the thread question is that it's an individual line and really can't be quantified easily.

On a very related note, I've just recently been exposed to a poly-metronome. You know the kind where it can play 2 clicks at once, with different click sounds. Very interesting putting 120 over 110 for instance. Some combinations are very inspiring, they form cool rhythms. Some are impossible for me to follow, like 120 over 119. But there are some really cool sounding polys that I never could have come up with on my own.
__________________
Sucking all the fun right out of life...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-18-2018, 05:08 PM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,061
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

For me, it's when the songs don't have a good flow and it gets hard to tell what's going on.

I prefer my prog stuff as subtleties... Like if it takes me 3 listens to notice that a part swapped to 7/8 then I call it genius... If I hear a sudden weird change that takes my head out of it, even if it's mathematically a cool idea, I just can't dig it.

Animals as Leaders, in my opinion are masters at making complex things sound smooth... I listen to that more than any other prog and there's very few instrumental-only bands I can even listen to at all.
__________________
"I always wanted to be remembered for; being honest. Nothing else is worth a damn." - Lemmy
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-18-2018, 05:10 PM
BradGunnerSGT's Avatar
BradGunnerSGT BradGunnerSGT is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 680
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by martianmambo View Post
I feel like there's a window of coolness for polyrhythms, outside of which they just sound like math and not music. Of course, it's a bit flexible, depending on voicing, tempo, type (4:3, 5:4, etc).

I've listened to drummers and bands playing multiple polyrhythms or weird polyrhythms, such as 5:7 or something ridiculous like that, that work well in the song (Lateralus, for example, has a part that's 5:6). But I've also heard even simple polyrhythms just sound stilted and unmusical.

Generally, I think that polyrhythms sound best when they are phrased in longer metrical units and/or split between band members. So, like, one band member playing in 7/16 and the drummer playing in 5/16 sounds better than the drummer playing both rhythms.

I know this is a very subjective thing to talk about. But I just wanted to get a discussion going about polyrhythms haha.
I feel the same. When you can't tell that the band is playing polyrhythmically, that's when it works the best. In my opinion Tool, Opeth (especially the last couple of albums), Steven Wilson / Porcupine Tree all do this well. They actually have a groove, even when playing complex parts against one another.

There are a lot of very well known prog bands that I can appreciate on a technical level, but I just can't listen to them for fun.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-18-2018, 05:19 PM
hawksmoor's Avatar
hawksmoor hawksmoor is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: sarf London
Posts: 164
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikyok View Post
When it becomes the sole purpose of the song. With any odd time signature/polyrhythm it sounds best when you don't really notice it or feel it and then when you count it you're pleasantly surprised. For example the intro to White Room, Solsbury Hill

Listen to Happiness Is A Warm Gun and count the time signature changes, I guarantee you've never noticed a bar of 5/4 in a Beatles song. There's also a polyrhythm 12/8 over 4/4.

Another song with a polyrhythm nobody notices is in Jive Talking - 7/4 over 4/4
Is the 7/4 over 4/4 in the instrumental bridge of Jive Talking?
__________________
Today's special is Memphis soul stew
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-18-2018, 05:31 PM
BruceW BruceW is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 249
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Money by Pink Floyd is one that you know its in a different time signature but it works so well that its not distracting. The 5/4 bar or two in Barracuda by Heart is another (and aggravating in that I just can't get a feel for it, to play it).
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-18-2018, 05:34 PM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,061
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceW View Post
Money by Pink Floyd is one that you know its in a different time signature but it works so well that its not distracting. The 5/4 bar or two in Barracuda by Heart is another (and aggravating in that I just can't get a feel for it, to play it).
That's not prog... That's just odd numbered time sigs.
__________________
"I always wanted to be remembered for; being honest. Nothing else is worth a damn." - Lemmy
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-18-2018, 05:41 PM
BruceW BruceW is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 249
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
That's not prog... That's just odd numbered time sigs.
Agreed. Just commenting on the time sig portion of the conversation

