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  #81  
Old 08-04-2005, 02:47 AM
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Default Re: Big kit = small penis? Big kit = big ____

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milo
I personally own large kits because of the possiblities they bring. I like em big and loud most of the time too. But I can always break them down into a 5 piece, or two 5 pieces for that matter. Most gigs I just take 5 or 6 pieces and less cymbals because it's too much stuff. But at home I have everything set up.
I agree. I really own a large kit because its discontinued and I wanted (and still want) to pick up as many pieces of it as I can. However, I no longer leave the house with more than a 4 piece kit. I also feel that a bigger kit does not always mean more musicality, but it does mean more options. I personally feel that I play more musically on a smaller kit than some big monster. A small kit makes you use what you've got more creatively, rather than just hit everything you have without as much musicality.
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  #82  
Old 08-04-2005, 03:09 AM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

I would agree, i wouldn't want 30 toms, 50 cymbals etc, but some people actually use all of it, like Neil Peart, one of my favortite drummers, he uses everything and is amazing with it, but another thing that is important is, that he is also just as amazing on a five piece kit too.
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  #83  
Old 08-04-2005, 03:32 AM
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Default Re: Big kit = small Big kit = big ____

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogBreath

A wise man once said, "Argue your limitations, and sure enough they are yours."

I love DG's taste in books! Plus, he's been totally right throughout this entire discussion ...
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  #84  
Old 08-04-2005, 03:32 AM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

when i 1st started playing drums i got into double bass drums had fair size drum set 7 or 8
piece kit loaded with cymbals and had lots of fun with it, i also at that time , had very little or no knowledge of drumming basically just what i could imulate.Certainly no idea of any
form of stick control.lolol At some point i started to take private instructions from a pro.
For me as soon as i was wrapped up in the learning of it all i realized that, the things iwas learning, like rudimentals studies, to swing , tons of latin grooves,foot patterns on and on and on all were based on the small kits( 4 piece few cymbals,, so too me knowledge is king and it never stops.

recently, i combined my to sets of SONORS, back to the double bass drums what a blast
10 piece drumset, with 2HH and 8 cymbals ,but now i can take concepts that i learnt on the 4 piece and apply them to the big kit, plus the double BD applications that i learned earlier.The drum set is a wonderous thing and yu will never stop learning ther is no end(thank god)

so for me, the small kit removes alot of the confusion when trying to learn , its a distraction
having to many things..plus in the beginning yur working on yur grip ,yur posture,reading
rudiments,foot technique, volume, stickings,counting,lefthand exs, and im not saying a guy is no good cause he doesnt study but it sure opens doors.also some times it feels to me like its all one surface,and more about the structure yu create with yur limbs through time and note values, and groove.. any ways sorry about the hairy rant , its my 1st post thanks for having me Bernhard this site rocks cat.. you da man
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  #85  
Old 08-04-2005, 03:35 AM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anduin
I bet there's a very similar but inverted argument on the Rick Wakeman forum.

*chuckle* for sure! And the capes to boot!
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  #86  
Old 08-04-2005, 04:38 AM
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Default Re: Big kit = small Big kit = big ____

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogBreath
Nice logic. My equally logical response would be that a guy with two drinking straws and a cork beer coaster would be somewhat limited in his range of sounds. But I guess that if I had to resort to such a pointless comparison then I would be admitting the loss of the argument.

=-)
Taking one last stab at getting you to understand...

Not really, it's not pointless. If we put those two extremes on the table, we're agreed there's such a thing as "Too limited in ability to make sound to be musically useful" and also such a thing as "Too much stuff to be anything other than silly" right? So how do you draw the line between the two? My answer is that the line is drawn by the ability of the player to play that kit to its full musical extent. You might even find some freak of a percussionist who could put that 256-piece kit into a sub-chromatic tuning and play bizarre Asian music using quarter-tones or smaller. But they'd certainly be a freak and that kit would be less than useful for most people.

