The matching snare

Having a different opinion to the so called experts on here is not passive aggressive, its just my opinion.

And so who exactly is 'so-calling' anybody experts on here?
You are completely right, to each his own.
But its not 'obtuse' to have a differing opinion, or make a simple observation that there is a huge market and production of 'kit-less' snares, being sold to experts and non-experts alike.
 
Mikel, hiding behind the 'just my opinion' clause is weak, weak, weak.

I was "Passive aggressive" but now I am "Weak", well thanks for the insights into my personality failings, nice to know you are not simply knowledgeable when it comes to drumming but dabble in psychoanalisis, top man.

So you are suggesting your opinion is not simply your opinion but fact.

I don't hide behind anything, I stated my opinion, that you clearly take issue with, so what, get over it. As I say, the snare I like or am prepared to use is my opinion, worth no more or no less than anyone's.
 
Hiding behind 'opinion' arguments is a false construct. It might work in music (e.g. what you like, what you prefer) but when it comes to factual information, it falls apart. Actually, I am pretty good at psychology and observing behaviour (Hell, it's my bloody job) but I wouldn't pretend to be able to analyse that many constructs of a personality over a limited communication form like this.

I haven't said that you're 'weak', just that your arguments are.

Sure, the snare you want to use is entirely up to you. The fact is that most kit snares in comparison to stand-alone designs are limited. The fact is that most of the drummers that I've met that use kit snares have limited knowledge of drum equipment (not all, I haven't made a sweeping statement like that) and the fact is that the most users of this forum exhibit greater knowledge of equipment than drummers in community at large based on my observations. These are all facts as I've observed them. No opinions there.

As for passive-aggressive?

Mikel said:
If the "more knowledgable" on here don't want to hear a different point of view they could ad an experts only tag to there post.

That is a passive-aggressive statement. Presenting a 'passive' posture but doing so in an aggressive or sarcastic way. I haven't said that you're passive-aggressive, just that you have used passive-aggressive barbs against me in this thread.
 
Hiding behind 'opinion' arguments is a false construct. It might work in music (e.g. what you like, what you prefer) but when it comes to factual information, it falls apart. Actually, I am pretty good at psychology and observing behaviour (Hell, it's my bloody job) but I wouldn't pretend to be able to analyse that many constructs of a personality over a limited communication form like this.

I haven't said that you're 'weak', just that your arguments are.

Sure, the snare you want to use is entirely up to you. The fact is that most kit snares in comparison to stand-alone designs are limited. The fact is that most of the drummers that I've met that use kit snares have limited knowledge of drum equipment (not all, I haven't made a sweeping statement like that) and the fact is that the most users of this forum exhibit greater knowledge of equipment than drummers in community at large based on my observations. These are all facts as I've observed them. No opinions there.

As for passive-aggressive?



That is a passive-aggressive statement. Presenting a 'passive' posture but doing so in an aggressive or sarcastic way. I haven't said that you're passive-aggressive, just that you have used passive-aggressive barbs against me in this thread.

Nothing passive about my statement mate, I mean it in its fullest sense. So I made a PA statement but I am not PA, have you finished all your training?

Well, a snare that comes with a £700 shell pack is not as good, or well made, as a £400 stand alone snare, well, who would have thought.

Most drummers on here know more than most drummers in the community at large, blah blah.? You have done a survey of a meaningful number of drummers to prove this "Fact" have you? A drummer is a drummer is a drummer, what we use, how we tune, the heads we chose are all individual taste. Your comments about other drummers that don't agree with you, "You might not be able to tell a water melon from a bass drum, but its not my problem" are breathtaking in there arrogance.

If you want to wast money on a "Name" snare merely because it is in fashion, or was used back in the day by a famous drummer, that is you concern. If a wooden snare comes with a kit of the same material and sounds dead and boxy there is clearly a fault with the shell of the individual item and it needs returning to the manufacturer.

Have a nice day.
 
This thread is seriously affecting my positive vibe.

Don't go to the dark place Matt! It'll all be ok. We're all still friends here.

Look at the Monkey, look at the silly monkey playing the drums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nge1GT51QoE


Just put a robin egg blue Tempus on layaway this weekend and now I'm hankerin' for a matching kit. So excited, been looking for a Tempus snare for some time now.
 
