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  #81  
Old 05-12-2010, 05:34 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I went cymbal shopping last week and was sorely disappointed in the Zildjians and ended up buying a Sabian (actually I ordered it - we'll see if I like it!). I posted the details of this little shopping trip on this thread a few days ago.

I had a practice since then and hit my Zildjians by themselves just like I did at the music store and heard the same things I didn't like. But then I sat down and started playing the whole kit, at first by myself and then with the band, and I gotta say that those Zildjians are some great cymbals!
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  #82  
Old 05-12-2010, 06:01 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by DSCRAPRE View Post
That said, I think that people just like the Sabian logo better. :P
Not this people.

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  #83  
Old 05-12-2010, 07:25 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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I had a practice since then and hit my Zildjians by themselves just like I did at the music store and heard the same things I didn't like. But then I sat down and started playing the whole kit, at first by myself and then with the band, and I gotta say that those Zildjians are some great cymbals!
I know what you mean. When I finally bought the A medium ride, after getting home I pulled out my other cymbals and tapped them one by one. I started to doubt my purchase.

Come band practice, I set up the Z with no great expectations, half ready to kick myself ... before long it reached the point where I couldn't stop playing it! Whatever those dodgy tones were, they seemed to be the first ones lost in the total kit sound, leaving a heap of great tones on top.
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  #84  
Old 05-12-2010, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
I know what you mean. When I finally bought the A medium ride, after getting home I pulled out my other cymbals and tapped them one by one. I started to doubt my purchase.

Come band practice, I set up the Z with no great expectations, half ready to kick myself ... before long it reached the point where I couldn't stop playing it! Whatever those dodgy tones were, they seemed to be the first ones lost in the total kit sound, leaving a heap of great tones on top.
I think you have a very valid point Polly.

Maybe my hatred of Z's in general isn't rational because I listen to just the cymbals and don't give them any chances with the kit.

Oh well. I'm still sticking to my guns.
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  #85  
Old 05-13-2010, 05:05 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I don't hate Zildjian, I just like Paiste better.
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  #86  
Old 05-13-2010, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

As a completely biased and unsubjective opinion:

Sabian is for rock/metal
Zildjian and Paiste for everyone else.

That's the message I get on this forum, although I note that Jojo Mayer and Seb Rochford use Sabian and so like all generalisations ... they don't work on specifics.

Strangely I have no interest in Sabians but I do in Zildjian and Paiste!

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  #87  
Old 05-13-2010, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by Davo-London View Post
As a completely biased and unsubjective opinion:

Sabian is for rock/metal
Zildjian and Paiste for everyone else.

That's the message I get on this forum, although I note that Jojo Mayer and Seb Rochford use Sabian and so like all generalisations ... they don't work on specifics.

Strangely I have no interest in Sabians but I do in Zildjian and Paiste!

Davo
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Funny, I have traditionally looked at Paiste as the best for Metal, Punk, Hard Rock, or anything very loud, while Zildjians and Sabians for everything else. Of course the big three have changed things up in the past 10 or so years and you cannot really say that anymore. And I do believe that Sabian's marketing is much more aggressive and effective than Z or P.
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  #88  
Old 05-13-2010, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

Paiste FTW!

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  #89  
Old 05-13-2010, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
I know what you mean. When I finally bought the A medium ride, after getting home I pulled out my other cymbals and tapped them one by one. I started to doubt my purchase.

Come band practice, I set up the Z with no great expectations, half ready to kick myself ... before long it reached the point where I couldn't stop playing it! Whatever those dodgy tones were, they seemed to be the first ones lost in the total kit sound, leaving a heap of great tones on top.
I have a similar story of a similar cymbal! It was an A Sweet Ride 21" (So a bit thinner than yours Polly) which sounded just a tad too washy in the store but it was very crashable (which is what I was looking for) and impulsively picked it up. Of course I was worried that with all the wash, the ping would get lost in the mix, but I was very wrong. It sounds stellar and has actually caused a change in my playing. Where before I never hit it with the shoulder of the stick, now thats practically all I do!! I'm able to get a big open sound by hitting with the shoulder, then tip (think like most people hit their hihats). Oh and the the bell is heavenly!!!

