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  #1  
Old 10-18-2018, 05:58 PM
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Default Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

I had a private lesson with Jim Riley some years ago and he said (I'm paraphrasing here), "If a fill works, it's okay to repeat it. Nobody is going to care that you played the same thing twice. If it's what works, play it again."

This was something he said he was told by a producer/engineer years ago and he took notice of. It seems simple, but left a lasting impression on me. I played a lot of improvisational music, where repeating oneself is considered un-hip, so I tried to carry that over to rock and pop music. But I found I was over-complicating things trying to avoid any repetition when sometimes repetition is exactly what the music needs.

What was a revelation you've had about drumming?
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

do me a favor and listen to the fantastic drumming in this song and think about John's quote while you do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOFCTFXn6xE

oh ... and revelation ... what immediately comes to mind is how the 6 stroke roll in sextuplet changed everything for me

that and sitting on the floor of a stage about 4 feet behind Elvin Jones and watching everything he did ... so many stars aligned that I can't even begin to explain ... nothing has been the same since that night

it was like a magician giving you all his secrets

Last edited by WhoIsTony?; 10-18-2018 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

That is pretty much Exhibit A right there!
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

The concept of "Flow State" and how the brain stores / outputs music. When i first heard Hal Galper speak on this it blew my mind. "the instrument is an illusion" is a great starting point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_7DgCrziI8

something i just found that goes into some more detail: http://www.themelodicdrummer.com/har...-illusion.html

then there are other resources for Flow State like Steven Kotler's (amazing dude & his Lyme disease / surfing cure backstory is amazing) "The Rise of Superman: Decoding the Science of Ultimate Human Performance "
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

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Originally Posted by double_G View Post
The concept of "Flow State" and how the brain stores / outputs music. When i first heard Hal Galper speak on this it blew my mind. "the instrument is an illusion" is a great starting point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_7DgCrziI8

something i just found that goes into some more detail: http://www.themelodicdrummer.com/har...-illusion.html

then there are other resources for Flow State like Steven Kotler's (amazing dude & his Lyme disease / surfing cure backstory is amazing) "The Rise of Superman: Decoding the Science of Ultimate Human Performance "
those Galper videos are all fantastic

I've been watching them with my students for many years
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Old 10-18-2018, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

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I've been watching them with my students for many years
Gods work. Thank you man.
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Old 10-18-2018, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

I had a revelation from a clinic I attended that changed my approach to being a musician, not just being a drummer.

The clinician was Boston area drummer Jerome Deupree, original drummer for the band Morphine. He called up 5 volunteers from the audience, and one-by-one, using the same pair of sticks he handed them and seating them behind his kit on the stage, he had them play a minute or so of the Back in Black/money groove - kick on 1 & 3, snare on 2 & 4, and 8th note hats.

All 5 drummers sounded different, and some were substantially different. I was blown away by how good one guy sounded, and how totally anemic one other guy sounded, all playing the same thing with the same equipment.

He went on to talk about how we as drummers shouldn't get too caught up in trying to obtain specific drums or cymbals or get too caught up trying to sound like some other drummer, and that we're never going to sound like anyone else because simply put, we are not them. He further went on to talk about the importance of developing our own sound and approach to the instrument.

It seems pretty elementary, but when you think about it, many aspiring musicians try too hard to emulate what someone else is doing, going as far as buying specific gear in an effort to capture a sound that will forever elude them because everyone hits the drums just a little bit differently.

That clinic also had a profound affect on my approach to trumpet, which is my main instrument.
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  #8  
Old 10-18-2018, 07:28 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

When I realized that rudiments don't make you better, they free up your limbs independence and allow you to communicate your thoughts more easily. This opened up a whole new thought process, which included ditching the idea that I must play a paradiddle here, a ratamacue there, etc. It uncomplicated things if you will.
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  #9  
Old 10-18-2018, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

It's a small thing and probably a "well, DUH!" thing for most of you... but I more or less cured my tendency to rush fills when I realized that I had as much time to complete the fill as I had time to play the money beat or whatever proceeded it. In other words, if I had 1...2...3...4... to work with BEFORE the fill, then I also had 1...2...3...4... DURING the fill itself. This helped me to relax and not stress about fills so much.

