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  #161  
Old 11-25-2014, 08:36 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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My take on the "girl" thing is that while relatively trivial in itself, it has the potential to be the tip of an iceberg.

It's an example of the casual everyday sexism that is so ubiquitous it's barely even noticeable.

But when it's pointed out to people, some (not all and maybe not even many) will say "Oh I didn't realise, but I do now", and that causes them to examine their perceptions and language a little more.

So the next time they use a word other than "girl", when "girl" might have been expected, it might cause their audience to wonder why they didn't use it, and to examine their own perceptions and language a little more.

This is subtle stuff but "insidious filtering" like this can work for positive ends as I have described. It works jolly well for negative ends, certainly. I admit that I'm often not very subtle, which fault probably does more harm than good.
Absolutely, Madge, I was going to say iceberg as well!

Also, there's a difference between a man calling a woman a "girl" and a woman self-identifying herself with that term.

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I see it somewhat differently. I view equality as justice. I would also argue that it's men who have fought, and succeeded, to contain women.
Again, totally agreed.

I think, when talking about "Political Correctness", most in the US who complain about "PC" stuff are just complaining that they don't get to use offensive/outdated terms. It just doesn't seem like an issue to me in that sort of usage- however, when used to discuss a particular smarmy, white-toast manner of speaking, I can understand its negative connotation.
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  #162  
Old 11-25-2014, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

A few months ago, we had put out an ad on Craigslist looking for a lead guitarist. I had one guy call me who was all anxious to audition until he found out I was the lead singer. Now, keep in mind, he had never heard me sing so it had nothing to do with my singing ability. His response was "I can't be in a band with a female." This wasn't some kid but a 60 year old man who had been playing for years. At least he let us know that before getting too involved but still... Really makes me wonder what experiences, life or band, that he had had that gave him that attitude.
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  #163  
Old 11-25-2014, 08:51 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Absolutely agree 100% about relevance and context, but seeing it differently :)

Re "male nurse" - if we say "teacher", "lawyer" or "mortgage adviser", without any gender-specific prefix, why can't we just say "nurse"? Unless there is a particular reason why the person's gender may be relevant, and of course there are times when it may, I don't understand why it should be mentioned. We don't refer to ethnicity, colour, religion or sexual orientation as a matter of course.
Actually, we do in America. We have African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Jewish-Americans, etc. They are all Americans.
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  #164  
Old 11-25-2014, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

Thanks KIS. I'm sure you're right. It's not all men, obviously. Far from it, the majority in the bands I've been in have been fine. But you only need one to spoil the atmosphere (for me) and there are occasions when the "good guys" will think it's hilarious - or just not understand how disheartening it all is (why should they?) - and join in.

I think I'm the wrong age as well as the wrong gender! My age is another thing I don't generally think about. But all the bands I've been in were "mature" or mixed age group bands where there are men in their 50s and 60s and they are, frankly, the worst. I grew up in the 60s and started my career in the 70s when attitudes to women were very different, and it seems that old attitudes die hard. I think (generalising) younger men who grew up in more enlightened times are more ... well, enlightened, but they don't seem to want grandma behind the drum kit (not that I blame them for that).

I don't blame anyone really. It's just the way it is. I already miss playing in a band. I'm sure I'll try again soon. Full of hope and enthusiasm, as always !
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  #165  
Old 11-25-2014, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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I think, when talking about "Political Correctness", most in the US who complain about "PC" stuff are just complaining that they don't get to use offensive/outdated terms. It just doesn't seem like an issue to me in that sort of usage- however, when used to discuss a particular smarmy, white-toast manner of speaking, I can understand its negative connotation.
And back atcha, porter: totally agreed. Many, many of the people I know who describe themselves as "not very PC" are in fact the most likely to think, speak and act in a way that is egalitarian. The term has certainly acquired a pejorative connotation, and that may well be because of the dinosaurs who refuse to lift their mindset out of the bottom of the pond.

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Now, keep in mind, he had never heard me sing so it had nothing to do with my singing ability. His response was "I can't be in a band with a female."
How did that make you feel, Mary? Were you shocked, or just slightly surprised?

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Actually, we do in America. We have African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Jewish-Americans, etc. They are all Americans.
I meant ethnicity in conjunction with a profession, such as "Welsh quantity surveyor", which to me is pretty much equivalent to "male nurse". Could be relevant; most likely not to be.