Anywho to answer the OP's question if you were to read any threads on the Zildjian Pitch Black's, yeah it would sound like their's a lot of hate towards Zildjian on the internets. But all in all the general concensus here seems to be that every cymbal company has great sounding cymbals, but sound is all subjective.

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  #90  
Old 05-13-2010, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by Pass.of.E.r.a. View Post
every cymbal company has great sounding cymbals, but sound is all subjective.

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BINGO!!!!! I couldn't agree more with this.
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  #91  
Old 05-13-2010, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

Zildjians 'pro' lines: A Custom, K Custom (some may include Z Custom)

Sabian's 'pro' lines: AA, AAX, HH, HHX (some may include Xs20)
and within those four are a plethora of sub-lines.

Honestly I just like the selection of Sabian. I can mix all different kinds of sounds. Their customer service (from what I've dealt with) is also ASTOUNDING.


I don't have anything against Zildjian, my current ride is by them. I just happen to have collected Sabians for my cymbals because quite honestly, they tend to go for a little less on ebay. I see most K Customs go for well over 150, but I have paid under $100 for almost every cymbal I bought by Sabian.

That, is why I play (almost) all Sabians. And remember, unless you're planning on endorsing someone, DON'T glue yourself to their lines!!! Play around, mix and match, so that you create your own sound/mix!
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  #92  
Old 05-14-2010, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

How about hard facts?

Been playing drums for 35 years and when I'd see my favorite drummers play live ... I'd go buy the same cymbals ... but my Zildjians did not sound as good ... WHY NOT?

Poor production quality and Mr Zildjian kept the best stuff for his "best players". We all got the crap. After many years of not finding good sounding cymbals ... Paiste came out.

AND they had more consistent production quality. When I'd go see the Paiste players ... I could buy the same cymbal and get a similar sound. I would assume the Zildjian production quality is better now ... but why risk it.

So count me in the Zildjian ... hate ;) camp.

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  #93  
Old 05-14-2010, 01:24 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by mg33 View Post
How about hard facts?

Been playing drums for 35 years and when I'd see my favorite drummers play live ... I'd go buy the same cymbals ... but my Zildjians did not sound as good ... WHY NOT?

Poor production quality and Mr Zildjian kept the best stuff for his "best players". We all got the crap. After many years of not finding good sounding cymbals ... Paiste came out.

AND they had more consistent production quality. When I'd go see the Paiste players ... I could buy the same cymbal and get a similar sound. I would assume the Zildjian production quality is better now ... but why risk it.

So count me in the Zildjian ... hate ;) camp.

MG

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I'm both a lover of Paiste and Zildjian. (Also, Been playing for over 40 years)
Your statements simply are not true!
Zildjian produces great sounding pies! The production quality of their A's and K's is excellent! The Constantinople's are also great!
So are countless other pies that they manufacture!
They sell the consumer their best products!
Look at the K Custom Hybrid series, For an example that comes quickly to my mind.
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  #94  
Old 05-14-2010, 01:38 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by Jessiah331 View Post
Zildjians 'pro' lines: A Custom, K Custom (some may include Z Custom)

{EDIT: Z Custom is out of production at this point, It's called Z3 now}

Sabian's 'pro' lines: AA, AAX, HH, HHX (some may include Xs20)
and within those four are a plethora of sub-lines.
I think that you're neglecting to mention Avedis (the basic equivalent to Sabian AA) and K (HH). Those are definitely pro level lines. In fact they are basically the standard. Avedis is THE original cymbal line (as far as I know).

