DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 08-15-2014, 05:23 AM
DsDrummer DsDrummer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 171
Default More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Hey Guys,

So I used to play a six piece drum kit with a lotta cymbals and so on and play pretty well or at least so I thought. But recently, just because I liked the positioning of where the ride lies, I switched my kit to a 4 piece. Anyways, since doing so I feel like my creativity level and groove has greatly improved. I thought this was rather weird. I mean, I'm not complaining cuz my ideas are better, but why is this and have others had similar experiences with shrinking down your kits? It makes me wonder how guys like Peart, Bozio, Mangini, and other big drum-set players would play if they cut down their kits.

Just thought this would be an interesting discussion if it doesn't already exist.

óDan
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-15-2014, 05:29 AM
Pocket-full-of-gold's Avatar
Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 11,360
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by DsDrummer View Post

Just thought this would be an interesting discussion if it doesn't already exist.
Oh it exists alright. I make it this would be about the 397,385,192nd thread we've had on this debate. Only trad grip versus matched grip and heel up vs heel down have had more air time.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:32 AM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,756
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Oh it exists alright. I make it this would be about the 397,385,192nd thread we've had on this debate. Only trad grip versus matched grip and heel up vs heel down have had more air time.
Now wait a minute here. This might be a fresh perspective on the subject. I mean, just because literally everyone knows that small kits are better than big kits doesn't mean other people can't be wrong and voice that wrong opinion.
__________________
"Overthinking is at the very core of our mission here." -Uncle Larry
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:35 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,873
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Now wait a minute here. This might be a fresh perspective on the subject. I mean, just because literally everyone knows that small kits are better than big kits doesn't mean other people can't be wrong and voice that wrong opinion.
Instigator!

...................................
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:56 AM
porter's Avatar
porter porter is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,447
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by DsDrummer View Post
It makes me wonder how guys like Peart, Bozio, Mangini, and other big drum-set players would play if they cut down their kits.
They'd play differently.

(FWIW Mangini did do half-ish of his latest DVD on a four-piece. Bozzio's style doesn't exactly translate well to a typical kit.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Oh it exists alright. I make it this would be about the 397,385,192nd thread we've had on this debate. Only trad grip versus matched grip and heel up vs heel down have had more air time.
But what Zildjian's's should I buy? I only have $3 and some mints PLEASE HELP!!!
__________________
Check out my Youtube channel!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-15-2014, 07:05 AM
Pocket-full-of-gold's Avatar
Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 11,360
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Now wait a minute here. This might be a fresh perspective on the subject. I mean, just because literally everyone knows that small kits are better than big kits doesn't mean other people can't be wrong and voice that wrong opinion.
For sure. Minimalism = creativity. Everyone knows that. It only took me 397,385,190 of those threads to be convinced of it. But small kits trump big kits. Banging away on a tin can with one stick trumps and snare drummer. And the drummer who plays on nothing is the most creative drummer of all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by porter View Post
But what Zildjian's's should I buy? I only have $3 and some mints PLEASE HELP!!!
That should get you some of Bo's beloved Pitch Blacks.......and change.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-15-2014, 07:21 AM
Starship Krupa's Avatar
Starship Krupa Starship Krupa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Alameda, CA USA
Posts: 154
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Only trad grip versus matched grip and heel up vs heel down have had more air time.
C'mon, what about "flash vs. groove?"
__________________
----
Erik
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-15-2014, 07:21 AM
Super Phil's Avatar
Super Phil Super Phil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 473
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Listen to Malignant Narcissism if you want to hear what Neil would do on a 4 piece.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-15-2014, 07:49 AM
keep it simple's Avatar
keep it simple keep it simple is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20,836
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

I currently play a smaller kit than Bo, but his avatar choice is still more creative than mine. Should I customise my bearing edges with an angle grinder? Please help!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-15-2014, 08:04 AM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 9,443
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

I'll save this thread the trouble:

Well, if you're more creative going from 6 drums to 4, imagine how much more creative you be if you went from 4 drums to one.