The whole reason I got involved in debating this one was that the assertion was being made that big kits were somehow inherantly more "musical". Implying that having a big kit automatically improves the music a given drummer plays on it. I doubt that - they give you plenty to think about other than music. Show me a big kit player who thinks about tone, phrasing and subtlety and I'll show you fifty thinking about how to play decending single-stroke rolls on toms cleanly.

Small kits give you virtually nothing to think about OTHER than music. My contention is that thought is what creates musicality, not gear. You can have all the gear in the world without dedicating any thought to musicality, and you can have all the musicality in the world with only one or two drums. That's not to say that big kits = bad musician or that small kit = good musician. If you're focused enough to use it brilliantly then all power to you, but my experience from playing drums and watching drummers is that the majority of big kit drummers I've seen have at least part of their focus on getting around their kit smoothly, rather than the music they're playing.

Having given a small kit a try I don't think I really want to go back to a big one, because my feeling is that a small kit promotes better control of drum music in the same way that learning acoustic guitar promotes better control of guitar music. That's not to say that electric guitars and big kits have no advantages, just that much of the time those advantages are never used. As my years of playing drums increase my estimation of my ability decreases, even as my ability itself goes up from an objective point of view - the more I learn, the more I realise there is left to learn. So my feeling is that playing a small kit gives me more ability to focus on that stuff, rather than just chasing the mechanical aspects you see Thomas Lang talking about on his DVD with all of those drum -> cymbal triplet sticking combinations. If I play a smaller kit, that stuff quite simply takes up less of my practice time and leaves me more time to get on with other things that do more for my musicality, like controlling my tone, my timing, my groove and my understanding of rhythm. There's only so many hours in a day.

As it is, I'br probably speny far too many of them arguing this point, so I'll concede now and say OK - you win. I've never claimed you should switch to a smaller kit, just that I don't think it's correct to say that a bigger kit is inherantly better for the musicality of the person sitting behind it. My experience and that of other people here suggests otherwise, so using a phrase like "more musicality" is probably going a bit out on a limb.
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  #87  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:08 AM
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Default Re: Big kit = small Big kit = big ____

Hang on, let me spit out all of these words that you put in my mouth.

* . . . . . . . . . . . . . *

OK, all better. All of your points add up to the same thing, and that is generally that you prefer smaller kits, and specifically you don't play bigger kits very well, mostly due to confusion or distraction. I concede to you both of those points. Meanwhile I have a kit that allows me to play everything that you can, and a whole bunch of stuff that you can't. Cool. My experience, and that of many people here and elsewhere, is that your options are more limited than mine.

And as to the whole "musicality" issue, a bigger drumset is inherently more musical, unless of course all of your drums are identical in size and tuning.
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  #88  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:15 AM
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Default Re: Big kit = small Big kit = big ____

good god this post...

i think you guys will never come to a conclusion because i think even though it may seem you guys are arguing about the same topic, you're not.

finn is arguing for the musicality of the player while dog is stating the obvious opening of sound options you get with a larger kit.

TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT TOPICS. just agree that they are and it's over.

in any case, play whatever you are comfortable with. big, small, doesn't matter. it's up to you.
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  #89  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:42 AM
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Default Re: Big kit = small Big kit = big ____

Quote:
Originally Posted by illy
good god this post...

i think you guys will never come to a conclusion because i think even though it may seem you guys are arguing about the same topic, you're not.

finn is arguing for the musicality of the player while dog is stating the obvious opening of sound options you get with a larger kit.

TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT TOPICS. just agree that they are and it's over.

in any case, play whatever you are comfortable with. big, small, doesn't matter. it's up to you.
I do understand that Dog is just going for the obvious "more drums = more possible sounds" argument, but that's only one half of the equation. A drum kit sitting on a stage, alone, has no sound whatsoever other than some sympathetic resonance. The possibility is there, but it's not being used. Dog would argue that without a big drumkit the potential of the player is not being fully used... but I think that it just goes into finding new, creative ways to express yourself instead of re-arranging familiar patterns onto different gear.

So the way I see it is that musicality is entirely from the player, it's entirely possible - and IMHO more common than not - for a drummer to play unmusically on a huge kit. My suggestion is that a small kit presents more opportunity to the player to focus and understand what they're doing, on more levels.

