Vinnie Colaiuta

[foursticks]

This Sunday I'm going to see Herbie, and Vinnies on drums! I can't wait!

Should be damn good, though I really don't know what to expect.

Originally Posted by foursticks

This Sunday I'm going to see Herbie, and Vinnies on drums! I can't wait!

Should be damn good, though I really don't know what to expect.

Thanks for the info, man, I had no idea they were coming to England. I see they're playing in London on Saturday...very tempting. Nathan East on bass too. Nice.

Thanks, take care, and play on! :)

[syoshii]

Vinnie is coming to Japan w/ Herbie in December and sure I will be there!!!

[KzSgDrummer]

Originally Posted by jonescrusher

Just put this up, an amusing exerpt from 'We Don't Mess Around', a Zappa showcase which I presume was broadcast on German TV. Zappa's bodyguard giving an insight into the dynamics of the band, and Vinnie, at the time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPuMnhRn4QQ

Ahhh awesome, thank you! On the last page I posted the MP3 of "Seal Call Fusion Music" haha. Please get that clip up next..?

[jonescrusher]

Originally Posted by KzSgDrummer

Ahhh awesome, thank you! On the last page I posted the MP3 of "Seal Call Fusion Music" haha. Please get that clip up next..?

No probs, was gonna do that next....

[KzSgDrummer]

Great, please let us know when it's up... like I said before, that two and a half minutes should be required viewing for everyone here. Vinnie shows his signature flare and brilliance, while engaging in some of the silliest and funniest of discourse with Zappa and the hilarious Tommy Mars.. LOVE IT!

Originally Posted by foursticks

This Sunday I'm going to see Herbie, and Vinnies on drums! I can't wait!

Should be damn good, though I really don't know what to expect.

Now THAT'S gonna be a show! Have fun, foursticks....Play on!

Originally Posted by jonescrusher

Just put this up, an amusing exerpt from 'We Don't Mess Around', a Zappa showcase which I presume was broadcast on German TV. Zappa's bodyguard giving an insight into the dynamics of the band, and Vinnie, at the time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPuMnhRn4QQ

Hee...hee...Yea, sounds about right, jonescrusher. That was normal for those Zappa hounds...Thanks and Play On!

[jonescrusher]

For your viewing pleasure KzSg, a little Seal Call Fusion Music. That disco beat floors me, an early glimpse of the Vinnie Genius.

Apologies that it's a little out of sync, a bit annoying, hope it doesn't diminish the viewing enjoyment too much...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPobB_1kZao

Edit - to the Mods, any way we can get that spelling mistake in the name rectified, it's a bit of a shame if we can't spell the world's greatest living drummer's name correctly, no?

[KzSgDrummer]

"It's a Pendercki number"

"Actually, cryogenics is expanding... Day by -- Dayyeeeee!"


It's crazy how almost unrecognizable Vinnie is under all that hair and those glasses. My first viewing of Vinnie with Zappa was the 1978 SNL clips, and I didn't even realize it was him until I connected the dots and realized the guy playing Vinnie's yellow Gretchs was in fact Vinnie.

Also, the synching is quite fine..only a few points do you really notice it. Again, a big ol' THANKS.

[jonescrusher]

It's amazing too how his set up has evolved over the years - that snare angle is unrecognizable! And matched grip all the way!!

[foursticks]

Originally Posted by michael drums

Now THAT'S gonna be a show! Have fun, foursticks....Play on!

Thanks man, I'll post my thoughts of it on here.

[KzSgDrummer]

Originally Posted by jonescrusher

that snare angle is unrecognizable! And matched grip all the way!!

Right. And of course that snare was at that angle because of how rediculously low to the ground he sat back then. His knees were higher than his hop bones, and you could barely see his head over the toms!

Originally Posted by foursticks

Thanks man, I'll post my thoughts of it on here.

You got it, fs. Thanks, I'll keep a look out for it. Play On!

Oh, yea...Love that "Buddy" quote. It speaks volumes...Peace

Sitting that low was the trend in the late 70s and early 80s. We were all looking for the lowest thrones possible He probably still sits pretty low but it doesn't look as low because he's playing much smaller and lower drums. If you've seen the Zappa/SNL thing, you'll notice how big those Gretsch drums are and how high the toms are mounted.

Originally Posted by KzSgDrummer

Right. And of course that snare was at that angle because of how rediculously low to the ground he sat back then. His knees were higher than his hop bones, and you could barely see his head over the toms!

