What should every very advanced drummer know? (grooves/beats, techniques, styles, etc... anything)

S

somedrummer19

Junior Member
What should every very advanced drummer know? (grooves/beats, techniques, styles, etc... anything)

I am looking for a list of what the average very very high professionals are familiar with.. So that I myself (not quite a professional) can work on and improve on and learn

Thanks in advance....
 
And advanced drummer knows that notes that are *not* played are perhaps more important than those that are...
 
somedrummer19 said:
What should every very advanced drummer know? (grooves/beats, techniques, styles, etc... anything)

I am looking for a list of what the average very very high professionals are familiar with.. So that I myself (not quite a professional) can work on and improve on and learn

Thanks in advance....
Click to expand...

Personally, I don't think there is a list. Although, for the short term you could make one up, but then you end up figuring out that the more you do know, the more you don't know. What you should be doing is listening to as much music and absorbing styles and vibe as you can, and be ready. Go get with a teacher and study study study, join bands and play as much as you can. As you learn more, the more you will find is out there to learn, so it never stops. But playing in time and making the time feel good would be at the top of my list, but there's much more to it.
 
Advanced drummers should be able to play all styles. Everything from Latin Jazz to Country foot stompers.

What makes a drummer VERY advanced is the ability to contribute to the music. The guys who come into a session and nail the perfect part in a take or two. Who go out on a tour and the front line just grins every night. Who can follow all the nuances of the rest of the song and put just the right part in the right place. Whether it's holding down a killer steady groove like Steve Jordan or ?uestlove, or coming up with a Gadd pattern like 50 Ways, or driving complex things like Vinnie did with Zappa. It comes from having a huge vocabulary and awareness of so much different music that you can pull together bits and pieces on command to put the perfect touch on a song. And the chops to pull them off musically.

What a lot of midrange musicians don't realize, is just how deep most of the A list players are. Just because you hear someone playing one style, they are probably well versed in many and often play one or more melodic instruments. You may read interviews where they downplay formal study and advocate using your ear or letting go. Don't be fooled. That is the next level after all the formal study, not a substitute for it. Things like Victor Wooten's Music Lesson are how you learn to apply all that theoretical knowledge and years of chops building into transcending the academic and making beautiful music.

Learn everything you can. Break it down until you understand it instead of just being able to get though it or do something like it. Why this or that works. Come up with variations based on what you've learned. Get them all down to where they are effortless when the idea occurs to you. Then move on to another. Keep going. Eventually, if you have the right combination of natural talent, dedication and perseverance, you may become a very advanced drummer. There are a lot of very serious cats out there, but there's always room for someone with something new to say.
 
I haven't really looked at it but Tommy Igoe released a poster of essential grooves, that might be a cool place to start.

In terms of licks you might wanna learn:
Grace notes
Blushda
6 stroke roll
quads

And learn how to subdivide the pulse by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 & 12

Gavin Harrisons 1st DVD covers it.
 
There is no list.

There will also be music that will not suit you as you'd be playing it for the wrong reasons.

However.

An advanced drummer should be able to fit naturally into any popular style of music, not just by techinical skills, but by knowing, hearing and feeling ehat's right.

There's always further steps to take. Playing something that works may be different from playing something that sounds more authentic. Sometimes that's important, sometimes it's not. You should be able to change things up based on the employers request without having to go home and work on it, so you need as big a basic vocabulary as possible. This should be part of your routine every day of your life.

If you want to master a certain style you have to listen to and really understand the music. This takes time and requires a personal journey of exploration through that music. Can you still play a basic latin beat and make it work, sure, it depends on how sensitive you are to what's happening around you, which is the most important thing you can develop as a musician.

The skills need to be there on a level where you don't have to think about them, so you can concentrate fully on the music. This is a project for a lifetime. I have a plan that works for me, but my plan may not work for you.

In a way your question is to wide. You first have to clarify your goals and make your own owrkplan on how to reach them. Then a teacher can teach you about each of those things separately with fitting methodology.

The big things are all the fundamentals of music. They should be practiced with the intent of complete freedom and control.

Whatever you practice make it musical and meaningful.
 
