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  #161  
Old 01-31-2006, 09:38 AM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Underhill
Big kits...small kits, whatever. I'll play on a 4 piece any day of the week,
Yeah, I'd rather play on a Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute 4 piece than a Pearl Export 9 piece anyday!
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  #162  
Old 01-31-2006, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

I think we all pretty much agree that size doesn't matter (though I enjoyed Womble's post greatly!), but what I will say is that the look of the kit is equally as important as sound. I know this sounds incredibly daft and superficial but it's true! Popular music is as much as about image and style as it is about the music. So for instance my 4 piece vintage kit, with just hats, ride and crash would look pretty lame in a thrash metal set up. Similarly Lars Ulrich's double-bass drum set-up will look ridiculous in my ramshackle lo-fi indie band. I guess all I'm doing is adding to the obvious point which has been mentioned already, that different drum set-ups suit different genres of music. My only twist is that this is as much about the look of the set-up (i.e. aesthetics) as it is about the sound you get from your drums.
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  #163  
Old 01-31-2006, 11:48 AM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Speaking of look, can you imagine my surprsie when I put my 7 pc DW on a pearl curved rack and everyone commented on my "new" "huge" and "pretentious" kit. It's the same kit I've had for 8 years!! Who knew that drum hardware could even BE pretentious?

I started out on a big kit and it was a mistake. Too many toms, cymbals, woodblocks, roto-toms etc. (Too much Neil Peart actually) How many hours did I waste with that crap instead of learning how to keep time?

I believe that begnners should get a 4 or 5 pc and get that going for a few years. Too many choices can overwhelm a less advanced player.

After that it's a totally individual choice. Here in NYC most of the local club gigs have a house kit that's never bigger than a 4 pc and I play our set on those as readily as I do on my own kit. I mean most of the time we're on bass snare and hh/ride anyway no?

Gear does not make the drummer.

But it IS fun!
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  #164  
Old 01-31-2006, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Dom Famularo is now quoting our Moderator? My friends, I believe we have arrived.
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  #165  
Old 02-02-2006, 12:25 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

aesthetically, i think small kits are better. I believe lots of tomtoms looks atrocious....

lots of cymbals is a different story...

two attched pics display large setups i hate the look of
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  #166  
Old 02-02-2006, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

I like my big kit because it not very interesting to play straight fills on the toms, I like to use this small effect cymbals too. I play metal and often there're melodies over 3 or 4 bars, it's nice to have also 3 or 4 crashes to make higher and lower accent more accurate with the proper crash or whatever kind of percussion.
Interesting, but I like more metal drummers with a huge set instead of 3 cymbals and 4 piece shell set because it fits better for me in this genre. Don't know how it's in other genres, but I think it's the same in rock.
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  #167  
Old 02-02-2006, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

It's all abut how you want you kit to look. I love big kits, they look great. But I also love watching someone flip out on a 4 piece with 2 cymbals and make it sound good.

Someone earlier in this post said that a single bass and some hand work can duplicate any double bass work. I very sharply disagree with that statement. I have seen some pretty good drummers do that exact thing and pull if off fairly well, but one of hier hands is tied up. Someone that knows how to use a double bass set can to many more things.
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  #168  
Old 02-02-2006, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

I agree it's primarily about looks. I personally like the bigger kits to a point. I mean my dream kit is either Nicko's gray Sonor from the Somewhere in Time tour or Neil's current DW set up, Much bigger then that really seems silly to me. Now i absolutely love watching Bonham on his Vistalites and aawww with respect with what he could accomplish on a kit of that size as well. So to each there own i guess, It's the drummer that provides the magic not the kit !!!!!!
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  #169  
Old 02-03-2006, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Well, a big kit looks indeed nicer, but it just touches me if the drummer REALLY uses all of them, else it's just showing off.

I've always pissed about Alex Van Halen for example, putting so many toms and barely making a tom roll. The same goes to Eric Carr and most hard rock drummers around (most of them have now gotten a grip /or they're poorer now and are using smaller kits).