And then go from one to zero!

Plays grooves and fills with zero drums would of course be the most creative.


(and for the record, there are plenty of recordings of Peart and Mangini with small kits out there).
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-15-2014, 05:32 PM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,756
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Well, if you're more creative going from 6 drums to 4, imagine how much more creative you be if you went from 4 drums to one.
That's precisely what snare drummers do, you know. So even with the mocking tone, you're right. It's a big limitation compared to how many different voices even a small kit contains. Ever met a snare drummer who didn't know his rudiments and have amazing discipline that exceeds a typical kit drummers ability? I haven't.

Further proof that small kits rule, and big kits drool.
__________________
"Overthinking is at the very core of our mission here." -Uncle Larry
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-15-2014, 05:44 PM
GetAgrippa's Avatar
GetAgrippa GetAgrippa is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: U.S.
Posts: 3,206
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

It's the Drumming Bell curve. Every drummer starts with a smaller kit and few cymbals and then build or buy new larger kits with more cymbals and junk (bigger has got to be better), and then finally you peak (realize bigger isn't better or get tired dragging all that crap around) and move towards the smaller kits. Course I guess some folks Yo-Yo curve so dang there goes my Drumming Bell Curve book-it would have been a best seller. Gosh I could have been famous-and dedicated my book to Gil Gilbert. Almost famous. I have to admit I love the smaller kick drums.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-15-2014, 05:59 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 21,243
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Wailin Smash plays a big kit.

It's like dating a big girl, then dating a small girl. The small girl is a little easier to manipulate.

I like a medium kit. I prefer 3 toms. Anything less and I miss a tom. Anything more and it's too many choices for my simple mind. Kind of like the three little bears.
__________________
Levis/Hanes/Timberlands/Custom made socks
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:00 PM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,756
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Wailin Smash plays a big kit.

It's like dating a big girl, then dating a small girl. The small girl is a little easier to manipulate.
And easier to fit into the car at the end of the night.
__________________
"Overthinking is at the very core of our mission here." -Uncle Larry
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:04 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 21,243
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
And easier to fit into the car at the end of the night.
Especially when you let the air out you snoring hunk.
__________________
Levis/Hanes/Timberlands/Custom made socks
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:04 PM
BacteriumFendYoke's Avatar
BacteriumFendYoke BacteriumFendYoke is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Canterbury. The One With the Cathedral.
Posts: 6,372
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
And easier to fit into the body bag at the end of the night.
Fixed that for you. There you go.
__________________
PEWFLADCC
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:10 PM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,756
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
Fixed that for you. There you go.
I know we've already discussed this on DW. The 50 gallon drums are the way to go.
__________________
"Overthinking is at the very core of our mission here." -Uncle Larry
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:13 PM
BacteriumFendYoke's Avatar
BacteriumFendYoke BacteriumFendYoke is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Canterbury. The One With the Cathedral.
Posts: 6,372
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
I know we've already discussed this on DW. The 50 gallon drums are the way to go.
That entirely depends on how small they are.
__________________
PEWFLADCC
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:14 PM
mmulcahy1's Avatar
mmulcahy1 mmulcahy1 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
Posts: 2,043
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Oh it exists alright. I make it this would be about the 397,385,192nd thread we've had on this debate. Only trad grip versus matched grip and heel up vs heel down have had more air time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
For sure. Minimalism = creativity. Everyone knows that. It only took me 397,385,190 of those threads to be convinced of it. But small kits trump big kits. Banging away on a tin can with one stick trumps and snare drummer. And the drummer who plays on nothing is the most creative drummer of all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I currently play a smaller kit than Bo, but his avatar choice is still more creative than mine. Should I customise my bearing edges with an angle grinder? Please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
I'll save this thread the trouble:

Well, if you're more creative going from 6 drums to 4, imagine how much more creative you be if you went from 4 drums to one.

And then go from one to zero!

