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  #1  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:13 AM
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Default 4-up, 2-down question

Been eyeing Jonathan Moffett's kit from Michael Jackson's HIStory Tour and couldn't help but notice how his rack toms were set up. Can I get some insight on wether this would be a good set-up to try on my own?

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Old 06-20-2018, 06:35 AM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

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Originally Posted by BenjaminCamelot View Post
Been eyeing Jonathan Moffett's kit from Michael Jackson's HIStory Tour and couldn't help but notice how his rack toms were set up. Can I get some insight on wether this would be a good set-up to try on my own?
Having looked at this photo and watched videos of him on similar setups, I have to say that there's a lot about his setup that looks ergonomically awkward to me. But I'm not his height, for one thing. Looks like he sits very high with his knees almost not bent. That allows him to run his front rack tube behind the toms, instead of in front. If you're that tall, I say try it, why not? No hard and fast rules with this instrument so long as you can play what the music requires consistently.
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Old 06-20-2018, 07:53 AM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

You really have to try it to see if it works for you. Personally, once you have the bass drum, snare drum, and hi-hat where they're the most comfortable for you since you play those instruments together 99% of the time, the toms should fit around those so you can comfortably play those too - but since you don't play those as much, it's not as important to the groove.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

Do you have enough drums to put that configuration together? If so, give it a whirl.
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Old 06-20-2018, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

I think the only way I'd be comfy with this is if I started with an 8" tom as opposed to a 10" in the pic. But that's just me.

Give it a try! You might like it; you might hate it. However, you won't know until you give it a shot.
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Old 06-20-2018, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

Ergonomically, for me it's easier to have more drums "up" than "down." Although I'm quite tall and have fairly long arms, I've never been comfortable playing two floor toms. I'd much rather have an additional rack tom. My main concern about having "4 up" is where to position my ride cymbal. There are many set-ups that look cool but in the end, I'm more interested in what suits me ergonomically.
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Old 06-20-2018, 03:37 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

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Originally Posted by BenjaminCamelot View Post
Can I get some insight on wether this would be a good set-up to try on my own?
I would say, based on your playing style, this setup is completely wrong for you.
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  #8  
Old 06-20-2018, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

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Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
Do you have enough drums to put that configuration together? If so, give it a whirl.
I just need to get another tom then I'd be good to go.
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Old 06-20-2018, 04:25 PM
williamsbclontz williamsbclontz is offline
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

On one of my kits I have 3 up and 2 down, and my hi hat is a little too far left for my taste already. Also the drums are pretty tall, and I am really considering a 20" bass because of it. If you can pull off 4 up I'd say go for it, it would just take some planning to make it work and some time to get used to it

But man the solos would be so fun
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

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I just need to get another tom then I'd be good to go.
If you're all ready 3 up .... then it should be pretty easy to envision adding a 4th tom. Depending on which side your adding to, would you need to move either your hi hat or ride cymbal? If so, make space now for this new tom, and see if you like the arrangement. Certainly, lots of drummers run 4 toms up. Very popular with double bass kits, where each kick drum has 2 toms above it.
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  #11  
Old 06-20-2018, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

The problem I see with this set up is the far right Tom, supposedly 14". I often play 10 12 13, it's easy, but if I add a 14, I don't see how I'd play it and where I'd put the ride cymbal.

4 up means far ride so it would depend on your priority, the other possibility would be the Nicko Mc Brain trick to place the ride over the far right Tom.
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  #12  
Old 06-20-2018, 10:16 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

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The problem I see with this set up is the far right Tom, supposedly 14". I often play 10 12 13, it's easy, but if I add a 14, I don't see how I'd play it and where I'd put the ride cymbal.

4 up means far ride so it would depend on your priority, the other possibility would be the Nicko Mc Brain trick to place the ride over the far right Tom.
If I ever used this kinda setup, I'd probably place my ride cymbal in between my two floor toms.
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Old 06-20-2018, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

Back in my younger days I played 4 up and 1 down. I had 2 rack toms on the kick and 2 more to the right and above the floor tom on a stand. I positioned the ride between the # 2 and # 3 rack toms.

Ran that set up for years. That said, the first time I gigged with it and went to the ride and I thought my arm was gonna fall off. Got used to it.
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  #14  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

I've tried so many times to get that layout to work, but I can't fit in the High hat. What I do now is reposition the smallest tom to the other side of the Hi hat and tune it silly high and use as a timbale.
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  #15  
Old 06-21-2018, 12:05 AM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

I used to play with three up (both 10/12/14 and 8/10/12)and that was enough of a balancing act between hat and ride placement for me. 4 up would just be an unnecessary ergonomic hardship and I can't see any situation where I would need to put myself through that.