The other super simple thing I realized is to LISTEN TO THE BASS PLAYER. Instead of leading all the time and trying to be the boss, I've learned to lay off and take cues from the bass player. It has made all the difference in the word.
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  #10  
Old 10-18-2018, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

One night, about 6 years ago, I discovered that I had been a playing paradiddle groove thing on the ride, snare and toms my entire life without realizing it was a paradiddle. It was something I picked up somewhere as a kid.

Last edited by New Tricks; 11-01-2018 at 02:49 AM.
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  #11  
Old 10-18-2018, 11:48 PM
Craig J Craig J is offline
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

stop playing so many damn 8th notes
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  #12  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:10 AM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

When I learned to relax and love the four-on-the-floor money beat. I mean, I like to watch people dance and I like getting paid, right?
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  #13  
Old 10-19-2018, 01:09 AM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

Moeller, first time I was shown the basics drumming started to make sense.

Pocket = Paid

After a 3 hour lesson with an 84 year old Jim Chapin who rolled 50 years off when he sat behind a kit, I'll never forget how to hold a pair of sticks again.
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  #14  
Old 10-19-2018, 01:10 AM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

Learning to control stick height was a revolution for me.
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  #15  
Old 10-19-2018, 01:20 AM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

I'm in the rockabilly scene and when I started playing standing up (ala Slim Jim Phantom), I could never get the position right and gigs were tough.
Then I met Bob Stubbs (from Social Distortion) who now plays for the Rhythm Dragons. He showed me the simple trick that he learned from Slim Jim and the world of comfort and control opened up.

A revelation for sure.
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  #16  
Old 10-19-2018, 01:23 AM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

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Originally Posted by CommanderRoss View Post
I'm in the rockabilly scene and when I started playing standing up (ala Slim Jim Phantom), I could never get the position right and gigs were tough.
Then I met Bob Stubbs (from Social Distortion) who now plays for the Rhythm Dragons. He showed me the simple trick that he learned from Slim Jim and the world of comfort and control opened up.

A revelation for sure.
And what trick is that?
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  #17  
Old 10-19-2018, 02:29 AM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

An old saw by now, but my entire drumming world was turned upside down (in a good way) when I realized that:

The sound you hear behind your drumset bears little relationship to what the audience hears in front of your drumset. Tune accordingly!

GeeDeeEmm
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  #18  
Old 10-19-2018, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

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Originally Posted by Craig J View Post
stop playing so many damn 8th notes
This!!!!!! What a difference this makes in a groove.
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  #19  
Old 10-19-2018, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

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Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
do me a favor and listen to the fantastic drumming in this song and think about John's quote while you do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOFCTFXn6xE

oh ... and revelation ... what immediately comes to mind is how the 6 stroke roll in sextuplet changed everything for me

that and sitting on the floor of a stage about 4 feet behind Elvin Jones and watching everything he did ... so many stars aligned that I can't even begin to explain ... nothing has been the same since that night

it was like a magician giving you all his secrets
Thats hysterical, I was thinking you were going to post "I got the news"....
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  #20  
Old 10-19-2018, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

This:

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  #21  
Old 10-19-2018, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

Here's a copy/paste of part of my story from another thread:

During my first 22 years of playing drums, I played either at church or in various Christian bands. Whenever I gigged, it was usually at a Christian-based club, coffee shop, church, youth rally, etc. I never really gigged anywhere outside of this kind of venue. Also keep in mind that a lot of these venues paid nothing. And if they did pay anything, it was so small that it went either to food, gas, or equipment purchases/repairs because we all were poor and our gear was always beat to pieces.