Ironically, this is a similar argument to the one Stu is trying to deploy against me over in the PC vs Mac thread - so if you want to argue with "Simplicity makes you more productive" then you can at least argue it with Stu so I can go grab a coffee :)
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  #90  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:54 AM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

My kit is so big they have to make the stage bigger so it will fit. I'm just kidding. Seriously I do play an 11 piece kit and I do use all of it. I have set that thing up and tore it down so many times that I have gotten pretty quick at it. Yes I would say my kit is practical for me.
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  #91  
Old 08-04-2005, 06:00 AM
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Default Re: Big kit = small Big kit = big ____

I just like how you keep saying you're done. Well, I also like how you say my point is "obvious." I thought so, too.
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  #92  
Old 08-04-2005, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

4 piece, 1 ride, 2 crash, 1 splash.

that's it!
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  #93  
Old 08-04-2005, 06:18 AM
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Default Re: Big kit = small Big kit = big ____

Quote:
My suggestion is that a small kit presents more opportunity to the player to focus and understand what they're doing, on more levels.
Why didn't you just say that in the first place?
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  #94  
Old 08-04-2005, 06:29 AM
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Default Re: Big kit = small Big kit = big ____

some drummers like bozzio really utilize and do need that big kit to make the sound they want out of their composition.
why most others like portnoy guys dont. they just randomly flash on toms without even remember what they are doing each time.
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  #95  
Old 08-04-2005, 06:36 AM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by illy
4 piece, 1 ride, 2 crash, 1 splash.

that's it!
lol, no hihats? (more characters)
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  #96  
Old 08-04-2005, 06:42 AM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

lol. no, i use two tupperware lids instead. yes, my bad. hi-hats too.
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  #97  
Old 08-04-2005, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

i have a 7 piece, and i often use all 7 pieces, no cymbal or drum goes unused for a long period of time.
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  #98  
Old 08-04-2005, 09:54 AM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

Although I play with either a 5pc or 7 pc kit......I dont really see anything wrong with a big kit even if the drummer doesnt always use it......you can improvise or rather be forced to improvise more on a smaller kit, but there are benefits to a larger kit, like more drums and cymbals more different sounds to play with....and you might not need to use them in every setting but I suppose it cant hurt if you like having all that around.......dont really see it a problem if its someone else's kit......it dont affect me none.....

Just like we all have our own preference of kits we choose or can afford or cymbals or sticks.......drummers use different amounts of drums and cymbals......
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  #99  
Old 08-04-2005, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

the more gigs you do the smaller your kit gets. until you get a roady ... then it depends on personal taste.

i love my five piece and 7 cymbals. but one day i want a monster kit like dogbreath's just to keep at home and like he says give the whole thing a work out. as for bozzio's kit i'm sure we would all love to mess around on it...perhaps with him not there tho.

j
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  #100  
Old 08-04-2005, 11:37 AM
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Default Re: Big kit = small Big kit = big ____

I personally prefer nice 6 piece or 7 piece drum kits nice and medium sized not too big and not too small.But its a matter of taste really.
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  #101  
Old 08-04-2005, 07:41 PM
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Default Re: Big kit = ? Big kit = big ____

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogBreath
Big kit = big possibilities. More options, more musicality. You can play small on a big kit, but you can't play big on a small kit.


Cheers.
I know I'm late joining this........but...........

I think it depends on the genre of music being played............Jeff Hamilton is a great example that defies your statement above Dog Breath.....not being a jerk or anything...but that guy plays BIG on a 18-12-14-5x14snare and 3 cymbals.......uses every trick in the book ........plays the rims....hardware...you name it.......

I think the music being played is the key factor.........