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But you only need one to spoil the atmosphere (for me) and there are occasions when the "good guys" will think it's hilarious - or just not understand how disheartening it all is (why should they?) - and join in.
It's true. I'm astonished how badly I was affected by what happened to me: I've always liked to think that crap would bounce off me and I wouldn't give a damn, but that was far from the case. It shook me to the core.

I haven't had the age thing, except in a positive way: my (grown-up) daughters' friends think it's well cool to have a mum who plays drums - and to be fair to them, so do my daughters - and no less a drummer than Michèle Drees herself told me she admired me for taking up drumming so relatively late in life.

My band are great, Daisy. There are three feisty women and two men who are both married to feisty women. I can hardly bear to imagine how much it would hurt - and piss me off - if any of them behaved in such a way as to make me feel that I didn't want to be with them any more. I really really hope you find some great musicians who aren't total dipsticks.
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Old 11-25-2014, 10:01 PM
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  #166  
Old 11-25-2014, 10:35 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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I meant ethnicity in conjunction with a profession, such as "Welsh quantity surveyor", which to me is pretty much equivalent to "male nurse". Could be relevant; most likely not to be.
Welsh Male Voice Choir? :)

Here in Sydney we have the Manly Ladies Swimming Club.

As to the suggestion that only girls can say girls...what utter rot! I get that members of groups can 'claim' words as a way of defusing them, and in that case you'd better be a member of the group before using the term, but 'girl' is not such a word. It comes back to context and intent, and it's usually pretty darn' clear.

If I ask my wife and sister in law "What are you girls up to?" you'd be drawing a long bow to find something derogatory in the question.
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  #167  
Old 11-25-2014, 10:46 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

The entire 'girl' thing is purely contextual. Girl used to refer to young male and female alike. Then it referred to females who were not of sexual maturity. I tend to use it to describe females that are so young I have no sexual interest in them whatsoever (under 30), and who are demonstrably not deserving of the word 'woman'. I tend to use it in a direct tongue-and-cheek manner, and certainly not casually.

Two neat words I want to throw out there are "Lady" and "Belle".

Lady (for us unknowing americans) implies social privilege. We generally don't have that any more.

Belle implies a romanticized ideal that, much like lady, doesn't really exist any more.
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  #168  
Old 11-25-2014, 10:49 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

It's true that bar band scene is a step behind mainstream society - bar bands have long worked amongst society's underbelly. It's the roughest part of the music industry and naturally male-dominated, and contains a higher-than-usual percentage of meat-heads.

At its meanest you're lugging heavy gear into a dingy bar smelling of beer, urine and testosterone after midnight to play to drunks, stoners, junkies, crims, bikers, sex workers, etc. The rest of the music scene - sessions, classical, show bands, stage shows, restaurants etc - is more mixed and genteel.

There was a Modern Drummer article many years ago, an interview with a session percussionist (whose name I wish I could remember) and she was asked if she'd experienced sexism in the industry.

She said that if she was being treated poorly then she always assumed that the problem was her playing. So she would practice harder. She figured that, even if a dissing was based on sexism, if it spurred her to be a better player then she couldn't lose.

It's a lesson I never forgot and one I have applied to work as well as play. As things turned out, I never managed to be beyond reproach on drums but have been lucky to play in bands with mostly nice people :)

I'm fine with "girl" and well-meaning old school endearments. It's just naivete and old school chivalry; they don't mean to be patronising. But it's true that the bar scene is behind the times. As a woman in the scene you either choose your battles or feel pissed off all the time. As with the corporate scene, the bar band circuit is changing, but more slowly.
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  #169  
Old 11-25-2014, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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If I ask my wife and sister in law "What are you girls up to?" you'd be drawing a long bow to find something derogatory in the question.
Would you use the word to women who weren't family?
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  #170  
Old 11-25-2014, 11:12 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

I find myself in an unusual situation. I have a female lead singer. Nobody cares that she is female, but she seems to care that the rest of the band are male. To her, we have to do as she says, she gets time off all she wants etc, but if we want to take time off or do something we get a bollocking. She still does solo gigs but when we turned around and said we want to do a black keys style duo for when she cant do it, she pretty much banned us from it. She is very tough.