So about three years ago, I hooked up with some guys who were tired of playing bluegrass who actually gigged out quite a bit. We started playing Americana music (a mix of Creedance, Doc Watson, John Prine, Chris Knight, etc.), and we got booked to play a college campus about 4-5 months after we started playing together. I was 40 years old and never played a "secular" venue in my life. We played, people loved us, and we got PAID! And I got to keep my money! It was then that I realized that maybe, just maybe, I was something more than "just a church drummer." It opened my eyes to a whole new world that showed me that, heck, maybe I'm pretty good at what I do.

I wish I would have started a decade or two earlier.
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  #22  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:40 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

Pork Pie Guy, I can relate to what you just posted. I've been mostly a church drummer since I started in 2003 at the tender young age of 33. I've played outside of churches a couple of times, and it's always nice to get paid. Of course I'm a professional level trumpet player, and I've gotten paid to play my horn for a touch over 30 years, so I'm no stranger to gigging and getting paid, but I haven't done it much on drums. With that said, my current church gig is paid - not a ton, but it makes it worth the time I put in to it.
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  #23  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

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Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
I had a private lesson with Jim Riley some years ago and he said (I'm paraphrasing here), "If a fill works, it's okay to repeat it. Nobody is going to care that you played the same thing twice. If it's what works, play it again."

This was something he said he was told by a producer/engineer years ago and he took notice of. It seems simple, but left a lasting impression on me. I played a lot of improvisational music, where repeating oneself is considered un-hip, so I tried to carry that over to rock and pop music. But I found I was over-complicating things trying to avoid any repetition when sometimes repetition is exactly what the music needs.

What was a revelation you've had about drumming?
I had to be re-assured by my first teacher too. I had a weird insecurity that I was playing the same things too much, and my first teacher looked at me funny when I explained that I felt like my drumming was sort of repetitive.

She said "Uh, that's okay. Drumming and music is a repetitive thing". I was on some weird quest to never repeat my fills and be "original" but this is not helpful when everyone else just wants you to play what's best for the song, regardless if that's the same things over and over, or a linear thing.

It's hard not to make rules for yourself. Gotta let that stuff go and do what sounds best even if it doesn't make you look personally great. In the end, it kinda does anyway to the right people.
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  #24  
Old 10-20-2018, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
I had to be re-assured by my first teacher too. I had a weird insecurity that I was playing the same things too much, and my first teacher looked at me funny when I explained that I felt like my drumming was sort of repetitive.

She said "Uh, that's okay. Drumming and music is a repetitive thing". I was on some weird quest to never repeat my fills and be "original" but this is not helpful when everyone else just wants you to play what's best for the song, regardless if that's the same things over and over, or a linear thing.

It's hard not to make rules for yourself. Gotta let that stuff go and do what sounds best even if it doesn't make you look personally great. In the end, it kinda does anyway to the right people.
I used to think that way too. I remember hearing November Rain by Guns n' Roses when it first hit the airwaves, with Matt Sorum playing the same drum fill (or a slight variation of) for pretty much the entire song, and thinking "wow, how completely lazy and unoriginal" (I was super into Rush and Dream Theater and the like at that point). But as I got older, I realized that that's just what the song called for.

Learning to play for the song, regardless of how simple it seems, is a huge turning point for every drummer, I feel. Yet it seems to be hard for some to wrap their heads around the idea that you don't always need to be technically "impressive" with your drumming. The most impressive thing you can do is make the song feel great... Even if that means playing a boring or repetitive part. Hey, it worked for AC/DC - another band I used to dismiss because of the basic/"uninteresting" drumming.
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  #25  
Old 10-20-2018, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

My revaluation (although not new) “less is more.” I play in a pop/rock dance band. A few months ago I decided to scale back my kit to a 3 piece. Kick, snare, and floor. One crash, ride and hi hat. I have gotten more compliments on my playing then I got in my last 40 years. Even my bass player whom I have been working with on and off since 1990 stated how he felt I had one of my best gigs yet a few weeks ago.
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  #26  
Old 10-20-2018, 02:16 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
Here's a copy/paste of part of my story from another thread:

During my first 22 years of playing drums, I played either at church or in various Christian bands. Whenever I gigged, it was usually at a Christian-based club, coffee shop, church, youth rally, etc. I never really gigged anywhere outside of this kind of venue. Also keep in mind that a lot of these venues paid nothing. And if they did pay anything, it was so small that it went either to food, gas, or equipment purchases/repairs because we all were poor and our gear was always beat to pieces.