Last edited by NUTHA JASON; 09-12-2006 at 06:27 PM.
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  #102  
Old 08-04-2005, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Big kit = small Big kit = big ____

I think the points being made are with more toms you have more pitches. That's indisputable. But others are saying you don't need more pitches to have a good drum sound.
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  #103  
Old 08-05-2005, 06:22 AM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

i actually use all the stuff on my set. i actually took back a double bass pedal because i wasn't using the left side at all. thats why when i add on to my set with cymbals i always think. "will i use this?"
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  #104  
Old 08-05-2005, 06:43 AM
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Default Re: Big kit = small Big kit = big ____

fusssion, I reworded that after the post you quoted because the way I originally said it it was too easy to misinterpret my meaning. Of course you can play "big" on a small kit. But you can play the same on a bigger kit, and then some.

Stu has the right idea of the two main points being supported, but unfortunately some people were taking it to extremes while defending small kits. It makes perfect sense to say "I prefer small kits" or "big kits frighten and confuse me" or even "in my opinion, small kits are more appropriate for certain types of music," but to say "small kits make you a better drummer" is just silly.
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  #105  
Old 08-05-2005, 05:18 PM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

I use a 5 piece with 3 crashes ,a ride, hi hats , a china and a splash and i use every inch of it.
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  #106  
Old 08-05-2005, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

[quote=DogBreath]I really don't get the "Big Sets Suck" logic. A drumset is a musical instrument! Can you imagine a piano player saying, "I realised that there were keys that I only used on 5 out of the 35 songs that I usually play, so I took a chisel and hammer and removed those keys"?

AS usual you don't get what I am saying, why am I not surprised??? I never said big sets suck, I said is you set practical? I know people add things to there sets because they look cool or for the sake of having a big kit which is there preference. My point was just to stimulate a conversation and ask if all the stuff people have that I seen on here practical. In your case it seems to be and I couldn't be happier for you.
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  #107  
Old 08-05-2005, 06:01 PM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

Once again it all boils down to the music you play....and what gig you're doing !

Essentially......it would be perfect to have 2 ...or.....one large kit that can be easily broken down into different kits.......

the smallest would probably be ...say....10-12-14-16-22 , a snare or 2 .....then you could do jazz.....fusion, ......and rock with different set ups.........cymbals would work the same way ......have different sizes and styles for different gigs.....

it's all personal preference..............currently........I'm doing a rock gig.....5 piece kit, 5 cymbals.....very practical...FOR WHAT I'M DOING!

So ...it's not all so cut and dry when it comes to answering this post.....
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  #108  
Old 08-05-2005, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamsjr44
AS usual you don't get what I am saying, why am I not surprised??? I never said big sets suck.
Then why do you assume that I'm quoting you? I meant people who have that mentality.

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  #109  
Old 08-05-2005, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

Good drummers can deal what what ever they have mostly. Yea.. some have huge kits. maybe its a confidence thing.

This mp3 is from Dave Dicenso playing on a 2 piece kit (snare kick)
http://www.davedicenso.com/mp3/462001Drumsolo.mp3

Dont forget to check out his site too
http://www.davedicenso.com

Steve Hass has also rocked the 2 piece before. Wohooo

These guys are good.
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  #110  
Old 08-05-2005, 11:23 PM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superlow
The biggest factor of me not playing a BIG is due to space contraints and the fact that I have been playing gigs quite regularly since I started playing the drums. I don't like lugging around a lot of equipment it's not fun. I play a four piece with a high-hat and two rides. I have grown very comfortable with this setup. However if I had a roadie or drum technician I would gladly add another rack tom and floor tom, not to mention some more rides.
Interesting. Sorry, I'm ignorant, but why would you want more than two rides, along with apparently no crashes? Is that the type of band you have?
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  #111  
Old 08-06-2005, 02:40 AM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

4 pce for me - with hats a crash and ride. small is good for my style - thinking about losing another drum as well....i love seeing drummers doing interesting things on tiny kits

Recently i saw the Von Bondies play - the drummer used no hi-hat, it was great - really good - he had a good groove...



big kits are fun too - but not for me (Id be lost)
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  #112  
Old 08-06-2005, 02:57 AM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticksman
Interesting. Sorry, I'm ignorant, but why would you want more than two rides, along with apparently no crashes? Is that the type of band you have?
I wouldn't mind 50 rides for jazz....so many different colours.....but crashes can definitely do the same....it's just that rides tend to give a longer/darker sound
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  #113  
Old 08-06-2005, 10:58 AM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