Plays grooves and fills with zero drums would of course be the most creative.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to have a conversation about something that has been discussed before - no matter how many times. If that were indeed the case, I would have told my wife's family to take a hike 25 years ago!! :-)

There are a lot of junior members (as well as old-timers) around here that know the mantra of "Use the SEARCH button!" But, while the found results are valid, sometimes they're old. It's not like this place is a textbook, for God's sake!! it's a living thing that takes on the personality of its users. Give people a break for wanting to have a "real time" discussion about something they want to know about. That's what DISCUSSION forums are about!

If you think it's an old and tired subject, then by all means, move on - there's nothing to see here. don't bust a person in the chops just because they want to talk about something they consider important enough to ask about but you find redundant.
__________________
Gretsch Catalina Maple Drums / Ludwig Supraphonic Snare Drum / Paiste Giant Beat & 2oo2 Cymbals
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:15 PM
Winegums's Avatar
Winegums Winegums is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 730
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

I have a 6 piece kit with 3 crashes, 1 ride, 2 sets of hats, 2 splashes and 1 china, never have I thought... "this stuff is lowering my creativity." If anything it's expanded my creativity with ever more options to blend together and hit differently. I use each cymbal and tom for a certain role and sound that I want to get out of them, and since we play idiophones there's simply no other way of getting the sound I want with out a larger kit.

I'll fully admit that I have a larger kit for playing metal and if I wasn't playing metal I could easily down size the kit to a 4 piece with hats,a ride and a crash, and be just as happy. Would I feel my creativity is limited on a smaller kit? No, it's the same level of creativity just focused on a smaller area. Your brain doesn't change suddenly when you change your kit size it only gives you less colours to paint your picture, no one says it still can't be a master piece.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:21 PM
Mike_L's Avatar
Mike_L Mike_L is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 83
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
That's precisely what snare drummers do, you know. So even with the mocking tone, you're right. It's a big limitation compared to how many different voices even a small kit contains. Ever met a snare drummer who didn't know his rudiments and have amazing discipline that exceeds a typical kit drummers ability? I haven't.

Further proof that small kits rule, and big kits drool.
If any of you haven't, I'd encourage you to watch DCI's I&E performances from any year. I&E stands for Individual and Ensemble and what it is is a day long competition between individual members of or smaller ensembles within a drum corps. It takes place at the end of the drum corps season during finals week. They do the same thing at PASIC, except it's not limited to corps members.

It's absolutely incredible what these guys do with just a snare drum.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:23 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 21,243
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Both views, small kit, big kit... make equally valid points, thankfully. More colors = more sonic possibilities. Less colors...I love black and white photos for example.

It's been proven that people are happier with less choices as opposed to more choices. There's not as much "wrong decision anxiety" going on.

Doesn't really apply to big kits, just saying. With drums, I have enough trouble getting around (and maintaining) 3 toms. I don't want more. But if I had to go bigger, I'd be OK with more cymbals.

Nice rant Mitch, I share that view as well, this place has new blood all the time so it's not a static thing. Information gets updated.

OMG here we go again lol.
__________________
Levis/Hanes/Timberlands/Custom made socks
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:49 PM
mmulcahy1's Avatar
mmulcahy1 mmulcahy1 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
Posts: 2,043
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
...But if I had to go bigger, I'd be OK with more cymbals.

Nice rant Mitch, I share that view as well, this place has new blood all the time so it's not a static thing. Information gets updated.
Thanks Larry. I do have my moments. ;-)

Definitely a +1 on the cymbals. You can never have too many cymbals!!

I wonder, what drummer plays with the largest number of cymbals at the same time?
__________________
Gretsch Catalina Maple Drums / Ludwig Supraphonic Snare Drum / Paiste Giant Beat & 2oo2 Cymbals
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-15-2014, 06:51 PM
keep it simple's Avatar
keep it simple keep it simple is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20,836
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
don't bust a person in the chops just because they want to talk about something they consider important enough to ask about but you find redundant.
Fair point, I'll remove my angle grinder comment ;)

Quite seriously though, I put up a related thread last week. I played a gig I'd normally do on a 6 piece, but used a 4 piece kit, & posted a video example of me playing "Jump" as an example. The move to 4 piece was not universally well received, even though I apparently "got away with it". There's appropriate choices for each gig, & if more voices are called for, then they just are. It's not a right or wrong situation.