***edit*** Jive Talking and The Beatkes aren't prog rock, either :)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-18-2018, 05:43 PM
mikyok's Avatar
mikyok mikyok is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Tipton in the mighty Black Country
Posts: 1,515
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawksmoor View Post
Is the 7/4 over 4/4 in the instrumental bridge of Jive Talking?
That's the bit :)

Had to do it for a wedding once and randomly noticed it
__________________
I aint farting on no snare drum
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-18-2018, 05:50 PM
hawksmoor's Avatar
hawksmoor hawksmoor is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: sarf London
Posts: 164
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikyok View Post
That's the bit :)

Had to do it for a wedding once and randomly noticed it
It is an odd choice for a Seventies disco/dance song, but all the more interesting for it.
__________________
Today's special is Memphis soul stew
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-18-2018, 06:16 PM
WhoIsTony?'s Avatar
WhoIsTony? WhoIsTony? is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: the city that never sleeps
Posts: 64
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceW View Post
Money by Pink Floyd is one that you know its in a different time signature but it works so well that its not distracting. The 5/4 bar or two in Barracuda by Heart is another (and aggravating in that I just can't get a feel for it, to play it).
there is a big difference between odd time signatures and odd polyrhythm

you are talking about time signatures
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-18-2018, 06:16 PM
BruceW BruceW is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 249
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
there is a big difference between odd time signatures and odd poly rhythm

you are talking about time signatures
I will gracefully bow out of the conversation and keep reading...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-18-2018, 06:31 PM
alparrott's Avatar
alparrott alparrott is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wenatchee, WA
Posts: 5,995
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

I think there are some common-sense polyrhythms that are very bearable for the lay listener, as it were. Yesterday at church (!) we were doing a lilting 6/8 tune, and I was gently pushing a 4/4 feel under it with ghost notes on the snare; the worship leader on rhythm guitar picked up on it and started emphasizing those figures in his strumming. Rather than stick out, it made the musical tapestry more complex and rich, and filled the space in the song nicely without being jarring.

When it is done for musical reasons like that, and develops organically, it's great and still accessible. When it's done as a deliberate challenge to self ("Let's play 17/8 under 5/4!") rather than for any particular musical reason, it becomes less accessible to listeners. That's not to say it's bad, but I feel at that point it's less about music and more about the technical challenge.
__________________
Al Parrott
"Jus suum cuique"
-------------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-18-2018, 07:36 PM
martianmambo martianmambo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 101
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Great responses, my dudes! Thanks for all your interesting input!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
It all sounds academic to me. A friend of mine calls it "math rock." I don't particularly care for it. Can I play it myself? Nope. Do I care to? Nope.
Hmm... but what about non-Western drumming, like West African drumming or South Indian drumming? Those traditions make use of multi-layered and sometimes pretty complex polyrhythms. Are they "academic"? Even Western art music traditionally uses a 3:2 polyrhythm. Is that "academic"? Polyrhythms are used in all sorts of music, not just math rock... 🤔
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-18-2018, 07:40 PM
martianmambo martianmambo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 101
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikyok View Post
With any odd time signature/polyrhythm it sounds best when you don't really notice it or feel it and then when you count it you're pleasantly surprised.
Yeahhh, that's exactly how I feel too!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-18-2018, 08:00 PM
PorkPieGuy's Avatar
PorkPieGuy PorkPieGuy is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,951
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by martianmambo View Post
Hmm... but what about non-Western drumming, like West African drumming or South Indian drumming? Those traditions make use of multi-layered and sometimes pretty complex polyrhythms. Are they "academic"? Even Western art music traditionally uses a 3:2 polyrhythm. Is that "academic"? Polyrhythms are used in all sorts of music, not just math rock... ��

Overall, I think anything polyrhythmic can be interesting, but I can't sit and listen to it for more than a couple of minutes...whether it's West African drumming or Dream Theater. It's just not my tastes. YMMV.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-18-2018, 08:44 PM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12,797
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Pretty much right when you do one.