[KzSgDrummer]

Well, the toms might have been big and mounted pretty high, but that bass drum also helps with the overall illusion, since it's only a 20". But yeah, point taken on the whole sitting low trend back then. What was the appeal? Physically it doesn't make much sense (to me at least).

Gary Chaffee influence perhaps? I say that because a friend of mine studied with Chaffee for many years and he sat that low. It could have been because Vinnie was doing at the time as well. I don't know.

Sitting that low may have something to do with weight distribution There's less weight on your legs sitting like that may help with your footwork. I tried it for a while and decided it wasn't for me. My thighs are nearly parallel with the floor again.

Originally Posted by KzSgDrummer

But yeah, point taken on the whole sitting low trend back then. What was the appeal? Physically it doesn't make much sense (to me at least).

[finnhiggins]

Originally Posted by KzSgDrummer

Well, the toms might have been big and mounted pretty high, but that bass drum also helps with the overall illusion, since it's only a 20". But yeah, point taken on the whole sitting low trend back then. What was the appeal? Physically it doesn't make much sense (to me at least).

Agreed. But then, lots of drummers' seat height doesn't make sense to me. Every time I go play on a kit here in NZ I have to drop the seat dramatically to get my legs parallel with the floor - every other drummer seems to sit much, much higher than I do and I honestly don't get it. It seems harder to balance, your legs have to work harder to lift, and so forth. Odd. I sat at a pretty normal height at Drumtech, didn't have to adjust things much, but coming over to New Zealand every single drummer seems to sit about as high as the one French guy at Drumtech who sat higher than everybody else in the entire year...

Originally Posted by finnhiggins

Agreed. But then, lots of drummers' seat height doesn't make sense to me. Every time I go play on a kit here in NZ I have to drop the seat dramatically to get my legs parallel with the floor - every other drummer seems to sit much, much higher than I do and I honestly don't get it. It seems harder to balance, your legs have to work harder to lift, and so forth. Odd. I sat at a pretty normal height at Drumtech, didn't have to adjust things much, but coming over to New Zealand every single drummer seems to sit about as high as the one French guy at Drumtech who sat higher than everybody else in the entire year...

Thats because they are all Ringo Fans.

[syoshii]

Sitting too low is not good for your knees and lower back. When you sit low and kick the bass drum or high-hat pedal, more reaction force comes over to your knees, your hip bones and your back, and it will hurt them.
If you sit higher, the reaction force will not come up to your knees and back that much.

And I guess it depends on how you play the pedal...I mean heel-up or heel-down. If you play mainly heel-up, higher seat will help you to kick the pedal more easily because you can use the weight of your legs. If you play heel-down, maybe lower seat is more comfortable in kicking the bass drum.

[tomgadd]

colaiuta is a great drummer...he gets better and better..
saw him 20 years ago at frankfurter musikmesse doing clinics for
yamaha...his drumming was great, but as a person he spoiled and was
very unfriendly to the audience...
thought he "was really on"...
remember some interviews from the 80ies, i think one in drums-&percussion,
a german drummer-magazine, where he states gadd was no influence on him...and
some other obvisouly strange stuff...

nevertheless,
bought a cd "Chris Botti - 2005 - To Love Again" , very tasteful drumming with brushes..
great cd btw

Originally Posted by tomgadd

his drumming was great, but as a person he spoiled and was
very unfriendly to the audience... thought he "was really on"...

Remember, he's a non-spotlight musician put into an unfamiliar and uncomfortable situation and most of us would probably come across as unfriendly and/or spoiled. I remember the Zildjian Day in Boston he was very nervous with the audience.

remember some interviews from the 80ies, i think one in drums-&percussion,
a german drummer-magazine, where he states gadd was no influence on him...and
some other obvisouly strange stuff...

Tony Williams was his biggest influence and it's quite possible that Gadd wasn't. I don't see why he'd say something like that if it wasn't true. What other strange stuff did he say?

A section from his 1987 Modern Drummer interview...

RF: What kind of bad habits?

VC: My left hand is kind of funky.

RF: How so?

VC: The posture of my left hand is not so good. My sitting posture is weird now. I was going through a little changing thing before. It was a period that had to do with my changing the way I approach the drums, and it changed the way I thought about playing.

RF: Attitude?

VC: Oh yeah, it was an attitude - a concept. It made me feel a certain way, and I just wanted to approach the drums from that angle when I played, which is part of the reason I sat so low.

RF: You're speaking in the past tense.

VC: I've raised my seat height.