So about three years ago, I hooked up with some guys who were tired of playing bluegrass who actually gigged out quite a bit. We started playing Americana music (a mix of Creedance, Doc Watson, John Prine, Chris Knight, etc.), and we got booked to play a college campus about 4-5 months after we started playing together. I was 40 years old and never played a "secular" venue in my life. We played, people loved us, and we got PAID! And I got to keep my money! It was then that I realized that maybe, just maybe, I was something more than "just a church drummer." It opened my eyes to a whole new world that showed me that, heck, maybe I'm pretty good at what I do.

I wish I would have started a decade or two earlier.
So how did drumming change or improve your trumpet playing? Just asking.
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  #27  
Old 10-20-2018, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

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Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
My revaluation (although not new) “less is more.” I play in a pop/rock dance band. A few months ago I decided to scale back my kit to a 3 piece. Kick, snare, and floor. One crash, ride and hi hat. I have gotten more compliments on my playing then I got in my last 40 years. Even my bass player whom I have been working with on and off since 1990 stated how he felt I had one of my best gigs yet a few weeks ago.
Welcome to Drummerworld, where all your drumming questions get answered and more...Like Japanese toilets :)

The longer people try to avoid this, playing less, the longer they put off their own happiness.
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  #28  
Old 10-20-2018, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

I had a revelation when I was younger and playing with a few cover bands.

I used to have trouble learning structure/arrangements of new tunes. I tried making cheat sheets, and full transcriptions, but those proved to be cumbersome.

Then one day I was talking to a guy at the local GC and he told me that he just focused on learning the lyrics of new songs and that is how he learned them.

I've been doing that since with great results!
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  #29  
Old 10-20-2018, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

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Originally Posted by Capital D View Post
I had a revelation when I was younger and playing with a few cover bands.

I used to have trouble learning structure/arrangements of new tunes. I tried making cheat sheets, and full transcriptions, but those proved to be cumbersome.

Then one day I was talking to a guy at the local GC and he told me that he just focused on learning the lyrics of new songs and that is how he learned them.

I've been doing that since with great results!
I do the same thing. It's so much easier if you learn the words to the song. Every band I play with wants to give me a mic to sing backups, cuz they see me behind the drums singing along to every song. Singing is not my strong suit though, so I squash that idea pretty quickly.
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  #30  
Old 10-20-2018, 09:50 PM
Midiglitch Midiglitch is offline
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
My revaluation (although not new) “less is more.” I play in a pop/rock dance band. A few months ago I decided to scale back my kit to a 3 piece. Kick, snare, and floor. One crash, ride and hi hat. I have gotten more compliments on my playing then I got in my last 40 years. Even my bass player whom I have been working with on and off since 1990 stated how he felt I had one of my best gigs yet a few weeks ago.
Not to hijack this thread (new thread?) but I'd love to hear more about this. Maybe some pics of your setup and let us know what type of music you play - how you approach fills in covers if you do any, that sort of thing. I think a lot of people like the idea of 'less' but it can be hard to put that into practise!
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  #31  
Old 10-21-2018, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
It's hard not to make rules for yourself. Gotta let that stuff go
For me, this was the biggest revelation; that there are no rules and to just let go.

I recall as a teenager watching various drummers on MTV, and not watching them as examples, but watching them as "ok, here are the rules..." And my drum teachers perhaps didn't help that with "here are the formal books..."