Only one rule, you need to be able to recognise when not to play. Or in reality how to get over your point using the simplest of chops. A song isn't about 21/16 flamadiddles played at 300 bpm. You can be grade 8 and learn all the rudiments but that doesn't make you a drummer.
 
Bo and Arne, actually there is a list ... here's The Big Ten ...

1. Double kicks at 200 bpm
2. 32nd note flurries in 16th note hat grooves
3. Jazz comping with lots of strong accents between LH and RF to show how you can play jazz
4. Crossovers
5. Bonham triplets that switch just as they're about to break down into that galloping thing
6. Bonham quads that sound like stampeding elephants
7. 16th note fills down the toms as fast as you can manage
8. Playing open handed (at any bpm, you still look ambidextrous)
9. Stick twirls and tosses
10. Half time shuffle with lots of ghost notes that are loud enough to make sure drummers in the audience don't miss 'em
 
Being advanced and being professional are different concepts. Step one for advanced drummers who want to become professional is to refrain from doing those things that make them so advanced.

Bermuda
 
bermuda said:
Being advanced and being professional are different concepts. Step one for advanced drummers who want to become professional is to refrain from doing those things that make them so advanced.

Bermuda
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Whoa , that's right on, and very profound.
I've always wondered why guys like Dave Weckl spend so much time being this technically superb monster and then waste so much time playing boring music that only upstart musicians want to hear.
 
That's a pretty broad question. Every pro drummer should know everything to do with playing the drums in common musical settings— or at least in his chosen musical settings. The way to find out what that covers and learn it is to get out into the field and listen, play with people, and do gigs. Probably the biggest area of stuff every pro does not need to know lies under “advanced/extreme drum crap / favorite topics-du-jour of drummers” heading— double bass, open handed drumming, the more extreme forms of independence, extreme chops, visual um “flair”, Zappa-like rhythm, and very advanced polyrhythms, displacement, and metric modulation. You can recognize that stuff when you see it. The best players I know may have a certain amount of that stuff together, and will certainly sound “advanced” to most people, but they gear their playing in favor of making music rather than being amazing in a solo/contest/“clinic” format.

Oh, never mind, I see Bermuda already said what I mean, but better...
 
I only said what I said because the word "professional" was brought into the question.

In terms of advancement, that's a simple answer: learn everything there is to know. Of course nobody ever really does, but that would be the goal.

How (and when) that knowledge should be employed is the other side of the coin, and has been discussed frequently in various 'less is more' threads. Those choices come from the wisdom learned from experience. And whether those choices are correct is subjective as well, so there's still no definitive answer.

But it is those choices that separate working/career drummers (I assume that was what was meant by professional) and those who aren't working, and technical advancement is not an advantage if there's no discretion in its implementation. Unbelievably, there are drummers who really believe 'more' is always more. But even Vinnie knows when to play 2&4, and he does it more often than you think. Does anyone really believe he makes a living doing Burning For Buddy every day?

Not to be flip, but I am thankful for the discretion-less drummers who guarantee that I have work.

Bermuda
 
toddbishop said:
That's a pretty broad question. Every pro drummer should know everything to do with playing the drums in common musical settings— or at least in his chosen musical settings. The way to find out what that covers and learn it is to get out into the field and listen, play with people, and do gigs. Probably the biggest area of stuff every pro does not need to know lies under “advanced/extreme drum crap / favorite topics-du-jour of drummers” heading— double bass, open handed drumming, the more extreme forms of independence, extreme chops, visual um “flair”, Zappa-like rhythm, and very advanced polyrhythms, displacement, and metric modulation. You can recognize that stuff when you see it. The best players I know may have a certain amount of that stuff together, and will certainly sound “advanced” to most people, but they gear their playing in favor of making music rather than being amazing in a solo/contest/“clinic” format.

Oh, never mind, I see Bermuda already said what I mean, but better...
Click to expand...
No , you said it very well too !