Matching here, but only because it came with the shell pack. Ddrum Dominion, red/black duo fade. The snare is a 13" X 7" Maple and sounds great to my ear. My other snares are all 14" steel and or aluminum and don't sound as good. This is the first set I've ever had that came with a matching snare.
 
Most drummers on here know more than most drummers in the community at large, blah blah.? You have done a survey of a meaningful number of drummers to prove this "Fact" have you? A drummer is a drummer is a drummer, what we use, how we tune, the heads we chose are all individual taste.
Not wishing to get into a pissing contest, but I have to agree with Duncan's assertion on this one. I meet many drummers, hundreds of them each year, & the number that are clueless about sounds & how to create them is mind-blowing. I'm not talking about finer nuances or personal preferences here, I'm talking the basics.

This weekend, as a departure to my normal routine, I'm running sound at a local festival. I did this event last year too, & I was really surprised at the level of sheer ignorance amongst the drummers on basics of presenting an instrument that performs appropriately for the situation. Granted, few of these were pro players, but they weren't beginners either. Out of the 16 drummers I ran sound for last year, only two of them had kits that came close to sounding acceptable, most were terribly tuned, & at least 4 were in such a state, I had to replace drums or quickly re-head drums. This wasn't "I'm a poor musician & can't afford good gear", this was "I've got good gear but absolutely no idea how to get it sounding up to a reasonable standard". One guy even turned up with a DW Collectors kit with a centre 12" diameter "port", the drum 2/3rds full of laundry held in by duct tape, the front head ripped & flapping away, & with a G1 coated batter head. WTF am I supposed to do with that? This was a band that had just come off 3 more festivals in the last two weeks. I can only assume the other sound guys didn't give a crap, or couldn't be bothered mentioning it to him.
 
Sorry, it's my bad. I'm kind of slow on the uptake sometimes. I didn't get anything. I'm roping a snare, but there's no snare, there's a cow. Sorry, I'm not at 100% today lol.

Sorry Larry my humour can be obscure / obtuse at times..... I used the slang term "snare" as in "to catch or trap". So in that picture you had a drum (40 gal type) with something youd "snared" that was different to the drum (the cows head)..... a visual poke by me at you like a "snare" thats different to your drum. Sorry a bit out there I know.

As far as matching snares go, I got the impression that Larrys original or main point ( correct me if I am wrong Larry) is that a different snare looks much better to him than a matching snare.

I would certainly agree that there are some fantastic looking snares out there (regardless of quality). As for making the drummer "look" better funny how a different snare can make a drummer look more like a "good drummer" yet I get the impression that people "look down" on frankenstein kits.

If its a quality issue yes replacing the snare first as it is the drum most often used, but the bass / kick must be a close second.

So why not a different bass ? On beginner / medium kits you get a snare, a fairly basic cymbal pack ( B8s ZBTs etc) and either a larger bass (22 / 24) with 12/13/16 toms or a smaller (20) with fusion 10/12/14 toms.

(I once asked if I could buy a new drum without Meinl HCS cymbals / snare and I was told no...thats what the package is.....)

So if we are focusing on sound rather than looks why not more frankenstein kits, or drums in at least the medium range in component parts ?

I assume the medium / lower quality kits come with everything so that a drummer with a decent budget that wants to buy in at a medium point gets a kit they can take home and play immediately.

Moving on I have seen the arguments here that members are more likely to be experienced, know how to tune and buy snares to suit their style and voice.

Im not sure how statistically valid that is, I suspect those who post on this forum may be experienced, others may feel they are not "up there" enough to add a comment, or worse feel a fear of their post being derided (as I suspect anyone reading this threads bunfight may be scared of being the target of.)

I get Larrys Aesthetics idea and its one thats inclusive of anyone who wants to post (aesthetics being a view we can differ on regardless of experience)

As for people buy new snares to suit their sound, sure but some are finding their sound and are happy with the snare they got with the kit.

Its interesting board wise as its often said a good drummer can play a pie tin and make it sound good, then its a decent drummer buys a snare to suit their sound........ a bit confusing in message to those starting out even if the concepts are not mutually exclusive (ie a good player can make pie tin sound good, but they prefer to pay a pot instead)

Also the mesage more often than not is buy a second hand kit and focus on getting decent cymbals.