Last edited by DSCRAPRE; 05-14-2010 at 01:45 AM. Reason: nitpicking
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  #95  
Old 05-14-2010, 01:42 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Poor production quality and Mr Zildjian kept the best stuff for his "best players". We all got the crap.
I guess it was only a matter of time before someone came along and dusted off that silly old myth.

You do know what you're saying, don't you? You're saying, in effect, that those of us who play Zildjian cymbals don't know the difference between a quality cymbal and a crap one.
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  #96  
Old 05-14-2010, 01:49 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

wow... 3 pages strong!

I still love Zildjian, but will be waiting for the UPS man tomorrow who is bringing me my new Power Slave. Yes, it's true...I am switching to "the dark side"...

for now.
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  #97  
Old 05-14-2010, 01:53 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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How about hard facts?

Hard facts?.....long bow mate.

I've got some sweet sounding Zildjian's that will last my drumming journey with me. Maybe it was not only the endorsing artists, but also those of us in Melbourne that got the quality then hey?

Not saying you shouldn't "hate" them by any measure.....your ears are your best guide indeed. But I doubt I'd call it a "hard fact" that they're hate worthy becuase you personally don't like them either.
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  #98  
Old 05-14-2010, 01:58 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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I guess it was only a matter of time before someone came along and dusted off that silly old myth.

You do know what you're saying, don't you? You're saying, in effect, that those of us who play Zildjian cymbals don't know the difference between a quality cymbal and a crap one.
Yea, that's right J, We can't tell a second rate pie when we play one!

Part of this "Special Cymbals for Special Folks" myth came from Zildjian themselves. There is mention of a "Vault" on their site. This is just marketing hype!
True, some pies may be put away for sampling purposes. This is just so that they have a sound standard to compare to when testing pies for quality control.
They will manufacture and sell the same quality cymbal to you that they sell to a pro. Yes, individual cymbals vary slightly from each other. This can't be helped.
Every cymbal company deals with this issue.
If a cymbal doesn't meet quality standards, It will be rejected and recycled in their processing. All cymbal manufacturers do this.

The people that go to work at Zildjian every day show up with the intent to make a quality product just as you and I do when we go to work.
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  #99  
Old 05-14-2010, 04:08 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I used Zildjian throughout my early school years. Grohl was a key influence to me, I used to play lots of Nirvana. Rage Against The Machine too.

Switched to Sabian eventually, now I'm back to Zildjian. I think both companies are great, but I definitely prefer the Zildjian sound.

I don't have much money to spend on drums/cymbals atm so everything I do is a mix of what the best thing I can get for the amount of money I had. In my situation now, that's landed me with some Zildjian ZBTs and honestly, I was really surprised at how good they sounded
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  #100  
Old 05-14-2010, 05:50 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

once Zildjian tried to "diversify" it's sound to appeal to all buyers no matter who they are i think they lost their "voice".

i loved their stuff back in the 70's and early 80's. but, other than the "Armand" series, i couldn't see myself buying their stuff again in this day and age.

it would take a LOT to drag me away from Paiste after 25 years of using them exclusively.
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  #101  
Old 05-14-2010, 07:11 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by DSCRAPRE View Post
I think that you're neglecting to mention Avedis (the basic equivalent to Sabian AA) and K (HH). Those are definitely pro level lines. In fact they are basically the standard. Avedis is THE original cymbal line (as far as I know).
I DID forget Avedis, my mistake. And I didn't know that K was separate from K Custom!?

I'll accept that I was wrong in this statement! I'm not a Zildjan expert lol
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  #102  
Old 03-16-2013, 01:16 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

i dont hate zildjian but ill give some reasons one might.............