The only... ONLY exception is Vinny Appice because having a bass drum over your head looks cool anyway :)

Edu
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  #170  
Old 02-03-2006, 03:14 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Quote:
Originally Posted by candlemass
The same goes to Eric Carr and most hard rock drummers around (most of them have now gotten a grip /or they're poorer now and are using smaller kits).
Eric Carr used the entire set and could do a really good double bass roll. Peter on the other hand was mostly show and less proficient with the larger kit. Don't bash Carr.
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  #171  
Old 02-03-2006, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Quote:
Originally Posted by candlemass
Well, a big kit looks indeed nicer, but it just touches me if the drummer REALLY uses all of them, else it's just showing off.

I've always pissed about Alex Van Halen for example, putting so many toms and barely making a tom roll. The same goes to Eric Carr and most hard rock drummers around (most of them have now gotten a grip /or they're poorer now and are using smaller kits).

The only... ONLY exception is Vinny Appice because having a bass drum over your head looks cool anyway :)

Edu
No way. Eric Carr was an amazing drummer. I saw him twice and both times he blew me away with his solos. No he didn't just go all over his toms all the time, there is a lot to be said for tastfull drumming. But Eric Carr was really a talented drummer. I can't understand where your comming from with AVH, he is a smoking drummer to. Seen him many times.

My wife says the same thing, "Why do you need so many drums?, you can't play them all at once". My reply is simple, "Yes but I do need them once in a while".

BTW, don't think for a moment that the Van Halens are poor!
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  #172  
Old 02-03-2006, 05:28 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpekarek
No way. Eric Carr was an amazing drummer. I saw him twice and both times he blew me away with his solos. No he didn't just go all over his toms all the time, there is a lot to be said for tastfull drumming. But Eric Carr was really a talented drummer. I can't understand where your comming from with AVH, he is a smoking drummer to. Seen him many times.
I don't agree. The toms aren't even tuned in a way that you can HEAR any difference, they could be done in a 4-piece drums and i wouldn't notice. I haven't seen him live (as I wasn't old enough ;p), but the videos I saw him playing, he was a decent player and it's all, from what I saw with Kiss. The solo wasn't big deal either, it was just those exercises with double bass that the audience will dig anyway. Van Halen is even worse, he plays nothing but a 4/4 rhythm, and throw in a roll once in a while, to me that's just waste of equipment. I'm much more into Neil Peart, Keith Moon and others which REALLY use their kits to the maximum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpkarek
BTW, don't think for a moment that the Van Halens are poor!
Well, not the case indeed for VH but other hard rock groups such as Warrant and Poison stick with their 4-piece drums and that's all nowadays.
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  #173  
Old 02-03-2006, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Quote:
Originally Posted by candlemass
I don't agree. The toms aren't even tuned in a way that you can HEAR any difference, they could be done in a 4-piece drums and i wouldn't notice. I haven't seen him live (as I wasn't old enough ;p), but the videos I saw him playing, he was a decent player and it's all, from what I saw with Kiss. The solo wasn't big deal either, it was just those exercises with double bass that the audience will dig anyway. Van Halen is even worse, he plays nothing but a 4/4 rhythm, and throw in a roll once in a while, to me that's just waste of equipment. I'm much more into Neil Peart, Keith Moon and others which REALLY use their kits to the maximum.



Well, not the case indeed for VH but other hard rock groups such as Warrant and Poison stick with their 4-piece drums and that's all nowadays.
Your right about some of the other groups, blew all thier money trying to live like rock stars after it dried up! The MC Hammer syndrome.

I don't think you can really compare Eric Carr and AVH to drummers like Peart, they are completely different in thier styles and sounds, apples and oranges. Rush's music is about progressiveness and technical skills. Van Halen and Kiss were party rock and that's what they did very well. Different styles but each very talented in thier own style.
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  #174  
Old 02-03-2006, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

I love what i'd call medium kits, like 5/6 toms, i enjoy playing them, i personally only use 2 as i find i can get some really jazzy fills out of them, but i think some kits are really excessive, take mike portnoy's for example...