RF: Why?

VC: First of all, because I was starting to develop some lower-back problems. One night, I made a move while I was playing, and I was frozen still. I screamed out, and it was horrible. So I've been gradually changing it; I'm still changing it, because I want to get better leverage. My right foot feels weird, which I think is partially because it's still healing since I fractured it.

Originally Posted by syoshii

Sitting too low is not good for your knees and lower back. When you sit low and kick the bass drum or high-hat pedal, more reaction force comes over to your knees, your hip bones and your back, and it will hurt them.
If you sit higher, the reaction force will not come up to your knees and back that much.

And I guess it depends on how you play the pedal...I mean heel-up or heel-down. If you play mainly heel-up, higher seat will help you to kick the pedal more easily because you can use the weight of your legs. If you play heel-down, maybe lower seat is more comfortable in kicking the bass drum.

[KzSgDrummer]

The "Gadd was no influence on me" comment seems more than a bit off. I've heard Vinnie do the Gadd fill (you know.. 16th note triplets foot snare snare snare hightom lowtom) a ton, and him and Zappa sorta made fun of Gadd's omnipresence back in the day at the end of Frank's (arguably) most famous album, Joe's Garage.

Maybe Vinnie didn't actively listen to and study Steve, but at the least he definitely did copy some things from him in the beginning of his career.

I think I know what fill you're talking about. We associate it with Gadd, but HE may have ripped it off from someone but was the first to have it heard on a hit record. Vinnie may have stolen it from someone else as well. Gadd was influencing a lot of people. Musicians rip off everybody. Look at Rush and Tom Sawyer. Every drummer I knew in 1980 was ripping off Neil Peart thinking he came up with those fills. Then you go an listen to John Bonham and hear it played 10 years earlier. Heck, he could have stolen it from someone.

I can understand why he'd say that Gadd wasn't an influence. He really wasn't listening to anything Gadd was playing. He listened to Tony Williams and Elvin Jones and Buddy. They became his influences. Tony Williams was such an influence that he's got the same yellow Gretsch set.

I think part of the problem disassociating Vinnie and Gadd is right from Vinnie's page on this site. "A producer once told Vinnie Colaiuta that if you threw Tony Williams and Steve Gadd into a blender, Vinnie would be the tasteful concoction."

I'm still thinking about the Gadd/Zappa thing. Could he be making fun of studio musicians in general (i.e. Yo Cats)? Or Vinnie wanting to be studio player (clone) LIKE Gadd? I've heard different spins on that.

Originally Posted by KzSgDrummer

The "Gadd was no influence on me" comment seems more than a bit off. I've heard Vinnie do the Gadd fill (you know.. 16th note triplets foot snare snare snare hightom lowtom) a ton, and him and Zappa sorta made fun of Gadd's omnipresence back in the day at the end of Frank's (arguably) most famous album, Joe's Garage.

Maybe Vinnie didn't actively listen to and study Steve, but at the least he definitely did copy some things from him in the beginning of his career.

[syoshii]

Oh thank you, mlehnertz! I didn't know about this Vinnie interview! So he actually had a back problem...

As for his comment on Gadd, I guess just he was young :-)
He said "Steve Gadd changed my life" at the American Drummer Achievement Award and told the story about he and Steve Smith riding a bus to NY to hear Gadd playing.
Well, actually Vinnie said the same thing like "Buddy Rich changed my life" at the Buddy Rich Memorial Scholarship Concert, and Vinnie and Steve Smith also riding a bus to NY to hear Tony Williams (they went to hear Herbie's first VSOP concert in 1976).

Or maybe his unfriendliness came from his thought about those clinics. When I talked w/ Vinnie about 2 years ago he told me he didin't like a clinic with a large audience (just like Zildjian Days) because it's more like a show than a clinic. He said he wanted to do a real clinic, with a small group of serious students only. He was even thinking about doing a clinic at high school.

[finnhiggins]

Originally Posted by syoshii

Or maybe his unfriendliness came from his thought about those clinics. When I talked w/ Vinnie about 2 years ago he told me he didin't like a clinic with a large audience (just like Zildjian Days) because it's more like a show than a clinic. He said he wanted to do a real clinic, with a small group of serious students only. He was even thinking about doing a clinic at high school.

I can totally understand that. I've actually been discussing this exact point today with Jazzgregg, off-forum. I think in general there's only really three kinds of clinics:

1) Clinics given by people who can't speak in public, but try anyway. These usually suck, because while the drummer (or any other musician, for that matter) might have a lot to say they're really unsuccessful at saying it, and any time they spend off the kit is really just time wasted.

