Drum mic packages - yay or nay

lhrocker

Member
I'd like to start recording drums for my demos. I currently have a SM-58, AKG-3700 and a AKG C-3000 plus some other low end karoake mics. I was thinking of getting one of the lower priced multi-mic packages such as audix, cad, etc...

I was looking to stay under $400 for the set, and was wondering if anyone has used them and are they any good? Or, would I be better off getting a few more used 57/58's?
 
I bought a 3-pack of Sennheiser e604s for my toms, using the standard Shure SM57 on my snare, a Sennheiser e602 on bass drum, and Shure PG81s for overheads.

Cool thing about the packs is they come with a nice case that perfectly fits your mics.

Con is you're stuck with what's in the pack. I like my mix of Shure and Sennheiser mics, they get a sound I like. If you like the Audix sound, go for it. If you like the SM57 sound, go for it.

I did have one of the CAD sets, it was ok, but I quickly outgrew it in terms of sound quality. The Audix are a bit higher quality, but I think you'll get the best by buying individual mics and piecing together your setup.

To me, mics and cymbals are very similar. My ears likes my cymbals and mics, your ear probably doesn't.
 
I picked up the Samson 7Kit package as it was on sale and I had 60 days to return it if I don't like it. I did a quick test and so far, I really like the overheads. I will do an in depth test over the weekend to see if it stays or goes.

Pete
 
Ide like to know how that 7 piece package works out too. If its any good, i may get it myself! Let us know :)
 
I returned the the mics today. After trying them out for a couple of days, I found the snare mic to be muddy and the kick was even worse. I did like the toms and the overheads, but to lose the 2 main parts of the kit, the mic kit was no longer worth it to me. I returned to Sam Ash and lucked out in getting a full refund. In speaking to the salesperson, they have a 15% restocking fee on all pro-audio.

Time to move forward.
 
I returned the the mics today. After trying them out for a couple of days, I found the snare mic to be muddy and the kick was even worse. I did like the toms and the overheads, but to lose the 2 main parts of the kit, the mic kit was no longer worth it to me. I returned to Sam Ash and lucked out in getting a full refund. In speaking to the salesperson, they have a 15% restocking fee on all pro-audio.

Time to move forward.


Well, here is my setup after alot of trial and error...

I use Behringer XM8500, on Snares and Toms and even Kick Drums. (yes kick drums. Alot of albums have recorded kick drums with a SM57 or SM58 (Blood Sugar Sex Magik - Red Hot Chili Peppers for example)

I believe they are superior for micing drums than the SM57 / SM58 after a simple modification you can do yourself. They are bassicaly exact copy's BEFORE the mod.

They sound clearer and "Hi Fi" across the freq. spectrum and capture the lows GREAT. They can be EQ'd very easily and sound very full. They make toms sound HUGE!

Then, for overheads I use 2 Large Diaphragm Condensers... Modded MXL V63m (that only cost me about $140 each INCLUDING the modifications I had done on them And Shockmount). I put them against any $1000 mic out there (after the mods).

They capture the room great; they still get that very Clean cymbal shimmer, while still sounding warmer than Small Diaphragm Condensers.

If you have two GOOD overheads, you can get away with just a Mic on the Snare and Kick. I use this method ALOT, and couldn't be happier.

Countless Amazing recordings have been recorded this way...
 
I'm just wondering what type of modification can you do to a $150 condenser microphone to make it sound like a $1000 microphone? What does it do to the frequency response curve, signal to noise ratio, top signal pressure level or open microphone voltage? Who was your technician? I have a few condensers that might be sonically cleaned-up by your tech.

Dennis
 
I'm just wondering what type of modification can you do to a $150 condenser microphone to make it sound like a $1000 microphone? What does it do to the frequency response curve, signal to noise ratio, top signal pressure level or open microphone voltage?


It's actually a $68 mic...

http://www.svideo.com/mxlv63m.html?cmp=googleproducts&kw=mxlv63m


But if you understand the anatomy of a mic, specifically a condenser mic, there is ALOT you can do to modify them that will drastically improve the sound.

With these mods, the mic functions at its optimum.


What does it do to the frequency response curve, signal to noise ratio, top signal pressure level or open microphone voltage?


That’s assuming that all of those attributes you stated are faulty to begin with. Have you ever tried a Stock V63m before? Its a fine mic to begin with, but is not a "Great" mic.

It actually already has a great capsule to begin with, doesn't really need to be changed. However, if you understand the circuitry of the mic, there is a few things that could definitely be improved.


I don’t know if you are familiar with Guitar Effect Pedals. However, the same principles apply. You see, a $29 Guitar Center Special distortion pedal that sounds like crap doesn't HAVE to sound like crap.

If you understand the schematic, and can see what changes need to be made done, With a few components change, few transistors here, couple high quality capacitors there, and Voila, you have a pedal that can keep up with a boutique $200 Box.