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  #175  
Old 02-03-2006, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

I am a firm believer that the size of your kit is determined by your playing. If you're playing on a 5 piece and you keep getting to the end of your rolls and you still feel that there is something else to be said, then you might want more toms. If you can say everything that you need to say on a 4 piece, GREAT! Just be careful not to let the size of a kit impress you. I've seen drummers that have blown me away with just Bass, Snare, and Hats. Check out Max Roach's video clip on this site. He is sick with just hats.
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  #176  
Old 02-03-2006, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

I use 15,16,18 " crashes, 10" crash, 20" ride and 17" China, (13 " hats). That is as big as my kit will ever be cymbal wise. drums i use 10,12,15, 13 snare, 20 bass, i have considered adding an 8" tom, i fell in love with my friends one, dw have nice small tom sounds :O. Anyway basically i think that provided you use everything on your kit, and its not wasted AND it adds the the quality of your playing, then its fine to have a large setup. I also have percussion on my drum kit, being in a funk/jazz band, so i get critisised for using a too big drumkit, but the fact of the matter is - i use everything more than 10 times in my set that we are playing at the moment and it adds to mine and the bands overall sound - so sure, big kits are good if your willing to put the effort in and use them.

I think what sucks is getting a cheap kit and adding drums to it, complete waste of money... i would take a £1000 5 piece kit any day over a £1000 20 piece beginner kit...
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  #177  
Old 02-06-2006, 05:10 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpekarek
Rush's music is about progressiveness and technical skills. Van Halen and Kiss were party rock and that's what they did very well. Different styles but each very talented in thier own style.
Aha!! So if it takes technical skills to play a giant kit, why use gint kits in party rock?? Get my question now?

Edu
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  #178  
Old 02-06-2006, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Quote:
Originally Posted by candlemass
Aha!! So if it takes technical skills to play a giant kit, why use gint kits in party rock?? Get my question now?

Edu
I'm not really sure what you question was. There is really no debate at all here. There are a lot of drummers who have both a big kit and skills. Some people like big sets, others don't. Some people have the skills to play a huge set, others don't. Myself? I like a big set because it's looks cool and it's fun. That doesn't mean that I am any less of a drummer. But I don't use it to impress other people, it's just for me. I don't even take it anywhere when I play, I have another smaller 5 piece TAMA set I use for gigs. My big set is very special and I don't like to move it.

Big drum kits look killer on stage and that's what a lot of bands like, a monster center piece for the stage. Some bands are not about that and that's fine. But it doesn't mean that just because you like big sets that you're not a very good drummer.
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  #179  
Old 02-09-2006, 02:41 AM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

I think I am a rare breed where as a teenage drummer, I have a 7 piece Yamaha Recording Custom stacked up in a corner in favor of a 4 piece Sonor... It's not that I don't play the RC, or that I don't enjoy its sound - it's that as a young, practicing drummer, I need to be able to adapt my playing to every style I can, and focus on every detail that that I can hear, and this is easier with 2 toms rather than 5. Granted, the bigger kit will win out when I go anywhere to play publicly, but after practicing everything on 4 drums, it's an easy switch to 7.

The reason I don't practice on my big kit is because someday I will find myself in an important position where I will have a minimal kit in which to perform on, and I don't want to have to stretch ideas that were developed in the context of 5 toms, and compress it down to 2.

Bottom line, it's easier to adapt from a small kit to a large one, should you ever find yourself in such a situation where it is required.
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  #180  
Old 02-09-2006, 02:56 AM
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Default Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by finnhiggins

I recently wrote a drum part for a performance on a 4pc with two cymbals - a ride and a china. As such, I came up with a whole bunch of ways of playing those drums and cymbals in that part - one section includes the ride played with the tip, the shoulder of the stick and crashed on the edge just as part of the shape of a single two-bar looped groove.


The one-cymbal approach has a consistent atmosphere, and changes in dynamic feel smoother and more organic as the wash of the cymbal floats up and down with the grove - it feels more "round" and IMHO a bit more expressive. I reckon that what people tend to perceive as expression in music is more about nuance and variation than it is about big changes - so music like Naked City or Mr Bungle which flits between styles tends to feel maybe more exciting and seat-of-your-pants cool, but less expressive than a piece which retains a constant feel and mood and develops emotional peaks inside that.