2) Clinics given by people who can speak in public, but different audience members are either bored (if they're any good) or completely lost (if they're not) depending on whether the clinic is being pitched at a simplistic or advanced level. These stand the best chance of being any good depending on who you are and what's being pitched, but even then you have to tolerate horrible, horrible Q&A sessions where audience members ask questions that make you want to cry tears of rage at their sheer pointlessness.

3) Clinics given by people who just shut up and play. These are fine in that they don't suffer the problems of the other two kinds of clinic, but generally speaking I'd rather hear most drummers play with a band anyway. It's not like I have trouble hearing drums, and there are very few drummers I can think of that I'd be willing to watch play unaccompanied for hours. And if somebody's just going to play to a backing track I'd rather have the band there anyway.

I can totally understand why Vinnie wouldn't enjoy the environment. He's either going to have to dumb down what he has to say to a stupendous degree (the number of people on the planet who can even figure out what the hell Vinnie is talking about when he gets going on a topic he finds interesting has to be pretty small), talk to 1% of the room about stuff that the other 99% are going to totally miss the point of or play things that he'd rather be playing in a musical situation. Why do it?

[KzSgDrummer]

Originally Posted by mlehnertz

I can understand why he'd say that Gadd wasn't an influence. He really wasn't listening to anything Gadd was playing...

I'm still thinking about the Gadd/Zappa thing. Could he be making fun of studio musicians in general (i.e. Yo Cats)? Or Vinnie wanting to be studio player (clone) LIKE Gadd? I've heard different spins on that.

On the first part, I know Vinnie was digging Gadd by 1978 (at the beginning of his time with Zappa), because if you watch the video clips jonescrusher posted above, you can see Vinnie is wearing a Stuff t-shirt, which was Gadd's defacto NYC club band back then. So he definitely knew of and was seriously checking out Gadd's work back then..

And as to what regard Zappa held Gadd in, who the heck knows... he makes no intonation one way or the other on Green Rosetta. My guess is that Frank had nothing against Steve musically or personally, except for the fact that he was literally all over the place at the time and thus was an easy target for any kind of jabs, good or bad.

But I haven't heard any spins on Frank's views on this topic either way, so please divulge--

And the Zildjian Day in Boston this exact situation came up. He was describing something about polyrhythms and odd time and the audience was totally clueless.

Originally Posted by finnhiggins

I can totally understand why Vinnie wouldn't enjoy the environment. He's either going to have to dumb down what he has to say to a stupendous degree (the number of people on the planet who can even figure out what the hell Vinnie is talking about when he gets going on a topic he finds interesting has to be pretty small), talk to 1% of the room about stuff that the other 99% are going to totally miss the point of...

The other idea is that Frank is busting Vinnie chops and that Vinnie is "Steve Gadd's clone flown in at triple scale no less" but can't find the beat. Also a jab at the studio guys (and audience?) in that "anybody that buys this album doesn't care if there are good musicians on it"?

It makes sense to a degree.

Originally Posted by KzSgDrummer

And as to what regard Zappa held Gadd in, who the heck knows... he makes no intonation one way or the other on Green Rosetta. My guess is that Frank had nothing against Steve musically or personally, except for the fact that he was literally all over the place at the time and thus was an easy target for any kind of jabs, good or bad.

But I haven't heard any spins on Frank's views on this topic either way, so please divulge--

But does this make Gadd an influence or is it simply someone that he went to see at a gig with Steve Smith? I'm not sure. I could go and see Virgil Donati, be impressed with his playing beyond belief, but he'll never be much of a drumming influence for me. Maybe he simply dug the band as a whole and not simply Gadd?

Everyone likes to compare Vinnie to Gadd and it often seems like Vinnie wants to distance himself from the comparison. Maybe that was the meaning in the original comment? Who knows.

Originally Posted by KzSgDrummer

On the first part, I know Vinnie was digging Gadd by 1978 (at the beginning of his time with Zappa), because if you watch the video clips jonescrusher posted above, you can see Vinnie is wearing a Stuff t-shirt, which was Gadd's defacto NYC club band back then. So he definitely knew of and was seriously checking out Gadd's work back then..

[kaseli]

I'm a bit surprised that you guys put Weckl in the same category as Gadd and Colaiuta. In my opinion Weckly doesn't play nearly as creatively as the other two.