In that gig, the only increase in creativity I noted was the extra effort I had to expend to condense parts designed for more toms. If that's an increase in creativity per-se, then so be it. Personally, I don't think it was worth the effort. Much easier to go default for the appropriate setup for the gig IMHO.

Video clip for those interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rACy...ature=youtu.be
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-15-2014, 07:09 PM
Winegums's Avatar
Winegums Winegums is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 730
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
Thanks Larry. I do have my moments. ;-)

Definitely a +1 on the cymbals. You can never have too many cymbals!!

I wonder, what drummer plays with the largest number of cymbals at the same time?
Portnoy, Bozzio, Thomas Lang? Progressive drumers always have lots of bronze.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-15-2014, 07:38 PM
Hollywood Jim's Avatar
Hollywood Jim Hollywood Jim is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 3,925
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

I can't remember having posted a comment on a thread regarding kit size.
So I guess this makes this thread new and exciting for me.

I have two toms on the rack and one on the floor. One ride and two crash cymbals.
I use the biggest drum set that I can afford to buy, that I can fit into my truck, that I can physically move around, and that will fit on the stage. (I don't want to piss off the guitar players)

If I were touring with a band and I had roadies and drum techs helping me, and large stages, I would have a HUGE drum set.

More stuff to hit = more fun = more creativity.

.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-15-2014, 07:56 PM
alparrott's Avatar
alparrott alparrott is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wenatchee, WA
Posts: 6,626
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

I don't feel that the size of the kit makes me any more or less creative either way. What it does do is change my approach to playing. I tend to sit at my large kit for more proggy, bombastic, chops-oriented playing, while my four-piece is more for grooving and a fat, chunky feel. They sound and feel very different to each other and so they allow me to capture different facets of my playing. The playing, however, is all me and I tend to sound like me no matter which kit I'm sitting at. It's just at one kit I have more different sounds at my disposal.

Is an artist drawing in black and white with a pencil any less creative than someone using Adobe Illustrator and all the colors of the rainbow? I think not. The product is just different, is all.
__________________
Al Parrott
"Jus suum cuique"
-------------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-15-2014, 09:15 PM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 9,443
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
That's precisely what snare drummers do, you know. So even with the mocking tone, you're right. It's a big limitation compared to how many different voices even a small kit contains. Ever met a snare drummer who didn't know his rudiments and have amazing discipline that exceeds a typical kit drummers ability? I haven't.
Nah, all they do is play the same rudiments everyone else uses. [/sarcasm]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/creative
Quote:
: having or showing an ability to make new things or think of new ideas

: using the ability to make or think of new things : involving the process by which new ideas, stories, etc., are created
One could argue better execution does not necessarily equate better creativity.

Playing the entire Wilcoxon book requires great skill and discipline. But is reading notes off a page truly creative?

One could also argue that very few drummers every play anything that hasn't previously been played by someone else 1001 times.

A drummer in cover band, a drummer hired to back an established artist, a drummer hired to read a studio chart, a classical drummer reading an established written out part, or even just the drummer making cover videos in their basement, are all spitting out pre-conceived ideas. Is that really being "creative"?

Even in an original band, most of the time, a drummer is playing "for the song" and generally, for a song someone else wrote.

And thus, one could argue that someone could be an amazing and awesome drummer and not actually be the dictionary definition of creative.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-15-2014, 09:39 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 21,243
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

If the song requires a money beat, but instead, the drummer is playing displaced stuff and not settling into any straight ahead rhythm....let's just say there's good creative and bad creative. Being creative alone doesn't guarantee s&^t. But everyone has their version of what's good creative and what's bad creative. So it's useless to try and define what it should or shouldn't be, except inside one's own mind.