The multi-cymbal approach feels a bit more soulless, but has more energy and feels like it has more "space" - it's easier to understand the part, it's more obvious to the listener, and it's easier to hear it over a band. So it makes a lot more sense if your band is loud and you need to project, while it might sound dumb and excessive in a more nuanced context.

i do have to agree with you that with fewer cymbal choices you have more chance for expresiveness and theme. But ever thought of the drummers that have their whole cymbal setup based on a theme??? I mean jeez, i have four crashes, but all of them are the same model in different sizes just for pitches! Its also the same for toms, you can play the same figure (theme) on different ranges of toms and all of sudden its really cool. Sure there are setups that don't promote coheesiveness (cough portnoy), but other big sets work so well in creating an atmostsphere and expression. Besides my own I would look at Dave Weckl's, and all of DeJonette's cymbals as examples. The point is to make the entire set sound like one instrument. No matter the size.
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  #181  
Old 02-09-2006, 05:08 AM
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Default Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aahznightsky
The point is to make the entire set sound like one instrument. No matter the size.
Mr. Ahh.....I am impressed with your insight. You have a unique vision about our insturment of choice.
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  #182  
Old 02-20-2006, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

the most i ever need when we play is a four peicewith a couple crashes, a ride, and hi-hats....but it sure is fun to play on my big kit at home by myself. i can be more creative. thats why i have two kits. i don't NEED much to play with my band, but it sure is nice to have te option of hitting something different.
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  #183  
Old 02-20-2006, 08:24 AM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

1 rack and 2 floors (5 piece). Makes me happy.
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  #184  
Old 03-16-2006, 05:17 AM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

It dosn't really matter. A lot of good drummers play giant sets and a lot of good drummers play 4 piece sets. I personaly think that a 9 piece set would be awesome. 2 bass drums, 4 rack toms, 2 floor toms, and a snare.
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  #185  
Old 03-16-2006, 05:49 AM
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Default Re: Big kit or small kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teenage Drumma
So I've been drumming for about 5 years now and my kit's 3 toms, snare, single bass, hi hat and 3 cymbals. I always get into arguments with my friends for criticizing other drummers for having such big kits. Sure it's kind of justifiable if the drummer uses it all, but I think the core of drumming is being able to pick out what sounds good with the music, not technique. Personally I don't think it's ever necessary for a drummer to use more than a double bass, 3 or 4 toms, snare, hi hat, and 3 or 4 cymbals, what do you think?
no offence but i TOTALY DISSAGREE

i love big drumsets, its just kinda my thing,

so far i dont have that big of a drumset, but what i do have its

4 toms, snair, double base, 5 cymbals including hi hat, and thats what i have so far


MUAHAH but dont worry there is ALOT more to come

if u want more specifications on it....gimme a bit my digital camera is broken, but once i fix it ill take a pic of it, with the sizes and typs

later
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  #186  
Old 03-26-2006, 04:00 PM
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Default Small Set v.s. Big Set

Last night I returned home amazed by two things, that I had just seen an incredible drummer, and the fact that he did it all on a floor tom, snare, and bass drum (plus cymbals). Now that I think about, most (if not all) the drummers that play seem to play the most intresting and rhythmic fills, solos, and beats, play four or maybe 5 piece sets. I was wondering what any of your thoughts are on this subject, do you notice it too? Do you know of any "big set" players who are also creative? If anyone says Mike Portnoy, I just...I just cannot be held responsible for what I might say.
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  #187  
Old 03-26-2006, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: Small Set v.s. Big Set

While Mike is one of my favorite drummers, he has NO creativity at all when doing solos. He's still a badass drummer!
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  #188  
Old 03-26-2006, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Small Set v.s. Big Set

Nicko McBrain, Scott Rockenfield, Simon Phillips, NeilPeart Alan White just to name a few. I used to be a big kit guy but the music Im playing now, a big double bass 9pc would look silly on stage.
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  #189  
Old 03-26-2006, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Small Set v.s. Big Set

I don't personnaly see a connection between one's creativity and the size of the set.

While a larger set obviously means more voices, the rythmic permutations you can create on a 4-piece set are infinite anyways.

Creative drummers with large sets ? Stewart Copeland (whose set grew fairly large at periods), Terry Bozzio (that's large), Dave Weckl, Thomas Lang, Phil Collins...

Creatve drummers with small sets ? Buddy Rich (possibly the biggest small set advocate), Manu Katche, Rodney Holmes, David Garibaldi, Bernard Purdie, ..
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  #190  
Old 03-26-2006, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Some drummers with smaller kits are like those obnoxious non-smokers who like to criticise smokers just to feel more smug about themselves. I play an extremely Travis Barker-esque kit - (4 piece, all cymbals and drums ruler flat and very low - except the snare, which is tilted away from me) - but I what right do I have to criticise others with bigger kits? Of course you still have to be creative when playing it - you can still get more textures/tones out of each drum if you want; you've just got more drums/cymbals to get those textures/tones out of...