You know you’re just here to play Mustang Sally, right?

;)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-18-2018, 08:47 PM
WhoIsTony?'s Avatar
WhoIsTony? WhoIsTony? is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: the city that never sleeps
Posts: 64
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
Overall, I think anything polyrhythmic can be interesting, but I can't sit and listen to it for more than a couple of minutes...whether it's West African drumming or Dream Theater. It's just not my tastes. YMMV.
any music or drum beat beyond something like constant quarter notes being pounded out is littered in polyrhythm

all a polyrhythm is , is more than one rhythm happening simultaneously

you can't really make music at all without polyrhythm ... I guess you can but it would be quite boring

I think what you guys are discussing what I call deviant polyrhythms ...the kind that are designed to distort rhythmic perception by almost creating or implying a modulation ... or disguising the pulse.

less like say ... the polyrhythms that happen between band members in something like Black Dog

and more like the bridge in Eulogy that was brought up ... or things heavily used by bands like Dillinger Escape Plan, Animals As Leaders, Canderia, Messhuguah, etc. etc. ... where the drummer himself is creating the deviant and most noticeable poly.

these tactics have been used by progressive bands since the beginning of time... and in music in general forever ... put on some Scriabin ...

guys like Tony Williams and Billy Cobham brought this to the forefront of drumming with the inception of fusion ... but jazz drummers have always employed these principles ... albeit mostly more subtly than the above mentioned

it all has its place ... and if someone doesn't enjoy hearing music peppered with it they probably do not enjoy "progressive" music ...

hell , I can barely stomach a lot of it that I hear ...

I've heard bands... like Soundgarden and Tool for example ... sneak these things in pretty tastefully ... Porcupine Tree as well ... there are many of course
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-18-2018, 10:58 PM
alparrott's Avatar
alparrott alparrott is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wenatchee, WA
Posts: 5,995
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
any music or drum beat beyond something like constant quarter notes being pounded out is littered in polyrhythm

all a polyrhythm is , is more than one rhythm happening simultaneously

you can't really make music at all without polyrhythm ... I guess you can but it would be quite boring
^This. I often introduce folks to the idea of a polyrhythm by referring them to the well known Christmas song "Carol of the Bells", which is a simple 3-over-2 polyrhythm executed in a single melodic line. Try tapping it out using both hands and you'll find one hand doing quarter-note triplets and the other doing straight quarter notes.

A shuffle where the kick is 4 on the floor, the snare is on two and four, and the ride hand is playing the shuffle pattern is a polyrhythm too.

I agree with Tony's statement that the OP is thinking of "deviant" or discordant polyrhythms, which to me are the drumming equivalent of extreme chord progressions that are discordant or anti-harmonic. They sound intended to challenge and jar the listener. But just as many chord structures are harmonizing and pleasant or mood-evoking, many conventional polyrhythms fit instinctively into different styles of music.
__________________
Al Parrott
"Jus suum cuique"
-------------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-19-2018, 01:10 AM
bermuda's Avatar
bermuda bermuda is offline
Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,584
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikyok View Post
When it becomes the sole purpose of the song. With any odd time signature/polyrhythm it sounds best when you don't really notice it or feel it and then when you count it you're pleasantly surprised. For example the intro to White Room, Solsbury Hill

Listen to Happiness Is A Warm Gun and count the time signature changes, I guarantee you've never noticed a bar of 5/4 in a Beatles song. There's also a polyrhythm 12/8 over 4/4.

Another song with a polyrhythm nobody notices is in Jive Talking - 7/4 over 4/4
Add Dave Brubeck's "Take Five." They all work because you can tap your foot to the music, without stumbling.

For me, that's the answer: polyrhythms/odd-times stop being cool and become strictly gratuitous when they no longer flow. If I can't tap my foot to a song, I tend to not like it.