1. their marketing strategy is basically zildjian are the best, which is probably why all this cymbal brand crap even happens. i dont know many unsponsored guitarists or bassists who argue about string brands! if vinnie coliauta had of switched to zildjian they would have used it as an opportunity to tell everyone how they are the best where paiste let vinnie explain why he switched then said we're thrilled he chose to play our cymbals.
2. inconsistency, if they really are commited to making great cymbals and are the only serious choice why are they letting all the duds through? i think these days they are more about selling a product than making high quality instruments!
3. living in the past and lack of innovation....look at a meinl or paiste catalog then look at a zildjian one, all of their pro lines are b20 and both paiste and meinl use at least 3 alloys and have multiple lines for the different alloys which equals more diversity and options for sounds, and meinl have all those cool/different/just plain weird effects cymbals aswell. i think this is a big one, when i first started drumming meinl were nobodies but these days they are preety huge!...i think sabian only do b20 aswell but they are at least a bit creative.
4. everyone else plays zildjian, your out gigging and everyone seems to be playing zildjian. why would you want to try to be and sound just like everyone else?
5. idiots who say zildjian is the best and everything else is crap but dont really have any reason for their viewpoint other than what theyve read in the countless pages of zildjian propoganda. like people who say paiste is too bright but have probably never even played any of them or even heard of the dark energy, formula 602 or traditionals lines.
6. when they take a stab at other companies. i remember reading an article in modern drummer where they took a stab at paiste because they couldnt bring b8 bronze down to a north american affordability(see their we're american therefore better marketing thing there), but really all of paistes budget cymbals are b8 bronze and their 2002 cymbals arent that expensive compared to pro line zildjians. obviously zildjian are just jealous that they couldnt figure out how to make quality cymbals out of b8.
7. they have crammed artist rosters which cant be good for the less well known guys who need some help reaching the bigtime, seriously if they didnt have most of your favourite drummers locked on their roster would all these people be out buying their cymbals without taking a look at some of the other options availiable aswell?
8. people with a superiority complex who hijack videos of other brands cymbals on mycymbal for instance to say zildjian are better. if you do that your just asking for people to decide they hate zildjian!! i seriously hate those people!

Last edited by bermuda; 03-16-2013 at 05:28 PM. Reason: Expletives replaced
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  #103  
Old 03-16-2013, 01:49 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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1. their marketing strategy is basically zildjian are the best,
No kidding? Now there's a novel approach.....I wonder why no-one else has thought of it. :-)

Honestly, can you name me a company anywhere in the world, that prides itself on being the "second best" and is happy to roll with it as an advertising strategy?
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  #104  
Old 03-16-2013, 02:22 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

If I walk into a drum store and test a wall of cymbals MOST of them will sound bad to me. I can accuse most major brands of putting out alot of garbage. I don't really know how hard it is to make a good cymbal and I'm not sure what the guys at the plant think when they deem them saleable. I guess some clueless/tone deaf idiot will come along and buy it, and the cycle continues. Not me!
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  #105  
Old 03-16-2013, 02:45 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

It takes time to find qualities in a cymbal, just as it takes time to find qualities in a drum. As a cymbal is part of what we use as a complete instrument, it's contribution is contextual. All drums & cymbals have a primary voice, but also many other layers. It takes a while to dial in to what the instrument has to offer, & playing time to tease out tones that please in the context of the other kit elements plus the music situation. Both drums & cymbals sound very different solo in comparison to contributing to a musical performance. The room is a major factor too. It's quite likely that a certain cymbal will sound crap when played solo in a bedroom, yet come alive when played in a live band gig scenario. Once you've lived with a cymbal for some time, & used it in a number of different situations, that's the time to really judge it's value.
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  #106  
Old 03-16-2013, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

Perhaps it would be pertinent to point out that Zildjian and Sabian are the 2 halves of the original Zildjian company, both are run by people called Zildjian?

Cymbals are cymbals- there are only the ones you like and the ones you don't. I've been a Zildjian user for 30+ years ever since I could afford a decent cymbal (my first was a 16" brilliant finish K dark crash). I like other cymbal lines, but have been served well by my Zildjians over the years and have never seen any reason to change. I have frequently bought their wares sight unseen and never been disappointed.