However, I do not do the Mic Modifications myself...yet. I have someone do it.

Peace
 
Cobamator, you're teaching Audiotech to suck eggs there. He knows this stuff.

What actual modifications have been done to your microphones?
 
What does it do to the frequency response curve, signal to noise ratio, top signal pressure level...


Not to nit pick, but is this how you just a good condenser (signal pressure level)?

A cheap MXL 990 ($60 mic) has a Sound Pressure Level of 137 dB.

The Holy Grail of mics, Neumann U87 ($3,200) has a Sound Pressure Level of only 127 dB and thats WITH the -10db switch engaged!
 
No, it's not how you judge a mic - but a modification could be installing a permanent pad or changing the capsule to one that can handle a higher SPL.

You still haven't said what these modifications are.

the U87 isn't the Holy Grail either. There is no such thing. And good U87 clones are very common today; even NOS clones.
 
Cobamator, you're teaching Audiotech to suck eggs there. He knows this stuff.

Did I ever imply he didn’t? He asked me a simple question and I respectfully responded.

Alot of people like to change the capsules on these MXL mics. However, the V63m can be made better by simply changing out parts on the circuit board and the like. It is transformerless.

However, please don't take my word for it, please do a google search on these mods and see the feedback.


The U87 isn't the Holy Grail either. There is no such thing. And good U87 clones are very common today; even NOS clones.

I am simply using a Great, $3000+ mic as an EXAMPLE about SPL's...I'm not particularly concerned about the politically correct Title of Condenser mics.
 
It's got nothing to do with 'Political Correctness'.

I simply asked you what these touted 'mods' were because you've had them done. You've been posting about your modifications all day but you haven't actually said what they are. That's quite an important bit of information missing for anybody that might be considering purchasing them and any upgrades you have had done to them.
 
What does it do to the frequency response curve?

This is the MOST important part of the mod.

I say, YES, the modded mic definitely sounds clearer, Smoother, and not as harsh in the hi-end, and it defiantly has a different structure in the mids and bass. And it just gets every nuance of the whole frequency spectrum. Smoothly. You are correct; it DOES change the Frequency response.

The difference IS night and Day.


signal to noise ratio?

The Higher S/N ratio the better, as you know. However, even a Cheap Stock MXL 440 ($70) for example, has the same S/N ratio (80db) as some of the Most Expensive mics out there.

Most of These Cheap MXL do not have to be tampered in this department, as their specs are up there with the big dogs.

top signal pressure level?

See my Other post.



open microphone voltage?

I am not familiar with "Open" microphone voltage. Sorry.
 
It's got nothing to do with 'Political Correctness'.

I simply asked you what these touted 'mods' were because you've had them done. You've been posting about your modifications all day but you haven't actually said what they are. That's quite an important bit of information missing for anybody that might be considering purchasing them and any upgrades you have had done to them.


Alot of people like to change the capsules on these MXL mics. However, the V63m can be made better by simply changing out parts on the circuit board and the like. It is transformerless.


That’s what’s been done...all the components on the board. NO capsule replacement. (However, GREAT results can be had with a Capsule upgrade, I am not opposed to that)

I do not know the individual values of each capacitor and transistor and FET that has been modded, or what power supply grounding technique has been used however. That’s what I hire someone to do.
 
I'm not asking for specifics, I'm asking for generalisations. If I asked somebody what they were doing to my microphone, I'd expect to hear that they're changing the values of a couple of resistors, perhaps upgrading any internal wires and changing the profile of the windshield. I wouldn't get the work done unless I knew what they were doing.

So I'm not asking for specific values, just generally what he does. Now you've admitted that you're not sure, that's fine.
 
I'm not asking for specifics, I'm asking for generalisations. If I asked somebody what they were doing to my microphone, I'd expect to hear that they're changing the values of a couple of resistors, perhaps upgrading any internal wires and changing the profile of the windshield. I wouldn't get the work done unless I knew what they were doing.

So I'm not asking for specific values, just generally what he does. Now you've admitted that you're not sure, that's fine.

Good point, I totally see where your coming from. And if you didn't know any feedback about the modder, I could see the apprehension...I get that.

However, the mic is wired with super hi quality Mogami Wire (stock) and the Grille is very nice...I wouldn't want to tamper with it.

However, at this point, Because the difference IS Night and Day (that is, before and after the mod), the Specific Values of all the parts he replaced on the circuit board is not my main concern, and your right, "I've admitted that I'm not sure" what those Specific Values are. This Mic is Beautiful, and that’s what matters at the end of the day right? :)

Peace Brother.

P.S. Sorry for Hijacking the thread!
 
Too bad you missed MusiciansFriend Stupid deal of the Day yesterday. They had a great deal for less than half price
 
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