Don't misunderstand, I respect players who can do a lot of technical fireworks. It can be impressive. For about 30 seconds. Then I need something more from that music. Or more accurately, something less.

Bermuda
__________________
DrumDoug: "I've tried talking to the guys about our stage volume, but it just falls on deaf ears"
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-19-2018, 02:38 AM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,311
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Bombastic modern rock and prog stuff is one thing.

There's a lot of orchestral music with a lot of changes where one wouldn't really think of it in those terms.
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-19-2018, 02:54 AM
dboomer dboomer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 209
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Correct me if I'm wrong here ... but a polyrhythm is a rhythm that uses multiple rhythms at the same time, regardless of the time signature.

So to the OP's question, for me, it becomes academic if I have to actually count it out rather than just feel it.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-19-2018, 03:38 AM
bud7h4 bud7h4 is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 730
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

I just don't like to listen to it for an entire song. Particularly in metal and hard rock, because (for me) there HAS to be a relatively straight forward groove at some point.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-19-2018, 03:50 AM
Ransan's Avatar
Ransan Ransan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Pueblo West, Colorado
Posts: 52
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

- Here’s Choirs of Devastation, and Rational Gaze, by Meshuggah,Tomas Haake on drums. I think Anything by Tomas Haake. Listen to other songs like Obzen, Bleed, Rational Gaze(my favorite), Future Breed Machine. He does a good job at grooving in odd meters while the band plays 4/4-mostly. Blows Danny Carey, Chris Adler, Portnoy off the throne. Best djent and prog i drummer in the biz. If any one can figure out what he’s doing the chorus rhythm on “TMLWYB” definitely has my props! He doesn’t need blast beats, dude can groove! http://https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1oMq4YvLFCQ
http://https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rkrjE4QRsys

Last edited by Ransan; 06-19-2018 at 03:59 AM. Reason: Left sentence out
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-19-2018, 04:40 AM
bermuda's Avatar
bermuda bermuda is offline
Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,584
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dboomer View Post
So to the OP's question, for me, it becomes academic if I have to actually count it out rather than just feel it.
Exactly. Music shouldn't have to be analyzed to be appreciated, it should simply be felt.

Bermuda
__________________
DrumDoug: "I've tried talking to the guys about our stage volume, but it just falls on deaf ears"
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-19-2018, 06:00 AM
oldskoolsoul's Avatar
oldskoolsoul oldskoolsoul is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 316
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

I am not sure if this answers the question, but there has been only 1 time in my life that i literally got angry/annoyed by some 'technical' music, polyrhythms or not, and that was when looking/listening 50 minutes to Virgil Donati playing alone..
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-19-2018, 06:17 AM
martianmambo martianmambo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 101
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
I am not sure if this answers the question, but there has been only 1 time in my life that i literally got angry/annoyed by some 'technical' music, polyrhythms or not, and that was when looking/listening 50 minutes to Virgil Donati playing alone..
Yeah, I love Donati, but I'd rather hear his ideas expressed in the context of a song, not a solo. I feel the same about a few other drummers, such as Dennis Chambers.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 06-19-2018, 11:00 AM
mikyok's Avatar
mikyok mikyok is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Tipton in the mighty Black Country
Posts: 1,515
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
I respect players who can do a lot of technical fireworks. It can be impressive. For about 30 seconds. Then I need something more from that music. Or more accurately, something less.

Bermuda
Exactly, it takes hours/days/weeks/months/years of practice to master the technical stuff and it's nice to have it in the locker but it rarely rears its ugly head nowadays.

I find it's quite anti-social music when it gets too technical and only other musicians into 'math rock' get what your doing. It gets to the point where it's not entertaining just massaging an ego.

Strange thing is I love odd time when it's done right, I love my prog, but they are well written songs that are enhanced by good playing.
__________________
I aint farting on no snare drum
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06-19-2018, 01:42 PM
Swiss Matthias's Avatar
Swiss Matthias Swiss Matthias is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 3,188
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Everything by Tigran Hamasyan is fine for me :).

