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  #1  
Old 09-06-2018, 12:55 AM
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Default Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

It's been a while since this has been debated, but not trying to rehash any old debates. Those debates usually included: well, if you don't like it, then your too old or narrow minded. No point in beating that same dead horse.

I came across this today and it kinda reminded me of the documentary on Netflix a while ago about how the same studio musicians have been responsible for most of what we hear today. I forget the name of the Documentary. I'm sure someone will recall. There may be more to it for those of us who have grown board with modern music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVME...&frags=pl%2Cwn
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Old 09-06-2018, 12:59 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Standing in the Shadows of Motown was one film, and I think the other was Muscle Shoals. I'm not bored with todays music, I hardly listen. Too much computerization for me. Music is too thinned out meaning anyone can cut or produce a CD in their basement now using a DAW on their computer. I don't even know if there is a Pop or modern music station in my area, because I haven't gone looking. You may say, well then you are missing a lot, and I may be, but I'm fine with everything up to about 1980.
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Old 09-06-2018, 01:14 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

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Originally Posted by AzHeat View Post
I

I forget the name of the Documentary. I'm sure someone will recall.



Hired guns is probably the one you're thinking of.
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Old 09-06-2018, 01:34 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Could have been The Wrecking Crew.
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Old 09-06-2018, 01:46 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

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Hired guns is probably the one you're thinking of.
That's it. The attached video shows it's worse than we thought.
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  #6  
Old 09-06-2018, 02:34 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Here's a thought, Repetition is not songwriting.
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:46 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

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Here's a thought, Repetition is not songwriting.
Not necessarily, Rage Against the Machine made pretty good use of repetition that works.
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:56 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

The problem I have with listening to a lot of modern songs is the extreme dynamics being used (not soft dynamics but just plain loud from beginning to end).

That and any song where the chorus is heard 3-5 times more than a verse of only one or two sentences in length being "sung" with autotune.
It gets me out of the grocery store asap every time. But maybe that's their plan??
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Old 09-06-2018, 03:18 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

It has no heart, no sincerity. It hasnít for a long time. Exceptions are rare.
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Old 09-06-2018, 03:44 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Compare the music used on commercials today vs 60's and 70's. The singer-songwriter little girl voices that sing iindecipherable unintelligible lyrics in today's commercials. And everywhere else I hear that drivel. It's what modern "pop" music is all about. It's pretty horrible.
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Old 09-06-2018, 03:54 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Modern pop music makes me cringe, if its like the kind being played in the gyms and even force-fed into public shopping venues.

Whenever possible, I avoid it like the plague.

Too much like fast talking rapping, a jumble of words and horrible rhythms with little or no melody, incoherent electronic beats, etc. The effect of listening to that regularly must confuse a sane mind:)

Stop the Madness!
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:08 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Real quick point. There is plenty of good music being made and it's easier than ever to access it. You may have to comb through more because it's easier to release music now, but music didn't stop in 197whatever.
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:25 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

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..a jumble of words and horrible rhythms with little or no melody, incoherent electronic beats, etc..

Such, kinda weak, arguments are oft used by people who are not really into electronic music..

My argument against that would be that many of those beat-producers of Hip-Hop, EDM, etc have way more understanding about how a drumbeat works than 99% of all the people on earth who actually play a drumset..

In my opinion musicians should always have a curious mind about new things that are going on..
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:20 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

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Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
many of those beat-producers of Hip-Hop, EDM, etc have way more understanding about how a drumbeat works than 99% of all the people on earth who actually play a drumset..

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Old 09-06-2018, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

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Originally Posted by Seafroggys View Post
Not necessarily, Rage Against the Machine made pretty good use of repetition that works.
That's your opinion.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

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Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
Such, kinda weak, arguments are oft used by people who are not really into electronic music..

My argument against that would be that many of those beat-producers of Hip-Hop, EDM, etc have way more understanding about how a drumbeat works than 99% of all the people on earth who actually play a drumset..

In my opinion musicians should always have a curious mind about new things that are going on..
https://youtu.be/QfsdIb-UuXs tell it to these guys.
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  #17  
Old 09-06-2018, 07:52 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
Such, kinda weak, arguments are oft used by people who are not really into electronic music..