On my stance on femenism, im a femenist. I believe in equality, but i think that extends to everything. I know for some stupid reason that some believe men cant be raped by women, they can. And i also believe if a woman hits a man, the man fully has the right to hit the woman. This whole "a man is stronger and a woman is frailer so he still shouldnt punch her" is contradicting to the femenists whole play. I know women that are stronger than me, its lifestyle choice nothing more. Sorry if ANY offense was made during this post, im very pro women as anyone who has spent 5 minutes with me and sophie would know.
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  #171  
Old 11-25-2014, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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I find myself in an unusual situation. I have a female lead singer. Nobody cares that she is female, but she seems to care that the rest of the band are male. To her, we have to do as she says, she gets time off all she wants etc, but if we want to take time off or do something we get a bollocking. She still does solo gigs but when we turned around and said we want to do a black keys style duo for when she cant do it, she pretty much banned us from it. She is very tough.
Sounds like any prima donna singer. Although the term has gender connotations at its root it can certainly apply to either men or women. I know that I have worked with quite a few guys that meet that profile...
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  #172  
Old 11-25-2014, 11:27 PM
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Would you use the word to women who weren't family?
Sure.

It's a familiar term, so I wouldn't use it with women who I didn't already know.
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  #173  
Old 11-26-2014, 03:45 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

Remember the TV show called Golden Girls? Would it have as successful if they had called it Golden Ladies?
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  #174  
Old 11-26-2014, 07:51 AM
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Remember the TV show called Golden Girls? Would it have as successful if they had called it Golden Ladies?
That was back in the 80's. You've made my case for me ;)
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  #175  
Old 11-26-2014, 09:03 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Nah Bermuda I was just awestruck he would ask me such a question. He actually has a family pre-arranged marriage so he had no say in his choice of wife. Which I didn't realize that was still common. Since that time I had several students who also had pre-arranged marriages. Gee, I didn't mean to imply a "racial" overtone-just a cultural one. Guess just remembering the odd conversation and his view from another culture. But I see how it sounds that way. Besides I'm a biological scientist there is no thing as "race" only gene pools which don't associate with race nor skin tones.
I think that your friend may be an exception. i've worked with several indians whose wives were doctors or engineers. More often than not the wives were smarter than the husbands. The whole pre-arranged marriage thing is ridiculous.
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  #176  
Old 11-26-2014, 09:12 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

This thread has reminded me of my first reaction to a particularly Western United States term, "gals." My wife at the time interviewed for a job, and after the interview we were talking informally and I remember the manager saying something about "the gals" doing this or that. I kind of bristled, because it didn't sound very professional to me. Turns out, that usage doesn't mean a thing out here, and isn't considered derogatory or demeaning at all.

It taught me to be a little more tolerant, and listen to what people mean rather than the words they use.
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Old 11-26-2014, 11:16 AM
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This thread has reminded me of my first reaction to a particularly Western United States term, "gals." My wife at the time interviewed for a job, and after the interview we were talking informally and I remember the manager saying something about "the gals" doing this or that. I kind of bristled, because it didn't sound very professional to me. Turns out, that usage doesn't mean a thing out here, and isn't considered derogatory or demeaning at all.

It taught me to be a little more tolerant, and listen to what people mean rather than the words they use.
Spot on. The older I get the more I realise that life realy is too short to sweat much about what others say, or think. Control the controlable, as my old athletics coach used to say.

Some people are simply ignoranr or arrogant, so I avoid them when posible and life is better for doing that. I cant change them and I wont waste my time and energy trying. There is nowt as queer as folk. (No offence intended)
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  #178  
Old 11-26-2014, 11:37 AM
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The older I get the more I realise that life realy is too short to sweat much about what others say, or think. Control the controlable, as my old athletics coach used to say.

I cant change them and I wont waste my time and energy trying.
Just suppose, right, that Martin Luther King hadn't sweated about what others said or thought, and that he had considered it a waste of time and energy trying?

God knows, the world isn't perfect but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make it as good as it can be. For me, that means the small stuff as well as the big.
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  #179  
Old 11-26-2014, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Just suppose, right, that Martin Luther King hadn't sweated about what others said or thought, and that he had considered it a waste of time and energy trying?

God knows, the world isn't perfect but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make it as good as it can be. For me, that means the small stuff as well as the big.
MLK's fight was with outright racism - controls on who could sit where in the bus.

It wasn't with people who expressed friendly thoughts in not quite the right terms.
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Old 11-26-2014, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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How did that make you feel, Mary? Were you shocked, or just slightly surprised?