(just for the record, I don't smoke...damn do I feel smug right now...)
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  #191  
Old 04-03-2006, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

i played either on big and on small kit im not sure what is small kit(number of elements or a size) bigger kit looks nicer but small i easier to play and kinda nicer to play.the feeling is better with the smaller kit,when every element is close to you,you feel like a swalow when drumming.Anyway i cannot feast my eyes with watching Nicko Mcbrain!!!!Hes an animal so beautiful can anyone imagine him with kinda small kit wouldnt he look ridiculus?
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  #192  
Old 04-06-2006, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coatz
I love what i'd call medium kits, like 5/6 toms, i enjoy playing them, i personally only use 2 as i find i can get some really jazzy fills out of them, but i think some kits are really excessive, take mike portnoy's for example...

I guess the guy is just taking advantage of being sponsored, any of us will just add accessories to our drums if they were also for free héhé
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  #193  
Old 04-06-2006, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

I cant stand Portnoy's set, it makes no sense at all to have a set in which you cant play the whole thing without haveing to get up. but as for the big kit small kit thing, 4 pieces are the set for me. I like having to be creative and not having ever sound color in the world right there infront of me.



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  #194  
Old 04-08-2006, 07:28 AM
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Default Re: Small Set v.s. Big Set

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandoihatewinter_26
Do you know of any "big set" players who are also creative? If anyone says Mike Portnoy, I just...I just cannot be held responsible for what I might say.
The first two that come to mind are Carl Palmer and Simon Phillips. Both are amazing on their large kits. I like Mike Portnoy but his kit is just ridiculous.

J P Lapp

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...9169#post39169

Last edited by JPDrum; 04-08-2006 at 07:53 AM.
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  #195  
Old 04-08-2006, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Personally I love big kits providing the drummer can play them and be creative with them. Today the hip thing is to have a really small kit and it seems like everyones kit is a four piece DW. It is getting kind of boring out here in drummer land.

J P Lapp

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...9169#post39169
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Old 04-08-2006, 07:53 AM
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Default Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

One last thing about drummers using big kits. My wife and attended a set of Toto concerts last year. While sitting in the lobby bar we were discussing the concerts after the second show. Her comment about Simon Phillips and his drum solos blew me away. She said, "On both nights the solos were totally different and they were musical! He would play something that had a melody to it, then go from there."

This is from a non musician. I couldn't have said it any better.

Cheers

J P Lapp

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...9169#post39169
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Old 04-13-2006, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: Big kit = small penis? Big kit = big ____

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogBreath
My layout is very comfortable for me and the drums are logically placed. It's basically a four piece set surrounded by more pieces.
That's exactly how my kit is laid out. If you look at a pid, you can see all the elements of a 4 piece kit in the same area, but there are many more elements surrounding them, thus expanding my range of possibilities:
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Last edited by somedrummer; 04-13-2006 at 06:12 AM.
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Old 04-13-2006, 07:37 AM
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Default Re: Big kit = small Big kit = big ____

if you keep ur kit under 15 peices no one is gonna think ur packin a small tool. the reason some kits get big, 2 bass drums so the sound is loud and pure for double bass stuff, a snare, 2-3 toms for fills and such, and 2 floor toms for fills also. then, if u wanna get anouther snare for either higher or lower tuning, and then some people do latin stuff so they need some timbales (2)
that allread is an 11 peice... you see?
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Old 04-13-2006, 09:09 AM
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Default Re: Big kit = small Big kit = big ____

Big kit/small kit, we are still just hitting stuff because it makes noise.....and we like to hit stuff.... :P :)
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Old 04-13-2006, 04:41 PM
IronCobraPTW IronCobraPTW is offline
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Default Re: Big kit = small Big kit = big ____

yo finnhiggens and fusssion..
i agree with dogbreath 100% on this
its plain and obvious too
if you have a 4 piece set you can get 4 sounds thats simple and i know your gonna say what about technique...well is it not possible to use the same technique on a larger kit?
so if you have a 10 piece kit...you will get a minimum of 10 sounds hands down and if you do play your "small kit technique" on a large kit you will beat your small kit in sounds and musicality everytime
its almost like saying a quarter will get you more than a dollar.
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