My argument against that would be that many of those beat-producers of Hip-Hop, EDM, etc have way more understanding about how a drumbeat works than 99% of all the people on earth who actually play a drumset..

In my opinion musicians should always have a curious mind about new things that are going on..
I meet a lot of young people through work and consequently a lot of so-called "dj's" or "producers" and whatever other names they bestow on themselves. Through talking and experimenting musically a bit with them, and I have to say... I have a hard time considering most of them actual musicians.

Did some "testing" on a few occasions and it turns out I have a much easier time replicating what they consider their art than the other way around. And I don't even mean sitting behind the set or even just a pair of conga's and producing something even somewhat resembling real rhythm...that would just be unfair, seeing as they don't have thousands of hours of their life dedicated to mastering an instrument. I mean coming up with a beat that somehow sounds as if it was played by a real human. Nope, no sense of nuance, no sense of dynamics and only a hint of how a drumbeat works inside a piece of music.
I, on the other hand, needed only a few examples to listen to, to come up with some typical beats that survived the scrutiny of their fellow producers without them knowing it was just a bit of messing around. I also did some work as examples on creating something that sounded more human and that takes a lot more time. There's just so much more that goes into it. Even a simple hihat part needs specific dynamics for practically every hit throughout a song to resemble a human effort. No wonder they failed miserably.

Please remember this was all in good fun though, as it was just a middle aged drummer talking with people barely in their twenties. We did it for fun!

Are there folks in the genre that are really talented and do groundbreaking stuff with all the dots and blocks of data in a DAW? Undoubtedly, but I'd submit that most people with actual playing ability can do a better job at creating stuff on the computer grid than 99% of the so-called "deejays and producers"! Maybe they'd need a listening crash course on what would be hip these days, but then they'd have the enormous headstart of actually knowing how a drumbeat works
(to paraphrase you)
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  #18  
Old 09-06-2018, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Studio programmers. Not studio musicians.
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  #19  
Old 09-06-2018, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ineedaclutch View Post
Real quick point. There is plenty of good music being made and it's easier than ever to access it. You may have to comb through more because it's easier to release music now, but music didn't stop in 197whatever.
It's not even hard to find, Spotify is always recommending me great new music.
Just avoid mainstream radio stations and people will find that it's very easy to enjoy modern music.
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  #20  
Old 09-06-2018, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Since my adolescence, I've honestly only liked a small percentage of what passes for "popular" music. To me there were proportionately just as many songs which I wasn't the least bit interested in in the past as there are today.

As for drum set drummers, we don't have a monopoly on rhythm. There are producers out there who couldn't play a physical drum if their life depended on it, but can not only out-program or out-sample not a few drummers, but can create music in which EVERYTHING contributes to the rhythmic propulsion of the work.

How can we not be enamored with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lXD0vv-ds8

or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgdoPtMAobU
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  #21  
Old 09-06-2018, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

It's completely devoid of balls, feel, taste, talent. There's no need to master your instrument. Up until the early 90s there was the session guys and you had to be able to sing (Milli Vanili aside). Not needed anymore. Way too much turd polish available to producers.

What's more interesting is to look at who headlines big festivals and packs big venues out. Nobody new, they can't play, never mind play live!

Pop music peaked 50+ years ago when you had both sides of the Atlantic pumping out hit after hit with the bar set stupidly high and trying to push it further. I always say to my parents they were lucky to have been around at that time.

Lets face it though, it's all about likes and views now.
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  #22  
Old 09-06-2018, 02:35 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Let's not forget the Boy Bands, which aren't bands at all but Choral groups.
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  #23  
Old 09-06-2018, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

I for one am sick to death of the horrid electronic handclap back beat. At least give me real handclaps. It's been hanging on for like 40 years like a piece of gum on my shoe.

I really appreciate hearing a real snare drum now.
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  #24  
Old 09-06-2018, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

the answer my friend is blowing in the wind...
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:53 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Perhaps the best music to people might be a point in time growing up. The young people today will probably say the same thing about current music not being as good when their older. I think it's always been like that. It still doesn't negate the fact I think the best music was in the 60s and 70s though.
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Old 09-06-2018, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Rick sums it up pretty well here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuGt-ZG39cU
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  #27  
Old 09-06-2018, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

I like to think the type of music I prefer has a conversation built into the performance.