Look at the achievements of each. I have to say that I liked what Weckl did with the Chick Corea Electric Band years back, but outside of that there isn't much to write home about.

Gadd and Colaiuta on the other hand have recorded some of the most creative and musically tastiest drumming you can find.


Sorry Weckly fans.
He's still better than me...

[Stitch Kaboodle]

Check out "live and very plugged in" by Dave Weckl. It's only fair.

Originally Posted by Stitch Kaboodle

Check out "live and very plugged in" by Dave Weckl. It's only fair.

I can absolutely guarantee that would make no difference to his opinion.

[syoshii]

Originally Posted by finnhiggins

I can totally understand that. I've actually been discussing this exact point today with Jazzgregg, off-forum. I think in general there's only really three kinds of clinics:

1) Clinics given by people who can't speak in public, but try anyway. These usually suck, because while the drummer (or any other musician, for that matter) might have a lot to say they're really unsuccessful at saying it, and any time they spend off the kit is really just time wasted.

2) Clinics given by people who can speak in public, but different audience members are either bored (if they're any good) or completely lost (if they're not) depending on whether the clinic is being pitched at a simplistic or advanced level. These stand the best chance of being any good depending on who you are and what's being pitched, but even then you have to tolerate horrible, horrible Q&A sessions where audience members ask questions that make you want to cry tears of rage at their sheer pointlessness.

3) Clinics given by people who just shut up and play. These are fine in that they don't suffer the problems of the other two kinds of clinic, but generally speaking I'd rather hear most drummers play with a band anyway. It's not like I have trouble hearing drums, and there are very few drummers I can think of that I'd be willing to watch play unaccompanied for hours. And if somebody's just going to play to a backing track I'd rather have the band there anyway.

I can totally understand why Vinnie wouldn't enjoy the environment. He's either going to have to dumb down what he has to say to a stupendous degree (the number of people on the planet who can even figure out what the hell Vinnie is talking about when he gets going on a topic he finds interesting has to be pretty small), talk to 1% of the room about stuff that the other 99% are going to totally miss the point of or play things that he'd rather be playing in a musical situation. Why do it?

Yeah, and probably most of the clinics today are 2), and in a sense it's a kind of publicity tour. But Vinnie doesn't need to do it and doesn't want to do it.
I guess Vinnie will be happy to do "master classes" for serious, advanced students only. Actually he told me he wanted to do it. Or just play music with a band like he did at 2000 Modern Drummer Festival...it's going to be ok.

[syoshii]

Originally Posted by mlehnertz

And the Zildjian Day in Boston this exact situation came up. He was describing something about polyrhythms and odd time and the audience was totally clueless.

Just the same situation happened in Tokyo, too in the late '80s (I wasn't there but I heard about it later). Vinnie demonstrated his "superimposed metric modulation" using a sequencer, very odd and sick stuff, but the audience couldn't understand at all what he was doing.

Originally Posted by finnhiggins

you have to tolerate horrible, horrible Q&A sessions where audience members ask questions that make you want to cry tears of rage at their sheer pointlessness.

My favourite example, asked by a middle-aged, hairy hippy chick at LAMA during a Marco Minnemann clinic:

"Do you ever have any trouble mounting things?"

I'd be interested to see how many "serious, advanced students" would actually understand him. At least understand him to the point of being able to apply what he was telling them to the set.

Originally Posted by syoshii

I guess Vinnie will be happy to do "master classes" for serious, advanced students only. Actually he told me he wanted to do it.

[Ian Ballard]

Originally Posted by Dr Drums

u know what..? I know he's one of the greatest drummers today , but i just can't like him. I guess he's not my style. weird.

Funny thing, though... you've probably heard hundreds of soundtracks and pop songs that feature his drumming and you don't even realize it.

That's the genius of Vinnie. Not his crazy polyrhythmic chops, but his ability to play ANYTHING in any situation for any artist.

And in one take. Now that's genius.

Originally Posted by Ian Ballard

Funny thing, though... you've probably heard hundreds of soundtracks and pop songs that feature his drumming and you don't even realize it.

That's the genius of Vinnie. Not his crazy polyrhythmic chops, but his ability to play ANYTHING in any situation for any artist.

[Spence]

I tried desperately to get tickets to see Herbie Hancock with Vinnie on drums in London. I failed and the show has passed. Did anyone go to this or the previous shows? I know someone mentioned that they were going but they haven't said anything since.

I must know what it was like!

I am GUTTED that I didn't go. GUTTED!