And as for mixing brands, it's against my low level autistic tendencies....
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  #107  
Old 03-16-2013, 04:13 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I like the sounds of many cymbals, and many of them say "Zildjian" on them. All the cymbals I own are Sabian, but that has not always been the case. There are too many choices of cymbal sounds out there. I do not have the time or the resources to be an expert on all of them. So far, by looking at only Sabian, I have found sounds that work for me. So for me it is not a matter of hate but a matter of not that interested. Peace and goodwill.
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  #108  
Old 03-16-2013, 04:17 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I wish each one of us had an hour to spend in Boston with Frank Epstein.
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  #109  
Old 03-16-2013, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Honestly, can you name me a company anywhere in the world, that prides itself on being the "second best" and is happy to roll with it as an advertising strategy?
Back in the '60s in the US, I think it was Avis rent-a-car who built a successful "We try harder" campaign on being #2 (to Hertz.) I don't know if they ever beat out Hertz, but they're still going strong.

Apart from them however, I can't think of anyone else. :)

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  #110  
Old 03-16-2013, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
It takes time to find qualities in a cymbal, just as it takes time to find qualities in a drum. As a cymbal is part of what we use as a complete instrument, it's contribution is contextual. All drums & cymbals have a primary voice, but also many other layers. It takes a while to dial in to what the instrument has to offer, & playing time to tease out tones that please in the context of the other kit elements plus the music situation. Both drums & cymbals sound very different solo in comparison to contributing to a musical performance. The room is a major factor too. It's quite likely that a certain cymbal will sound crap when played solo in a bedroom, yet come alive when played in a live band gig scenario. Once you've lived with a cymbal for some time, & used it in a number of different situations, that's the time to really judge it's value.
Most insightful post in the thread. I think it's important to pay more attention and be more open to the big picture (in cymbals/drums as well as life) instead of having opinions. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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  #111  
Old 03-16-2013, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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i dont hate zildjian but ill give some reasons one might...
Welcome to the forum, we look forward to more spirited discussion with you (but watch your language.) Let me address a few of the points you've made.

Quote:
2. inconsistency, if they really are commited to making great cymbals and are the only serious choice why are they letting all the duds through? i think these days they are more about selling a product than making high quality instruments!
In order for any company to continue to sell product, the quality must be good enough to satisfy their customers. With regard to cast cymbals, there's going to be a certain amount of inconsistency in pitch and character. Most or all lathed cast cymbals are done so by hand, and that's where the variations occur. Some drummers love those differences, just the way they love the anomalies in a natural wood finish kit where there's a lot of grain variation and figuring. Others prefer the grain to be even and consistent on a single drum, as well as the entire kit. To each their own, eh?

But I'll agree that Zildjian has had more than their share of duds in the A series over the last 20 years or so, as evidenced by simply checvking the cymbals in any store and counting the number that are dry and lifeless. Typically, they outnumber the great-sounding cymbals, but again, each of us hears something different in our head.

However, the fact that the dry cymbals are put out there with the sweet ones is either a quality control issue, or a deliberate decision to try and sell the 'bad' cymbals along with the good. I suspect that most cymbals companies have some clinkers, but they don't send them out to the stores, and that's the real difference.

Quote:
4. everyone else plays zildjian, your out gigging and everyone seems to be playing zildjian. why would you want to try to be and sound just like everyone else?
This applies to drums, heads, etc. as well. I'm not sure where the rejection of existing, successful players and their sound comes from, but if I like a particular cymbal sound, I want that sound, too. Why not... is the goal to always be different? It's just not possible.

Quote:
5. idiots who say zildjian is the best and everything else is crap but dont really have any reason for their viewpoint other than what theyve read in the countless pages of zildjian propoganda. like people who say paiste is too bright but have probably never even played any of them or even heard of the dark energy, formula 602 or traditionals lines.
I don't know of anyone with an opinion about cymbal sounds, who hasn't actually heard them. I know that marketing's role is to form opinions in their target customers' minds, but drummers are more concerned with sounds, and want to hear something before deciding whether they like or dislike it, or if the marketing is true.