An earlier thread posed the question if drumming is art or craftsmanship. I went with craftsmanship. Everything I've ever played has been done before. I'm not creating art. Hopefully what I do is interesting, engaging, entertaining and pleasant to listen to. I'll settle for that! You could argue that every word or idea that Shakespeare wrote had been used before too. It doesn't matter. It's all about how you arrange and execute it right now.

Seriously, creativity....I don't try to be creative on purpose at all. I try and play what the song is screaming for. It's almost the opposite of creativity. It's more like satisfying a need.
__________________
Levis/Hanes/Timberlands/Custom made socks
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 08-15-2014, 09:52 PM
Winegums's Avatar
Winegums Winegums is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 730
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Nah, all they do is play the same rudiments everyone else uses. [/sarcasm]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/creative


One could argue better execution does not necessarily equate better creativity.

Playing the entire Wilcoxon book requires great skill and discipline. But is reading notes off a page truly creative?

One could also argue that very few drummers every play anything that hasn't previously been played by someone else 1001 times.

A drummer in cover band, a drummer hired to back an established artist, a drummer hired to read a studio chart, a classical drummer reading an established written out part, or even just the drummer making cover videos in their basement, are all spitting out pre-conceived ideas. Is that really being "creative"?

Even in an original band, most of the time, a drummer is playing "for the song" and generally, for a song someone else wrote.

And thus, one could argue that someone could be an amazing and awesome drummer and not actually be the dictionary definition of creative.
I think a good snare drummer, much like a symphony musician might have good discipline but not creativity. The same goes for playing a cover or a written piece of music, you're disciplined and know how to do a lot of things but it's not creative.

I really disagree with your statement about original bands, when I play in my band it's 100% the drum track I wrote and came up with along side the guitar/bass tracks being written. I would feel like a robot or that I wasn't a band member if I didn't have a chance to create my part to the music. It's even happened to me where my guitarist who also plays drums wrote a drum track and I agreed that it fit but I could never enjoy playing the song. I never let someone take away my creative element when writing original music or I'll just leave the band. I'd be wasting my time and you mind as well buy a drum machine.

Last edited by Winegums; 08-15-2014 at 10:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 08-15-2014, 10:06 PM
keep it simple's Avatar
keep it simple keep it simple is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20,836
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

After reading this thread, I decided to shave my padauk kit down a bit ;)
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-15-2014, 10:09 PM
Winegums's Avatar
Winegums Winegums is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 730
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
After reading this thread, I decided to shave my padauk kit down a bit ;)
It'll let you be more creative!
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-15-2014, 11:21 PM
wildbill's Avatar
wildbill wildbill is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Midwest - USA
Posts: 6,985
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

I have the exactly correct number of drums and cymbals to maximize my creativity.

How about you guys?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-15-2014, 11:25 PM
MikeM's Avatar
MikeM MikeM is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,438
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
An earlier thread posed the question if drumming is art or craftsmanship. I went with craftsmanship. Everything I've ever played has been done before. I'm not creating art. Hopefully what I do is interesting, engaging, entertaining and pleasant to listen to. I'll settle for that! You could argue that every word or idea that Shakespeare wrote had been used before too. It doesn't matter. It's all about how you arrange and execute it right now.

Seriously, creativity....I don't try to be creative on purpose at all. I try and play what the song is screaming for. It's almost the opposite of creativity. It's more like satisfying a need.
Funny how I'm disagreeing with you here again, Larry, but not to worry - I just think you should give yourself more credit :)

I think it's really hard not to be some measure of both art and craft, but probably should qualify that with what I think each means. As I see it, the craft is how well you use the tools at your disposal (with both gear selection and playing ability); and the art of it is what you choose to play or not play as a reflection of your aesthetic and artistic sense.

I think you use both in spades, Larry. From taking great care with your gear selections, tunings and timing issues, to making sure you're forever being appropriate and sensitive to the the music and the other players. Quite possible for a high-caliber craftsman to come in and blast-beat the shit outta yer blooz gig! The art component is definitely part of your vibe.