I think it's no different than other aspects of music: An idea, a rhythm, a polyrhythm etc.
has to be beautifully placed in the context of a good song that tells a story (musically, not literally).
If it sounds out of place or badly arranged, then it's probably a case of too academic.

I never liked the term "technical music" though. That's just silly. There's good music
and there's bad music. And maybe there's easy-to-play music and hard-to-play music.
__________________
My website
My youtube channel
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-19-2018, 03:06 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 19,935
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikyok View Post

I find it's quite anti-social music when it gets too technical and only other musicians into 'math rock' get what your doing. It gets to the point where it's not entertaining just massaging an ego.
Nice perspective. Anti-social (when it gets too technical). I can see that to a degree. Could be called ego-centric too maybe.

Massaging the ego, pretty sober overview of what's actually happening IMO.

Maybe a touch of superiority complex thrown in as well...you may sit in awe of how accomplished I am on my instrument.

I'm not anywhere near there, so I probably can't understand it.
__________________
Sucking all the fun right out of life...
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-19-2018, 03:15 PM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,311
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Nice perspective. Anti-social (when it gets too technical). I can see that to a degree. Could be called ego-centric too maybe.

Massaging the ego, pretty sober overview of what's actually happening IMO.

Maybe a touch of superiority complex thrown in as well...you may sit in awe of how accomplished I am on my instrument.

I'm not anywhere near there, so I probably can't understand it.

Really?

What happened to challenging and improving oneself just for the joy of it and hoping to influence the world in the same open minded an positive way?
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-19-2018, 03:35 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 19,935
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd-Arne Oseberg View Post
Really?

What happened to challenging and improving oneself just for the joy of it and hoping to influence the world in the same open minded an positive way?
Nothing!

20202020
__________________
Sucking all the fun right out of life...
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-19-2018, 04:54 PM
mikyok's Avatar
mikyok mikyok is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Tipton in the mighty Black Country
Posts: 1,515
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd-Arne Oseberg View Post
Really?

What happened to challenging and improving oneself just for the joy of it and hoping to influence the world in the same open minded an positive way?
Nothing wrong with challenging and improving yourself, we never stop doing that otherwise we'd stop drumming. For me it's about using your ability tastefully. Otherwise it's art for arts sake.
__________________
I aint farting on no snare drum
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-19-2018, 06:28 PM
MrInsanePolack's Avatar
MrInsanePolack MrInsanePolack is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 1,574
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

Tastes vary between people, and some of us get bored with the same old thing. We do create the music for ourselves first and foremost. If we all created music for the masses and that was our goal, wouldn't it all be the same and lose it's value as music? Yeah some music is downright confusing, but someone somewhere must get it or it wouldn't exist.
__________________
Just because we can doesn't mean we should.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-20-2018, 12:13 AM
Ransan's Avatar
Ransan Ransan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Pueblo West, Colorado
Posts: 52
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

4/4 time keeping over 3/4?? Freddy Crump - ENJOY!!!����http://https://youtu.be/Ftw3oIXhxt8
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 06-20-2018, 02:02 AM
SmoothOperator SmoothOperator is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,107
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

I find that polyrhythms that involve unisons are mostly academic sounding. Once I realized I could play 5 vs 4 without ever playing a note of unison, it really sort of opened the door to hearing how often polyrhythms crop up in nearly every genre.

I can hear the argument already, "bu bu but how is it a poly rhythm if you don't play more than one note at a time."

Well, you could write it out in 20/8 just like ye old 6/8 is a three vs two, but that doesn't mean it isn't easier to play as two separate rhythms.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 06-20-2018, 08:37 PM
Spreggy's Avatar
Spreggy Spreggy is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 937
Default Re: At which point do polyrhythms stop sounding cool and start sounding academic?

At what point? I don't know how to define it, but I know it when I hear it. When it breaks the song, I guess.


Someone who has time to develop polys clearly has more practice time on their hands than I do.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com