I wll say that most Paiste's are bright, because based on my observations, they are. At least, the 91 Paistes in my aresenal are sizzly, glassy, or whatever other term for "bright" would also apply. Should someone reading that take the same opinion just because I did? No, they should listen to some cymbals themselves.

Quote:
7. they have crammed artist rosters which cant be good for the less well known guys who need some help reaching the bigtime, seriously if they didnt have most of your favourite drummers locked on their roster would all these people be out buying their cymbals without taking a look at some of the other options availiable aswell?
First, a company's artists do not get any genuine career benefits from their association with that company. An endorsement is neither good or bad in terms of "reaching the bigtime"... career advancement is up to the drummer. Nobody ever got to the next level because of the brand(s) they endorse, and plenty of players make big career leaps when they have no endorsements at all.

Second, you're right about drummers making decisions based on who endorses what, and I always urge them to decide for themselves. The question of whether endorsements have value, and "who here buys gear based on who endorses it?" are recurring topics here and in other fora. Of course the companies want to influence potential buyers with celebrity endorsements, and it's hardly limited to the musical instrument industries. I suppose that there are a certain amount of people who will buy something because they like or have heard of the person endorsing it. But I think that the vast majority of drummers employ some due diligence before buying, due in particular to the expense involved in purchasing drums and cymbals.

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  #112  
Old 03-16-2013, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by Migaluch View Post
Lately its been pretty clear to me that a lot of people (at least online) hate (or just don't prefer) Zildjian and love other cymbal manufacturers, especially Sabian. Being a new drummer, i can't say i am familiar with all of these companies' sounds, but i heavily favor Sabian's products. It seems that no one really gives Zildjian a lot of praise from what i have seen (though the Ks are liked a lot). Isn't Zildjian the original company, or at least the main one? And what about not so popularized brands, are they any good? What are the truths in the world of cymbals? Let a new drummer learn.

I've probably got it all wrong, but hey!
I have never heard much Zildjian hate. There are always going to be snobs who won't touch something if too many other people like it (I'm like that about a few things too). They are the most popular brand and one of the oldest companies still in operation, founded in 1492. So it's not surprising if they have some detractors.
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  #113  
Old 03-16-2013, 07:01 PM
mxo721 mxo721 is offline
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I wish MORE people hated them, that way I could buy a bunch of them cheaper. I have both zildjian and sabian, I love them both. I don't care at all what people's opinions are about gear, I buy what sounds good to me.
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  #114  
Old 03-16-2013, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by mg33 View Post
How about hard facts?

Been playing drums for 35 years and when I'd see my favorite drummers play live ... I'd go buy the same cymbals ... but my Zildjians did not sound as good ... WHY NOT?

Poor production quality and Mr Zildjian kept the best stuff for his "best players". We all got the crap. After many years of not finding good sounding cymbals ... Paiste came out.

AND they had more consistent production quality. When I'd go see the Paiste players ... I could buy the same cymbal and get a similar sound. I would assume the Zildjian production quality is better now ... but why risk it.

So count me in the Zildjian ... hate ;) camp.

MG

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Not quite sure what the "best stuff" is. If you buy a cymbal and you like the sound, doesn't that make it the best stuff. If you don't like the sound you don't buy. I'm sure Mr. Zildjian has enough cymbals made to make everyone happy. That doesn't mean that every store you walk into is going to have every cymbal you like. You have to shop. I shop for shoes because every shoe store doesn't have my size or taste. I have Zildjian and Sabian. But only the ones my ears like. I can see Mr. Zildjian standing by the door going, great sound , keep it. Ehhh, not so good. send it to Guitar Center or forks. Oh my.
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  #115  
Old 03-16-2013, 07:17 PM
SirRimshot SirRimshot is offline
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

Go to a cymbal room, do the blindfold test and compare sounds. You may be surprised at the ones you like the best.