The musicians are telling their story in a conversational performance with the other musicians.

Modern pop seems to force cultural conversation as a substitute for musical conversation.
It gives me the impression that the music is the simple framework for the story and for the story to sell, it should stay within the simplicity of the mob and its subsets.

Kanye and Taylor make it seem easy because they're really good at it.
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Old 09-06-2018, 03:32 PM
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To some it is rowing up in an era and identifying with a certain genre. When 50s rockabilly came out, the older generation was horrified, I remember all the press about 80s music being of the devil. That's not it here at all. I think most of the degradation is the fact that music is just not taught in schools anymore, so the public is for the most part void of any music theory or skill.

Everything is spoon fed these days, so why not music. Music may be generational to some, but that doesn't explain the degradation of quality lyrics. If two guys are responsible for 90% of what's heard, then that explains why it all sounds the same. If music is now a formula, then it explains why two guys have been able to produce 1000+ songs in the past decade using a keyboard, drum machine and computer. Plug in catchy arrangements and let the computer crap out different variations of the formula. Lyrics are tough, so no point in trying for anything, if your just craping out the next catchy tune to sell next week.

There is still good music today, you just have to dig for it. Problem is, everyone is digging in different areas. There's no cohesiveness, so no two people find the same things. That speaks volumes to why giving is dying. It's play the same pop music formula of today, or the classics. The classics are dying with the generation, so soon there won't be any call for live music.

I remember watching the Original Battlestar Galactica series and every time they had a bar scene, there was these horrendous, yet catchy tunes playing in the background with dancers making slithering moves with rods of light....those episodes seemed prophetic!

Interestingly, music hasn't died like it has in the west in other countries. It's very much alive, played by real humans with real instruments. Artists even write their own stuff...heaven forbid!
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Old 09-06-2018, 03:41 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
Rick sums it up pretty well here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuGt-ZG39cU
So, maybe the fix is to buy the producers all one way tickets on the first flight to Mars? LOL!
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Old 09-06-2018, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

From a Wall St. Journal article:

Quote:
In July [2017], R&B/hip-hop surpassed rock for the first time to officially become the biggest music genre in America, according to Nielsen Music, which tracks online streams and digital and physical albums. As of Oct. 12, R&B/hip-hop has driven 24% of music consumption in 2017ómore than rockís 21% and double popís 12% share.

So far this year, 20 of the 25 most-streamed songs on Spotify, Apple Music and other on-demand audio services are by R&B/hip-hop acts such as Kendrick Lamar, Migos, Childish Gambino and Lil Uzi Vert, Nielsenís data shows. Two are by male pop stars (Ed Sheeran, Bruno Mars).
I have only this one tune from this genre in my paid-for music library, otherwise I never listen to rap/r&b/hip-hop. Because that music doesn't move me at all. No toe tapping, no head bobbing. Nothing.
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

I remember listening to Elton's "Funeral for a Friend" big orchestral dramatic sound. I don't think they played it on the radio back then?-but they sure did "Crocodile Rock" which still makes me nauseous. I just couldn't fathom the dichotomy of the two songs by Elton. But I never understood "disco" during the 70s when there was so much really good music. I blame the Bee Gees LOL-they sure stood the Pop test of time 50s-70s till early 2000s. I don't understand why R&B is grouped with hip-hop-the former long predates the later?
Wouldn't it be interesting if there was a Bizarro World US where musical taste were all opposite so classical, jazz, and other minor forms would be the dominant and hip-hop, rock, pop, etc all minor genres. I'm lighting this fire cracker and going to run like hell LOL.
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:49 PM
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Wouldn't it be interesting if there was a Bizarro World US where musical taste were all opposite so classical, jazz, and other minor forms would be the dominant and hip-hop, rock, pop, etc all minor genres. I'm lighting this fire cracker and going to run like hell LOL.
There would be far more critical thinking than there is now. Get out of the way, I need to run faster than you...LOL!!!
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Old 09-06-2018, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

There's something funny about pop music these days.

When I was a kid (including all of the 1980s and early 1990s), the music on the radio made me WANT to play music. There were so many drum heroes and guitar heroes, I swear all of my friends at least TRIED to play something at one time or another. These days, all of the drummers you hear on the radio are faceless hired guns, and the most prominent guitar players on the radio now are Ed Sheeran and Taylor Swift as opposed to Eddie Van Halen and Slash.