My poor drumkit is a slowly evolving beast. My 1st drumkit, started as std 5 pce kit, hi hat, ride and crash. i now have an A custom 17" crash, 18" china, 10" splash, cowbell and a keg hehe which i use an old single pedal on. It suits me fine, now i just need to save enough dollars to buy a new kit hehehe but im happy with the setup. Actually something noone has commented on so far is the actual practicality of playing thier kit. I read an interview with Mike Mangini in the Australian Drumscene mag, where he describes his ambidexterous kit. He puts the hihat in the center and has a mirror image on each side. I think my kit is very practical, and balanced, i like symmetry aswell so i have my drums set up as std, 3 cymbals to the left of the toms, 3 to the right and the cowbell in the middle. Does anyone else have a particular set up that makes playing the kit "practical"?
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  #114  
Old 08-08-2005, 03:34 AM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

my drumset is very basic. 4 piece, single pedal, hi hats, 2 crashes, and a ride. It has done me well because now i learn alot more so that i dont have to depend on 6 or 7 toms.
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  #115  
Old 08-08-2005, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: Is Your Drumset Practical?

its not the size of the wand...but the magic of the wizard who is waving it.
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  #116  
Old 09-03-2005, 04:15 PM
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Default THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

So I've been drumming for about 5 years now and my kit's 3 toms, snare, single bass, hi hat and 3 cymbals. I always get into arguments with my friends for criticizing other drummers for having such big kits. Sure it's kind of justifiable if the drummer uses it all, but I think the core of drumming is being able to pick out what sounds good with the music, not technique. Personally I don't think it's ever necessary for a drummer to use more than a double bass, 3 or 4 toms, snare, hi hat, and 3 or 4 cymbals, what do you think?
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  #117  
Old 09-03-2005, 04:19 PM
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Default Re: Big kit or small kit?

I woud tend to agree that less is more - its a reflection of the skill and touch of the drummer to get a large array of sounds from a small set, Buddy Rich being the master of this. I would say that even the double bass is not necessary, it is possible to develop your single foot technique and combine with hand technique to anything (musical) that a double bass drummer can do.
That said, IMO the more the cymbals the better, cos it looks nice :)
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  #118  
Old 09-03-2005, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Big kit or small kit?

I would personnally prefer to have a larger kit, but I've always had a 5 piece kit, and I don't really see that much need for a really big kit. Although I do think that more cymbals is better, to get a variety of sounds, such as cup chimes and splashes etc.

I am looking into getting a six piece kit, as I have always wanted a 6 piece kit, but I think that that is a sensible size.
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  #119  
Old 09-03-2005, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: Big kit or small kit?

I recently picked up a DVD of the rock group Triumph at the Us festival in 1983. Gil Moore used this big kit, and I noticed that each of his fills could be done on a kit that is significantly smaller for the same sound and effect.

There is no "right" kit, there is only your personal preference and what you can play. get and keep the size kit that you are comfortable with. My kit isn't the biggest, but it represents exactly what I want, and can play.

(optimally, a spectral spread of 8,10,12,14,16,18 toms and a single kick.) I use a main and side snare with a variety of cymbals.

I don't need all of it for all music that I play, but I can always use less drums.
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Old 09-03-2005, 04:39 PM
mlehnertz
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Default Re: Big kit or small kit?

I've got more drums than I know what to do with. The sizes go 8", 10", 12", 13", 14", 16" and a single 22" bass. My snares are the classic Ludwig Supraphonic, and two Yamaha snares (3.5" brass piccolo and 8" wood snare). Cymbals - hi-hat, ride, spash, china, 3 various sized/sound crash cymbals. Many others in the cases.

Sometimes I take the 8/10/12/16 set up with a full compliment of cymbals.

Sometimes I find myself taking the bass, snare, hi-hat, ride and single crash.

It really depends on the gig.
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