Why is that an either / or again? ha ha :)

To the OP, if you couldn't tell by now, this is one of those unresolvable hot button issues. Everyone's got their own take on it but there are two central themes that keep coming up, and I totally agree with both of them! Is that even possible? But for me, I can totally see how my thought processes get more streamlined on a smaller kit. I recently went down to a 4-piece from a 5 - one up, one down (13/18) from the old one up two down (13/15/18), and it's nice because I don't have to think as much about what I'm doing and most of my tom playing only used the rack and first floor anyway. Not having my kit stretch so far to the right also allowed me to get rid of that crash above the 2nd floor - so now I'm using a ride, 2 crashes, hats, and an EFX.

Know what the driver was for my kit reduction? A 5-string bass player! Man, I don't know what it is, but I see a bass with more than 4 strings and all these red flags start going up! So I totally get the nervousness many musos feel when they see a drummer show up with a lot of drums and cymbals. There's a place for 5-string basses but a stripped down rock ensemble isn't one of them, IMO. Fusion, metal, or prog band, maybe, but not anything that derives from the simpler and seedy underbelly of rock.

Now if dude walks in with a well-worn 4-string P-Bass and an ratty Ampeg SVT rig, I'm instinctively breathing a sigh of relief knowing there isn't going to be a bunch of Victor Wooten busy slapping and popping going on. (No disrespect to VW - wizardly player still rooted in the deepest of grooves). Just sayin'
__________________
My kit: It's not just good, it's good enough.

My Band

Last edited by MikeM; 08-15-2014 at 11:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-15-2014, 11:59 PM
Winegums's Avatar
Winegums Winegums is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 730
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Know what the driver was for my kit reduction? A 5-string bass player! Man, I don't know what it is, but I see a bass with more than 4 strings and all these red flags start going up! So I totally get the nervousness many musos feel when they see a drummer show up with a lot of drums and cymbals. There's a place for 5-string basses but a stripped down rock ensemble isn't one of them, IMO. Fusion, metal, or prog band, maybe, but not anything that derives from the simpler and seedy underbelly of rock.

Now if dude walks in with a well-worn 4-string P-Bass and an ratty Ampeg SVT rig, I'm instinctively breathing a sigh of relief knowing there isn't going to be a bunch of Victor Wooten busy slapping and popping going on. (No disrespect to VW - wizardly player still rooted in the deepest of grooves). Just sayin'
I find this hilarious... it's like saying "they've got a double kick pedal they're not going to play what music calls for". I'd toss your assumptions aside about the number of strings on a bass and wait till they play. I've played with 4 string and 5 string players that could walk all day and IMO the 5 string always sounded better since the player has some lower notes available. Just because someones instrument is different from what you think they should have doesn't mean they aren't going to play what's tasteful or needed.

I used to play with an old construction contractor that plays a 5 string ibanez and he's by far one of the most tasteful and talented players I've ever seen at playing rock, blues, classic rock and jazz. His comments on a 5 string vs 4 string bass were some where along the lines of, "It opened up a whole new dimension to my playing and I don't think I'll ever go back to playing 4 string. There's things I just can't do on a 4 string." So sometimes more things to play means more room for creativity.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-16-2014, 12:13 AM
_Leviathan_ _Leviathan_ is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 177
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

I've been using a 4 piece kit with just 3 or 4 cymbals for years. But in the past I used to play on another drummer's kit all the time at a shared practice space which had hats, ride, crash, china, and a 3 rack, 6 piece kit with a double pedal. I used to switch up my kit from a 5 piece to a 4 piece, and add/take away cymbals.

Changing from a 4 piece to a 5 or 6 piece doesn't necessarily make my playing any more creative, just different. While with a 4 piece I may be more snare/bass/hats oriented with some quick, jazzy, unobtrusive fills in between the groove, on a 5 or 6 piece I will be more tom oriented and probably play more descending fills and parts involving toms because they are there. So adding stuff gives me more tonal colors to play with, but in terms of using those colors to the end of being more creative behind the drumset? Not really from my experience IMO.