.
Shocked, mostly because of his choice of words...not that he preferred not to play in a band with a female, but that he couldn't. I understand that some people don't want to pky in a female fronted band because they don't want to do female singer songs. Although, truth be told, I sing more traditional male leads than I do female anyways. He was just so adamant. It was a little weird.
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  #181  
Old 11-26-2014, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Just suppose, right, that Martin Luther King hadn't sweated about what others said or thought, and that he had considered it a waste of time and energy trying?

God knows, the world isn't perfect but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make it as good as it can be. For me, that means the small stuff as well as the big.
I wasn't talking about the world, I was talking about trying to change stupid individuals. If a small thing were to realy upset me I would be giving in to it, and giving it credence, by the mere fact I was giving it my attention. As I say, you cant change stupid people by legislating, they will eventualy be marginalised, and have to change, by the mere fact that they end up with no friends or colleagues.

MLK was a civil rights leader and a politician, trying to change a whole nations racist system, so hardly a fair comparison to this discussion. We have legislation in place that bans systemic racist, sexist etc processes and behaviour, but you cant legislate for individual stpidity/ignorance.
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Old 11-26-2014, 01:24 PM
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Shocked, mostly because of his choice of words...not that he preferred not to play in a band with a female, but that he couldn't ... He was just so adamant. It was a little weird.
He probably wants the band to be a boys' club (use of "boys" wasn't deliberate at first, but it works in context :).

Quite possibly he was trying to escape the women in his life or maybe he was just one of those men who doesn't like women, or both. Whatever, it's just as well he effectively announced that he had bats in his belfry - if he'd "suffered" in silence, the band would be a drag.
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Old 11-26-2014, 02:04 PM
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MLK's fight was with outright racism - controls on who could sit where in the bus.

It wasn't with people who expressed friendly thoughts in not quite the right terms.
I was talking about the principle of effecting change.

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Shocked, mostly because of his choice of words...not that he preferred not to play in a band with a female, but that he couldn't. I understand that some people don't want to pky in a female fronted band because they don't want to do female singer songs. Although, truth be told, I sing more traditional male leads than I do female anyways. He was just so adamant. It was a little weird.
That really is extraordinary.

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I wasn't talking about the world, I was talking about trying to change stupid individuals. If a small thing were to realy upset me I would be giving in to it, and giving it credence, by the mere fact I was giving it my attention.
It's the people who aren't stupid, but who aren't aware, that I'd like to change. I do get what you say about giving credence to rubbish, but for me, not speaking out against it is tantamount to accepting it.
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  #184  
Old 11-26-2014, 03:09 PM
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I'm another who hasn't really experienced sexism for many, many years - until playing in bands. In our professional and business life it isn't tolerated and there are repercussions for any dinosaurs who still persist in it. They can think what they like, can't change that, but they can't express it or act on it. It's been systematically stamped out by anti-discrimination legislation which in the UK started in the mid 70s.

In a band situation, no. There's no job security, or anti-discrimination policies, or formal complaints procedures. My experience is that yer average pub band is the last resting place of discrimination. Whaddya gonna do? You can't win: if you object you're just branded as "over sensitive", or bolshie, or lacking a sense of humour, and you just reinforce their existing attitudes. Typical bloody woman in fact.

I've recently left yet another band. I'm sick of it all, and totally disillusioned about the whole band thing. It's not that my experiences were all overtly nasty, I'm just fed up with being constantly reminded that I'm a woman first and a band member second. I've always been a bit of a tomboy, I can change a tyre and handle an electric drill. I was a lawyer (and a construction lawyer too, pretty much a male dominated field). Not a female lawyer. Just a lawyer. No-one made a comical fuss about what sort of mood I was in this evening, or asked if I was OK gigging two nights running because "it can be tiring". Or whether I was OK to drive an hour to the gig. Or complimented me on my punctuality because "women are always late".

In my last band I heard these comments about the female singer too. She left, surprise surprise. The male singer who replaced her, who couldn't play any instrument, couldn't even shake a tambourine in time, sent me a lovely email saying goodbye and "I think you're a good drummer". Kindly meant, but why does he think I need his validation?

I didn't expect this when I first joined a band. I've been in four, and had this with all of them in one form or another. I'm a grandmother and way beyond causing the sort of difficulties that I'd heard about with female band members -the sexual tension sort of difficulties. I just wanted to be one of the boys, doing the job I was engaged to do, but I've come to the conclusion it's just not possible. Because in a band situation there are none of the barriers to inappropriate comments or behaviour (even the kindly meant variety) that are no longer tolerated in the workplace.