At one point I did experiment with 8/10 up, 12 under the hats, and 14/16 near the ride. That mutated to 10/12 up, a 'snom' under the hats, the 14/16 near the ride. That mutated to 10/12, 14 under the hats, and the 16 near the ride. That muted to 10/12 up and 16 down. Played all the same material on each configuration.

This was all within a 2-3 year stint with an original act, performing songs that were written with these various kit configurations. An albums worth of material was done around the biggest of my setups. As I pared down, nobody could hear an appreciable difference, and after my muscle memory adjusted I couldn't feel one either.
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  #16  
Old 06-21-2018, 12:31 AM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

The only way to know is to try it out.

I actually own a bunch of the rack clamps from one of his kits. Not exactly sure if it's from this kit or another one.
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:18 AM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

This is the only proper way to set up a 4 up and 2 down setup...

I'm just kidding btw.. whatever is most comfortable for YOU to play with is the best for YOU!
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  #18  
Old 06-24-2018, 05:50 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

Wow, that is a nice setup! Phil Collins like.
Have you cut the hihat rod ?
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  #19  
Old 06-29-2018, 05:53 AM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

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Wow, that is a nice setup! Phil Collins like.
Have you cut the hihat rod ?
Someone's either a Neil Peart or Phil Collins fan. Maybe both.
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Old 06-29-2018, 06:49 AM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

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This is the only proper way to set up a 4 up and 2 down setup...

I'm just kidding btw.. whatever is most comfortable for YOU to play with is the best for YOU!
I was just about to mention the "Dave Lombardo" set up method as seen in your photo.
Best of both worlds in that you can have all 4 rack toms while still having the hi-hat nice and close to your left and the ride close to your right.
The only down-side (for me anyway) is having to come across then down halfway through a tom-fill instead of all 4 being on the same "level".
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Old 06-29-2018, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

Only way to know is to try it, if you don't like it go back to your current setup. I ran 6 up 1 down for 20 years. All in the matter of what works for you honestly. I currently run 3 up 1 down and I'm happy and can play what I want.
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  #22  
Old 06-29-2018, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

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Only way to know is to try it, if you don't like it go back to your current setup. I ran 6 up 1 down for 20 years. All in the matter of what works for you honestly. I currently run 3 up 1 down and I'm happy and can play what I want.
6 up ! Maybe some photos to show how you organised that setup ?
something like that plus a 8" ?
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Old 06-29-2018, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

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Originally Posted by Defender View Post
This is the only proper way to set up a 4 up and 2 down setup...

I'm just kidding btw.. whatever is most comfortable for YOU to play with is the best for YOU!
Nice set up, man I would love to have an eternal run down those toms !

I often find myself jealous of setups like these, and have often attempted the 2-up thing but it never lasted long...

I can even say the 2-up envy caused me to sell great kits only to find myself with 10in toms sadly resting in cases in my storage space.

I like my left and right ride close and low surrounding my single 12 inch tom, and I learned the expensive way you just can't go against your nature. I could never make 4 work.

I guess I am comfortably locked in 1-up heaven, but the grass looks pretty green on your side of the fence !
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Old 06-29-2018, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

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6 up ! Maybe some photos to show how you organised that setup ?
something like that plus a 8" ?
That kit screams 80s...
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Old 06-29-2018, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

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That kit screams 80s...
90s to be exact. Tama Artstar ES.

My dark blue Tama Granstar II kit looks very similar. :-)

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Old 06-29-2018, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

Worked for me for 4 years until I changed directions.
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Old 06-30-2018, 12:42 AM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

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Originally Posted by Tamaefx View Post
6 up ! Maybe some photos to show how you organised that setup ?
something like that plus a 8" ?
And no this was not inspired by Neal, didn't know about him when I got this kit



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Old 06-30-2018, 01:16 AM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

That's like a Neil Simon Beauford kit.
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Old 06-30-2018, 03:53 AM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

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And no this was not inspired by Neal, didn't know about him when I got this kit



Reminds me of the Hal Blaine "Octoplus". Cool.
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Old 06-30-2018, 04:43 AM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

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Reminds me of the Hal Blaine "Octoplus". Cool.
This baby looks liks a butterfly in full bloom!

Awesome!
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Old 06-30-2018, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

The last two rack toms were easy to play ?
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  #32  
Old 06-30-2018, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: 4-up, 2-down question

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The last two rack toms were easy to play ?
Yeah no problem st sll
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