I think there's a lower limit on kit size too. It took me a long time to play a four piece well enough so I don't miss more toms when they aren't there, and actually become very comfortable with the style, ergonomics, and aesthetics of a kit that size. I don't feel limited on a single bass, four piece, 3/4 cymbal setup, but I've tried a 3 piece without a rack tom, and though it makes your playing very groove oriented (where is there to go??) I feel very limited by the three piece, and probably will always feel limited on a kit that size.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08-16-2014, 12:24 AM
Nancy_C's Avatar
Nancy_C Nancy_C is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Oahu, Hawaii, USA
Posts: 245
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
I'll save this thread the trouble:

Well, if you're more creative going from 6 drums to 4, imagine how much more creative you be if you went from 4 drums to one.

And then go from one to zero!
Sounds like you believe in extremes. So I guess you drive 500 mph on the freeway, then? I mean, if 25 mph is too slow and 70 mph is pretty good, then why not 100 mph or 200 mph or 500 mph? You can't possibly be happy at 70 mph! Why stop there?

For me, 25 mph is too slow, and 500 mph is too fast. So I go 60-90 mph. Same principle might apply to drum kits, where a certain number is too few and a certain number is too many, without going to extremes.

But maybe that's just me.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08-16-2014, 12:27 AM
MikeM's Avatar
MikeM MikeM is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,438
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winegums View Post
I find this hilarious...
Ha, yeah I get what you're saying, and my rational side says the same thing, but there's another part of me that thinks there's likely to be more emphasis on playing from the fingers than playing from the ears. This is only based on my experience, and for sure doesn't apply in all cases.

Another thing I notice as it relates to drums, is no matter how many toms are being used, by and large the sticking patterns don't change an awful lot, so while there may be more colors to choose from, it's just the same patterns spread out over more drums. Neil Peart's big hero roundhouse fills are still based on the same stickings he uses for shorter fills on fewer toms.

I used to have a 6-tom double-bass setup and a 2up 2dn single kick setup and noticed that I was pretty much playing the same patterns as I did on smaller kits, only I was having to think more about which tom I was going to start from and was tending toward longer fills. That was too distracting for my comfort level.
__________________
My kit: It's not just good, it's good enough.

My Band
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-16-2014, 12:28 AM
Hollywood Jim's Avatar
Hollywood Jim Hollywood Jim is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 3,925
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Gee, now I feel dumb for mentioning the word "fun" in regards to kit size.

.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 08-16-2014, 12:45 AM
Winegums's Avatar
Winegums Winegums is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 730
Default Re: More Creative on a Smaller Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Ha, yeah I get what you're saying, and my rational side says the same thing, but there's another part of me that thinks there's likely to be more emphasis on playing from the fingers than playing from the ears. This is only based on my experience, and for sure doesn't apply in all cases.

Another thing I notice as it relates to drums, is no matter how many toms are being used, by and large the sticking patterns don't change an awful lot, so while there may be more colors to choose from, it's just the same patterns spread out over more drums. Neil Peart's big hero roundhouse fills are still based on the same stickings he uses for shorter fills on fewer toms.

I used to have a 6-tom double-bass setup and a 2up 2dn single kick setup and noticed that I was pretty much playing the same patterns as I did on smaller kits, only I was having to think more about which tom I was going to start from and was tending toward longer fills. That was too distracting for my comfort level.
I totally get what you mean it's all the same, I treat my 6 piece a lot like the 5 piece I started on to avoid those awkward sticking problems. I'll play a fill on 3 toms excluding one tom from the group depending on the situation. I also use the 10" and 12" toms as accents quite often and my 16" floor has it's place for builds where my 14" doesn't have the beefy bottom end.

I think more drums gives a wider range of tuning freedom and with a smaller 4 piece you're asking one drum to do the role of many so the tuning range you can have is limited. I'm picky and I like to have the exact sound I'm looking for in each part of my playing.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com