And absolutely learn everything you can....but remember to use it wisely.



edit: I should add that Dave Weckl is amazing... but if you want somewhat of a career in drumming you really have to get out there. Learn all you can so when someone asks if you can give me this kinda fill or that kinda groove....you can do it or at least be able to work with them to get what they want.
That's the big thing... being able to work with artists to get what THEY want.
When you get to the point of being called to do tours or recordings or fill-ins, it's already assumed you know what's up...it becomes how easy you are to work with and how you make me sound.
That's what advanced drummers need to know.
 
Last edited:
Anon La Ply said:
Bo and Arne, actually there is a list ... here's The Big Ten ...

1. Double kicks at 200 bpm
2. 32nd note flurries in 16th note hat grooves
3. Jazz comping with lots of strong accents between LH and RF to show how you can play jazz
4. Crossovers
5. Bonham triplets that switch just as they're about to break down into that galloping thing
6. Bonham quads that sound like stampeding elephants
7. 16th note fills down the toms as fast as you can manage
8. Playing open handed (at any bpm, you still look ambidextrous)
9. Stick twirls and tosses
10. Half time shuffle with lots of ghost notes that are loud enough to make sure drummers in the audience don't miss 'em
Click to expand...

So true. Very good. Like it!
 
Vinnie plays a lot of so called "simple stuff", but I think the ease control,sensitivity and slight tasteful variations with which he does those things show clearly even then what level he's at.

When control and technique is not an issue and something you have to think about, then you fully concentrate on the music and how it's best served in that moment. It's not a question of complexity or virtuosity, just what you feel is fitting in the moment.

This means you must develop every part of your musicality along with your technique and improvise and have fun with it.

You take those concepts and practice then within the idiom you currently want to be more comfortable in.

With that in mind the previously provided list doesn't even provide 5% of purely technical skills, which isn't even the main part of making music, and if you have a skilled tutor all other parts of making music will be touched upon at any level of one's development.

Desn't matter if you're playing "Party in Simon's pants" or just learning basic quarter notes on the snare drum. The same principles apply. The the question is just how deep do you want to go into it, and that's an individual choice.

Being a professional simply means being able to do the job. That will in most bands mean to just keep good basic time and making it feel good, makinfg everybody feel secure and comfortable and adding appropriate spice.

When discussing how advanced one wants to go, that's simply a personal choice regarding what you find interesting and fulfilling. For me learning an instrument is a path of discovery that I want to take as far as possible to do a wide range of improvised music as well as anything else. This means a lot of practice, but the only real short cut is still to take things slow and keep it musical. That way you don't have to go back and fix quite as many things later. You want to do that as you develop your sensitivity and your own musical voice anyway, but you get the idea.

Choose a framework(context), put all those skills into it and stick with it. Results will follow continuously.
 
Most gigs that I play, I use what I learned in the 1st 3 years I started drumming. We spend a lot of time working on our chops, independence, styles, etc. We need to continue working on those, because they contribute to everything else. Our touch, groove, and style all stem back to the things we work on everyday. Just because I can play 32nd note bass drum fill, doesn't mean that I have to use it. Its nice having it in the bag of tricks though, and you can be sure that your a better musician for working on those skills.

The most important thing I have learned is how to communicate while playing, and keeping the form. Know where you are in the song, and keep looking at other players.
 
Anon La Ply said:
Bo and Arne, actually there is a list ... here's The Big Ten ...

1. Double kicks at 200 bpm
2. 32nd note flurries in 16th note hat grooves
3. Jazz comping with lots of strong accents between LH and RF to show how you can play jazz
4. Crossovers
5. Bonham triplets that switch just as they're about to break down into that galloping thing
6. Bonham quads that sound like stampeding elephants
7. 16th note fills down the toms as fast as you can manage
8. Playing open handed (at any bpm, you still look ambidextrous)
9. Stick twirls and tosses
10. Half time shuffle with lots of ghost notes that are loud enough to make sure drummers in the audience don't miss 'em
Click to expand...

Gee, you've just described my drumming perfectly... Yep, that's THE list every drummers should know by heart :)

bermuda said:
Being advanced and being professional are different concepts. Step one for advanced drummers who want to become professional is to refrain from doing those things that make them so advanced.

Bermuda
Click to expand...

Spot on Jon... this old classic cartoon seems appropriate to illustrate your comment :)
 

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