I guess my primary critique of today's pop music is that it's uninspiring.
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Old 09-06-2018, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Hasn't pop music always been simple and repetitive, based on the same four chords and songs structures?

I feel like there's a bit of nostalgic confirmation bias, where we pit the top 10 songs from the whole of the 1960s (because we remember them!)
against something on the radio last week. Sure, making boring, repetitive pop music requires less musical skill than it used to, and there's a lot more of it available, but I would hazard a guess that we could find as many truly great pop songs between 2008-2018 as there were between 1968-1978.

Love a good controversial thread!
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Old 09-06-2018, 05:18 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

We also love what we remember from our youth - as a 90s kid, pop music from that era makes me grin and dance wildly, but I'm not sure it was exactly brilliant!
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Old 09-06-2018, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

LOL. I agree with most of the posters here in that I seldom find anything new that really intrigues me. As a kid, I used to bemoan what I called the 'Barry Manilow' form where songs would build and then go up a half step on the final chorus. Now I decry the dumbed-down 'product' put out to appeal to consumers with little music knowledge. I call it the Disney approach. Lyrics are either stupid or offensive, accompanied by a beat track with a hook that kids can remember.

That said, almost every comment and complaint above could've been made by our grandparents when the music they were most comfortable with was displaced by pop and rock of the early 60's.

I'm thankful that my freshman daughter has recently discovered Motown. I hope it leads to a lot of the great music written in the past.
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Old 09-06-2018, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhydianjlewis View Post
Hasn't pop music always been simple and repetitive, based on the same four chords and songs structures?

I feel like there's a bit of nostalgic confirmation bias, where we pit the top 10 songs from the whole of the 1960s (because we remember them!)
against something on the radio last week. Sure, making boring, repetitive pop music requires less musical skill than it used to, and there's a lot more of it available, but I would hazard a guess that we could find as many truly great pop songs between 2008-2018 as there were between 1968-1978.

Love a good controversial thread!
Sure, we can find great pop songs from the 60s and the 2010s.

There's always been good music if you look for it.

Tin Pan Alley cranked out all sorts of goofy tunes by a bunch of up-doo girls and dopey limericky folks in the olden days.
There's always been awful music available nearest to our ears because it's usually used as a distraction.
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Old 09-06-2018, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

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Originally Posted by single-ply View Post
That said, almost every comment and complaint above could've been made by our grandparents when the music they were most comfortable with was displaced by pop and rock of the early 60's.
I think it's way more than that. Our grandparents were mostly horrified by the dancing and gyrations the "new" music brought, but musicians still had to create their music. New sounds, new approaches were allowed at least in some form to be explored. Today, at least in the west, it's a checkbox.

I'd agree with you, just speaking from myself here that a lot of music is what we're comfortable with and or introduced to in our youth. That doesn't explain at least for me, my absolute fondness of what other countries are producing. I can't speak to their lyrics. Don't understand a word of it, but even their pop has orchestration, vocal range, complex rhythms, etc., which at least to me says someone had to give the music some thought and not part of a predefined formula.
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  #39  
Old 09-06-2018, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

Modern technology makes it really easy to produce music. That is a blessing and a curse. For every deserving, talented musician out there who would have struggled to get recorded in the past, there are roughly a gajillion no-talent hacks who clutter op the landscape with crap.


That said, it's generational and a matter of opinion. Some people are inspired by modern, computer-generated music in ways they never would have been in the past. That's generally a good thing in my opinion.


I also tend to agree that some modern musicians know way more about music on a technical level than older folks who learned by feel. There are tons of modern musicians who understand arrangements for drums and across multiple instruments way better than some of the best old-school players, many of whom can't read a chart. That's not necessarily better or worse, just different.


And I can't help but feel there is a little yelling at the clouds here, along with some jaded resentment that newer players haven't paid their dues.
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Old 09-06-2018, 06:42 PM
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newoldie newoldie is offline
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Default Re: Why Modern Pop Music Is So Awful To Some!!!

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Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
Rick sums it up pretty well here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuGt-ZG39cU

Thx- Great video! Rick knows how to present the facts.
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