Sorry, had to get that off my chest. I am still sad about leaving that band. But all that stuff just wore me down. The whole thing just depresses the life out of me.
If you are someone who would find offence, or something negative, in a guy telling you that "you are a good drummer" then personally I think you'll never find any level of equality which would satisfy you.

No offence meant. But, really, you sound addicted to being offended.
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Old 11-26-2014, 03:19 PM
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  #185  
Old 11-26-2014, 03:23 PM
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Would you use the word to women who weren't family?
YEAHHHH.....all the time.

"What are you girls up to this lunchtime....want to go pub?"

My Boss...."ask the girls if they can assist you"

"Do you girls need to go early to get ready for the office night out"

ALL the time...these "girls" are late 40s in our office.

They're not remotely offended. Again, I fear your actively seeking things to be offended by (no offence !)

Jesus, I still walk around calling women "love". I don't love them, or want to bed them. I'm a Northerner, and it's how we are mostly. If someone's offended by it, sorry.
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Old 11-26-2014, 03:37 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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A few months ago, we had put out an ad on Craigslist looking for a lead guitarist. I had one guy call me who was all anxious to audition until he found out I was the lead singer. Now, keep in mind, he had never heard me sing so it had nothing to do with my singing ability. His response was "I can't be in a band with a female." This wasn't some kid but a 60 year old man who had been playing for years. At least he let us know that before getting too involved but still... Really makes me wonder what experiences, life or band, that he had had that gave him that attitude.
I've had bad experiences in bands that have taken on female singers. Not entirely (or necessarily remotely) the fault of the women, but the dynamic amongst a male band, especially if the males are all close knit/long term friends, changes. Of that I have no doubt.

One band folded because a guitarist and bassist who had a friendship stretching back 30 years, both ended up trading punches after a gig. Both wanted to bed this woman. She only wanted to bed one of them. And the band fractured as a result. The guitarist now lives with said woman (or did last time I heard from him), and has never spoken to the bassist since.

Maybe this guy has had similar issues in the past. And, despite equality and despite the fact that his view on women generally may not be palatable to us, it really is HIS choice if he wants to play in a band with a female in it.
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Old 11-26-2014, 04:00 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

I refuse to play with any band who wouldn't have a female singer singing Etta James "At last"-one of our favorites with a group I played in. It just wouldn't work. It is hard to believe some dude, my age, hasn't played with a female singer or instrumentalist-must of had little experience is all I can say. But "some" people will find fault with some aspect be it gender, ethnicity, age, ideology, or you suck at drums. LOL. It must be terribly self limiting in personal growth.
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Old 11-26-2014, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Maybe this guy has had similar issues in the past. And, despite equality and despite the fact that his view on women generally may not be palatable to us, it really is HIS choice if he wants to play in a band with a female in it.
I have absolutely no problem with someone wanting to be in an all male band, or all female for that matter. You should play with who you are comfortable. I just think most people would have said, I really prefer not to play in a band with a female...good luck. That I would have understood. But he was very adamant. "I CAN'T play in a band with a female in it", then practically hung up the phone on me. I do believe there was something deeper going on there. Just my opinion.

Personally, after having tried working in an all girl band as the drummer, I now prefer to work with guys. Too much estrogen in that room for me for sure...lol. However, I would never completely close that door if the right musician/vocalist came along that added to what we were doing and they happened to be female. I think a band really limits themselves to what they can do if they completely close the door on one or the other. But I do agree, it's your choice to play with whom you please.
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Old 11-26-2014, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Personally, after having tried working in an all girl band as the drummer, I now prefer to work with guys.
I think that mixed-sex bands are something a lot of us tried in our teens and 20's. They didn't work out because we were all idiots in our teens and 20's. Rather than blame ourselves for our past failures, we tend to blame others.

ie: It's the woman's fault that each male member of the band turned into an idiot.
reality: Each of the male members was an idiot regardless of whether or not a female was in the band.
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  #190  
Old 11-26-2014, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

personally i dont listen much to Led Zep or Scorps or Rush or any such band which has girly vocals...just a preference....(they are all brilliant bands with brilliant musicianship)..but i dont care about the sex of the musicians who play the backing instruments.....if the guitarist deploys his/her guitar in an almost painterly fashion, offering framework and texture rather than directive and chops...leaving the drummer (he or she) to lead the song......I am their fan for life.
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Old 11-26-2014, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Again, I fear your actively seeking things to be offended by (no offence !)