Even after being in numerous bands, and giging, etc, I'd sometimes find myself struggling with a simple little thing now and then, and if I stepped back to think, ok, "why is this simple thing difficult?" I'd realize I'm trying to fit something into predefined rules rather than realizing it just is what it is.
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  #32  
Old 10-21-2018, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

The day in my early 20's when I stopped comparing myself and my level of playing to other drummers I looked up to in general and in my family.
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  #33  
Old 10-21-2018, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

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Originally Posted by cutaway79 View Post
I do the same thing. It's so much easier if you learn the words to the song. Every band I play with wants to give me a mic to sing backups, cuz they see me behind the drums singing along to every song. Singing is not my strong suit though, so I squash that idea pretty quickly.
Just set up a mic that isn't plugged in. Haha!
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  #34  
Old 10-21-2018, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

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Originally Posted by yammyfan View Post
It's a small thing and probably a "well, DUH!" thing for most of you... but I more or less cured my tendency to rush fills when I realized that I had as much time to complete the fill as I had time to play the money beat or whatever proceeded it. In other words, if I had 1...2...3...4... to work with BEFORE the fill, then I also had 1...2...3...4... DURING the fill itself. This helped me to relax and not stress about fills so much.

The other super simple thing I realized is to LISTEN TO THE BASS PLAYER. Instead of leading all the time and trying to be the boss, I've learned to lay off and take cues from the bass player. It has made all the difference in the word.
^^ Both of the above, but the second bit also depends on the bass player. S/he has to lock into me as much as I have to lock into her/him, enabling me to do my job, and I've played with some bassists who don't even seem to know I 'm there.
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Last edited by Magenta; 10-21-2018 at 08:24 PM.
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  #35  
Old 10-31-2018, 02:22 PM
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

Picture as requested.
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  #36  
Old 10-31-2018, 11:11 PM
Midiglitch Midiglitch is offline
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

Smoothly: Lovelykit, Clean look. What ride cymbal are you using?

I've had a couple of revelations very recently:
When practising: 'don't listen to the click, listen to the sounds coming from the kit!' Sounds obvious, but playing with a gap click or a click set to whole notes (I.e 30bmp if I'm I'm practising a groove at 120) has made me realise this. Instead of trying to hit the clicks I'm paying much more attention to the feel and sound of the groove I am creating.

When playing live: 'don't think'. I'm not sure how else I can put this one but if I can't play a groove fluidly then thinking about it doesn't help. So my practise is all about internalising those grooves, and my live playing is about letting what has been internalised come out. If a groove isn't fully internalised then a simpler one will come out, and that usually sounds better than 'trying' to play the 'right' groove.

I expect most on here are a long way beyond this though, I've not been playing drums for that long.
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  #37  
Old 10-31-2018, 11:33 PM
Trigger Trigger is offline
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

Swiss triplets made me finally realize how helpful rudiments are, which in turn made me understand tool's drumming a lot more. turns out most of his patterns are rudiments of some sort.
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Old 10-31-2018, 11:38 PM
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Ruok Ruok is offline
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

Not really anything that important, but to me it was.

When I was much younger I remember seeing a band playing live on TV. The drummer was wailing away like a baboon. Though he was bashing really hard, I could hardly hear him in the music mix. The drums were just buried under all the other instruments. Then, on another day and another band playing live on tv, I saw a drummer just tapping his kit. His arms barely moved and it seemed he was just gently caressing the drums, and yet the sound was big and nice and up front with total clarity. It was then I realized just how important those in charge of mic'ing and mixing the instruments really are.
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Old 11-01-2018, 12:52 AM
Chollyred Chollyred is offline
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

No specific time, but the same revelation I had with golf after watching or playing with others. I may suck, but I'm having fun what I'm doing. I'll always try to get better, but the revelation was "if it's not fun, it's not worth doing!"
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Old 11-01-2018, 02:48 AM
New Tricks New Tricks is offline
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Default Re: Talk about a drumming revelation you've had

Another revelation.

Drums are loud, especially the snare and some crashes.

When I was a youngster, I thought I had to hit hard to keep up with the amps. It must have sounded like hell out front.
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