Been playing for lots of years and my setup is what is best for me, and includes many brands.

One of my best sounding cymbals is a 70's Paiste 404 crash. These were considered entry/intermediate back then, but just Google them and you will read that Paiste "caught on" that they were underpricing them "based on sound and quality", and this beauty is still sweet after almost 40 years.

My setup includes a 70's Zildjian Rock Ride, 90's A Custom hats/14-16-17 crashes, the Paiste 404 and a Sound Formula crash(broken glass clarity), Sabian AAXplosian crashes, Zildjian China's, Sabian PRO(90's) secondary hats, and two of the NEW Wuhan Traditional crashes, and they sound better than their price point. My splashes are both Zildjian and Paiste.

What I hear versus the LOGO is the basis for what I use.
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  #116  
Old 03-16-2013, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I really didn't realize people hated zildjian other than a few morons who played a zbt once and didn't like it. Are you kidding me? You can't call an entire brand bad off of a few lame reasons. Many drummers live zildjian, not because they are popular, but because they are quality. I have 2 zildjian, three meinls and three sabian cymbals. I don't buy for brand, I buy for what will work for me. Keep hating, but you might just leave out that perfect sound because you were too closed-minded.
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  #117  
Old 03-16-2013, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
The Sabian over Zildjian vibe started when Robert Zildjian and his brother Armand had a fight over the direction of the company, soon after the death of their father. Robert left Zildjian to form Sabian. The companies continue to be rivals.
I'm going to bump this old thread with this (above) which gets to the root of
the thread's whole premise.
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  #118  
Old 03-16-2013, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

When I was growing up it was pretty much Zildjian or trash can lids. I had a Camber in the '70s that was moderately playable but Krut and the rest were worthless.

As has been said, Zildjian and Sabian are splits from the same company. When Zildjian tries to innovate and make specialty products like big heavy rock cymbals, or super bright polished showpieces, they tend to go overboard and the line becomes a passing fad, soon hated. Sabian seems to be more astute in marketing and aims for a more boutique impression with more general purpose sound.

And like DW, Sabian seems to have been much more aggressive in marketing and signing endorsers. A DW kit with Sabian cymbals is turning into a kind of cliche. Not that it is bad, but it's kind of the no-brainer, this is "pro-level" stuff that "everybody" uses so I'll get some too.

Since I grew up with the Zildjian sound, the only Sabians that really appeal to me are the AA series, which are basically their builds of classic Avedis cymbals that Robert used to do when he was still part of the family company.

Then there is the inconsistency issue. Which Zildjian seems to have the strongest variation in. Among the lines that have sounds that I like (K, Avedis, Armand, A) it's not so much that some sound bad, but that they sound really different from one another. You can play somebody else's cymbal and love it, and then go looking to buy one only to be frustrated because you can't find one with that same sound. Paiste and then Bosphorus seems to have the best consistency that I've found. With Sabian somewhere in-between. In my experience Sabians tend to all be alright, but finding a magic one is rarer than with Zildjian. Whereas I can often find a better than average Zildjian among those I wouldn't buy at half the price.

I guess I put Sabian in with a lot of folks who make boutique guitars. They will look special, sound good and be well crafted. But not have that special mojo that comes when you find that lucky piece of wood (old or new) and fit that came together in a regular production piece in just the right way to create something really unique.
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  #119  
Old 03-16-2013, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

Genuinely never heard anyone dissing Zildjian.

Of what I've seen recently, it's been Soultone cymbals that have been on the receiving end of criticism. People saying they endorse many players who aren't at a good level to deserve endorsements.
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  #120  
Old 03-16-2013, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by Souljacker View Post
People saying they endorse many players who aren't at a good level to deserve endorsements.
Welllll...............

Additionally, I'm not totally sure about their quality of construction due to many things including this video from Stephen (who is on this forum occasionally, I believe).
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