Jesus, I still walk around calling women "love". I don't love them, or want to bed them. I'm a Northerner, and it's how we are mostly. If someone's offended by it, sorry.
No offence taken, in the slightest, and I think it might be a good idea to differentiate between taking offence at something, and disliking it.

I dislike the use of the word "girl" because it has negative and patronising connotations. Therefore, I wish that people who haven't the slightest intention of being negative or patronising wouldn't use it. End of, really.

"Love" is definitely different. It may be patronising, though it isn't necessarily, and it's a nice word and I can't think of it as negative. Like "chicken".
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Old 11-26-2014, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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No offence taken, in the slightest, and I think it might be a good idea to differentiate between taking offence at something, and disliking it.

I dislike the use of the word "girl" because it has negative and patronising connotations. Therefore, I wish that people who haven't the slightest intention of being negative or patronising wouldn't use it. End of, really.

"Love" is definitely different. It may be patronising, though it isn't necessarily, and it's a nice word and I can't think of it as negative. Like "chicken".
This definitely shows the differences in locale. Calling anyone "love" in North Idaho would most certainly raise an eyebrow, and might get you punched in certain situations, lol.

However, nearly every woman I know enjoys girls' night out, girl time, etc. I can't think of a woman I know here who would be upset at the use of girl, or even gal, unless it was intended in a derogatory way.

As far as mixed gender bands, I've played in many. I've found it to be a wonderful experience in most cases. It's such an individual situation, though. Band relationships, like any close relationships, are so personality driven, there are no hard rules. I love having the versatility of male and female voices, especially in a cover band, and it's always been worth it to take the chance, in my mind.
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Old 11-26-2014, 06:47 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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A few months ago, we had put out an ad on Craigslist looking for a lead guitarist. I had one guy call me who was all anxious to audition until he found out I was the lead singer. Now, keep in mind, he had never heard me sing so it had nothing to do with my singing ability. His response was "I can't be in a band with a female." This wasn't some kid but a 60 year old man who had been playing for years. At least he let us know that before getting too involved but still... Really makes me wonder what experiences, life or band, that he had had that gave him that attitude.
Sometimes jealous wives or significant others can be the biggest obstacle to having a female in your band.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard a guy on the phone going "Yea, babe, we're just playing music, there's no girls here."

What I mean is it could have been more like "not allowed" than "can't".
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Old 11-26-2014, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Sometimes jealous wives or significant others can be the biggest obstacle to having a female in your band.
I've come across that so many times, I've lost count. Of course, it shouldn't be like that in a perfect world, but a perfect world doesn't exist.
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Old 11-26-2014, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

Has this anything to do with age? I have been in female fronted bands, and have a female guitarist in my main gig. She mostly gets attention because she is a lefty guitarist but thats about it. I want to be able to say us millennials are a tad more tolerant, but i just dont know.
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Old 11-26-2014, 08:53 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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personally i dont listen much to Led Zep or Scorps or Rush or any such band which has girly vocals...
Is that you, Arnold Schwarzenegger?
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Sometimes jealous wives or significant others can be the biggest obstacle to having a female in your band.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard a guy on the phone going "Yea, babe, we're just playing music, there's no girls here."

What I mean is it could have been more like "not allowed" than "can't".
An interesting perspective...but how sad is that if it's true?
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Sometimes jealous wives or significant others can be the biggest obstacle to having a female in your band.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard a guy on the phone going "Yea, babe, we're just playing music, there's no girls here."

What I mean is it could have been more like "not allowed" than "can't".
Gosh, that makes me feel so naive! Bless me!

Out of interest, have you found that jealous OHs generally have/have had good reason to be so?
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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Gosh, that makes me feel so naive! Bless me!

Out of interest, have you found that jealous OHs generally have/have had good reason to be so?
So... Is it sexist if a woman prevents a man from performing with another woman? Or does that fall under some entirely different ism?
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:22 PM
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Default Re: Possibly my first serious thread. Sexism.

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So... Is it sexist if a woman prevents a man from performing with another woman? Or does that fall under some entirely different ism?
Whichever way 'round you cast the roles, it's not an ism.

It's an idity or a tery.

Stupidity or fuckwittery
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