So I would suggest to new drummers if you like the sound of your snare that comes with the kit, dont buy another until you want a different sound and know how to get it ( and dont feel a lesser being if you ARE happy with your snare) or if you want a different look ...well depends if you can afford to I guess......unless you are happy buying a cheapie.

For me I was happy with my beginner kit and add ons....Now I have a frankenstein kit built over time.

All my toms / snares are wood. In my own snobbery I think of metal drums as cheap and nasty.... but thats an aesthetic view before all you Luddy fans beat me up !!
 
I currently own 8 kits. 5 of which have matching snares. Of course I own around 85 snares so often I take which ever snare I want to hear on the day.
 
That's all I was saying, a different snare to me looks more interesting than a matching snare, with a few exceptions. Having the snare match just seems boring to me. It's all just a looks thing anyway and I wouldn't NOT play a matching snare, but it wouldn't be my first choice either.

I tend to use one snare for everything. To each their own.
 
I don't mind a matching snare depending on the kit. When I see an Absolute Custom with a matching snare, well I know that snare is awesome on its own, regardless of color. A PDP x7 or Catalina Maple not so much. I personally like the different snare look, but it has to go with the kit. Like a metal snare. Metal snares go with any kit. My snare is finished in natural satin and goes with anything. Easy to drop in place when using a backline and still look professional. What I don't like to see is a red snare behind a blue kit, or white on black, green on purple, etc., etc. Any color that doesn't match the kit color , to me, that looks unprofessional. With the exception of a "jellybean" kit, those just look cool.
 
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Does anyone play a snare with the same finish as your toms? Not many drummers do this from what I can tell.

Wow. This thread sure took on a life of its own! Larry, was this a generic question and did you expect the responses you got?

The way I saw the question was 'Starter kits an most mid-range kits come with a matching snare. Do people use (or find value with) these snares?'

I though this was a great question, and added a follow up question along those same lines.

High end shell packs normally have a snare as a separate item. But that too is a high end snare, probably valued at more than the cost of a whole entry kit. Plus, not only can you get that high end snare in the same finish, most of the time you can get multiple sizes and configurations as well. The question that I added was if people put an esthetic value to having a matching high end snare, since you are going to know what you are getting up front, If you buy a high end snare, it is probably going to sound good no matter what the shell and finish are.

My 2 cents. ;-)
 
As I mentioned earlier, I own approx' 85 snare drums. They range in size and type as well as old to new. Each drum is a singular voice. To me a fine snare drum is a work of true beauty.

I have played and inspected hundreds of kits with their snare drums. To me a matching snare is usually not a poor voice within the drum kit. As a rule they fit quite nicely. Whether that is what the player wants is up to the player.

Are there experts here on DW? Yes. There are also amateurs and semi pros. Does this matter? At times yes. Being a professional myself I often witness bad advice. I also see good advice. Ultimately this does not matter. The reader will decide.

Most snare drums can be made to sound good if the drummer has the ability to tune well and choose the correct heads and wires for his drum. I recently bought a Sonor Martini kit. The kit with the 14" bass drum with wooden hoops. Great little kit. With it comes a cheap 12x5" Chinese made snare drum. One would think it quite useless at face value.However, due to my knowledge of snares I was able to get it sounding great.

So, my first thought was "this drum has the potential to sound thin like a tin can." How I addressed this is as follows.

I threw away the cheap Chinese heads and dreadful wire. I figured a two ply batter over a controlled reso head would be best. So I fitted an Aquarian Response II coated over a Hi Performance reso (the head with the two white patches). I then fitted a Puresound brass classic wire. Tuned it carefully and BANG! It is a great sounding little drum and I plan to take it out on a gig. Just for the hell of it.

What I have learned over the years dealing with all the drums I have owned and others I worked on during my teching years is this: good drums are versatile. Often all it takes is a little time experimenting with tuning and using different heads and wires. On my days off I will often take five snares and spend the day screwing around with them. Changing hoops, wires and heads just for fun. It is amazing the possibilities one discovers.

A matching snare drum fitted with wildly different heads to the kit will have its own voice. Then add to that the player's individual touch.....

Snare drums are great. Better to celebrate then berate.
 
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Here is my cheap Chinese made Sonor Martini steel 12x5" snare drums set up to sound great. Forgive the poor light.

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