What percentage do you practice bread and butter?

MattA

Senior Member
As drummers, I'm sure most will agree that single and double strokes are our bread and butter. They are the fabric we use to weave magic on the drums. So as basic and essential these two things are, what would you say is the percentage of time you spend practicing them? I know sometimes we tend to practice them more at certain times than others, but I'm talking about your overall practice regime. Is it something you go through often as a quick warm up only? Or do you designate a significant portion of practice time to them? I'm curious and am trying to find the right balance myself.
 
I like to dedicate 15 to 20 mins of a practice to just pad work.
I like to warm up on the pad before I sit at the kit.
 
They should make up the bulk of anyones practice time however you find (or are forced too) ways to incorporate them into other areas once you go into more advanced rudiments, for instance doing flam taps is also doing doubles, ect...

There was a guy on these forums who once said something to the effect of that singles and doubles were so important to the point that anyone who had proficient singles and doubles could easily do anything else with little effort because the entire spectrum of drumming is at it's base built on single and double strokes...
 
Any pad time I have is dedicated to singles and more recently, doubles. My weak hand is nipping at the heels of my strong hand in terms of being able to play what I can with my strong hand, after practicing mainly singles on a pad (my steering wheel) since early 2004. OMG that's almost 8 years. TBH, it averages out to only maybe 3 or 4 hours a week on the pad, but still, it has taken me quite a while to get (almost) equally capable hands. I've started doubles recently because my left hand doesn't feel nearly as retarded anymore.

Any time I'm on the set, I usually practice soloing, groove ideas, but sometimes I'll go marathon singles because singles on a snare drum and singles on a pad feel/sound different. But I attribute the improvement in my hands to my pad time.
 
Bread and butter is also laying down a solid groove, which starts with solid bass drum playing, thats one area many people neglect for a long time. Rudiments are important but i have seen guys with blazing singles and doubles more than once who cant lay it down.

I would say i devote at least half my time to my hands, mostly singles, doubles and paraddildes.
 
Recently I've devoted a lot of time to singles on the pad to try and get them smoother and faster. The main reason I want to go faster is to keep up with one of the bands I'm in, so it's not just for the sake of it, and I'm slower than average I think.

Basically once it gets too late to practise on the kit at night, I'll sit in front of the tv for an hour or 2 before bed purely practising singles (soon to be adding doubles to that too). I try and practise both French and German grip because I find they feel very different.
 
I'm starting to think of my drum practice more like a training session rather than 'practice'. The basic approach is 16th note singles on my feet with different sticking combinations on the hands. Starting with singles, then opposite singles (so feet are doing RLRL and hands LRLR), single, double, triple paradiddles with a shifting accent (Rrll, rLrr, rlRr, rlrR, one bar each), alternating flams at 8th notes, and anything out of stick control. This is something my teacher suggested I try as a method of unifying all of my limbs to lock in together. My goal at the moment is about solidifying and tightening up what I can already do, rather than learning too much new stuff.

I do at least 5 minutes of work on singles alone to keep my speed up and continue to improve my weak hand. I'm also doing a page of basic rock beats to a click, each one for three minutes a day, it's working wonders with my note placement and consistency.

I can fit this routine into half an hour but could make it last as long as I want. It's all bread-and-butter, and is the basis of what I play 95% of the time.
 
Bread and butter is also laying down a solid groove, which starts with solid bass drum playing, thats one area many people neglect for a long time. Rudiments are important but i have seen guys with blazing singles and doubles more than once who cant lay it down.

I would say i devote at least half my time to my hands, mostly singles, doubles and paraddildes.

How does that same bass drum concentration apply directly to jazz grooving where it is a much different animal entirely?

There is also no rudiments are important but disclaimer. You learn singles and doubles as well as possible or your playing is flawed forever...simple as that.

And yeah I've also heard that lack of groove problem with a clique of blazing singles/doubles guys who spend too much time in the orchestra or the marching field. But I have yet to hear a set intensive player suffer a groove problem who was serious about mastering both. In fact it has been my experience to find the singles/doubles rudiment guy laying it down FAR deeper than those who mistakedly marginilize rudiments in pursuit of a groove that more often than not is just a big mess parading as something else.

With that said...I'm not slamming you or anyone else because I've heard this perspective from more than a few. I'm just arguing that it's largely incorrect, and may actually keep drummers from working on stuff they need to be working on.
 
I practice doubles quite a bit more than singles, I have to admit. It seems like most people lean towards one or the other, depending upon style.
 
In fact it has been my experience to find the singles/doubles rudiment guy laying it down FAR deeper than those who mistakedly marginilize rudiments in pursuit of a groove that more often than not is just a big mess parading as something else.

Yeah spot on. I feel it so much easier to groove well after I've spent at least 20 mins on singles/doubles. I don't only mean singles/doubles with hands either. If you spend time going through a similar rudimental regime with your feet as well and then play time ... wow! After playing for quite a few years, it's only been in the more recent period that I've truly grasped how essential it is. I mean it makes sense with most things that require technique that perfecting basics as well as you can will let the rest flow from there. Convincing a teenager who only wants to bash out solos everytime he sits at the kit is a different story. I wish it hadn't taken me so long to see the light so to speak. Better late then never though and I'm loving the direction my playing is going in now. I've never had an issue with creativity or flare, now my technique and groove are finally catching up!
 
Matt's spot on. I will admit a mistaken belief a few years ago when I was learning to play. I didn't focus on the basics enough and now I'm struggling to catch up with musical ideas. It's fair to say that my brain has severely overtaken my limbs and that's fine for now but I know that if I expand my vocabulary I will have more and better ideas about what to play through experience of technique.

A depth of technique means a depth of musical vocabulary. Technique is a means to an end, but the end is made more visible with the knowledge of technique. Mastering the basics is utterly essential in this and that's why it's important that you practice at least singles and doubles. Singles and doubles are the building blocks of all the other rudiments and they are certainly where you should be starting.

If you want to play at your very best, you should be playing below your maximum ability in any gig situation. It's the old sports adage of training harder than the game and it rings true musically as well but as is also true in sport you must never lose sight of the basics.
 
Not only do I wholeheartedly agree with Matt & Co but there's one more "basic" that's tremendously overlooked: Reading.

Truth is, most of those cool beats and rhythms that you "created" can probably be found in Louise Bellsons Reading books or in Syncopation. I have found those drummers that can read at least decently have a much greater depth of vocabulary than those who can't. It especially shows up in syncopated triplet figures over the barline. Most guys who haven't read those type of figures and actually counted them out just end up doing a vague approximation of the actual phrase.

Yeah, there are always exceptions but that exception is probably not you or I.
 
There is also no rudiments are important but disclaimer. You learn singles and doubles as well as possible or your playing is flawed forever...simple as that.

Yup. Bricks and mortar.

Yopps said:
They should make up the bulk of anyones practice time

In the beginning, we all need to spend a great proportion of our practice time getting our fundamentals together. As time goes on, it's more about maintenance - at least for me - and I don't spend the majority of my time working on that stuff any longer. But, you're right that you're using them all the time in any of the more complex combinations. That said, I think there is value in trying to see past the individual components of longer/more complex strings of singles and doubles and trying to play them as single sounds/impulses of their own. Like when learning to speak words, we tend not to think of the prefixes, suffixes and so on as separate pieces, we simply say the word as one fluid sound.

For example, a paradiddle-diddle is 'phonetically' two singles and two sets of doubles. But, in order to get them to really flow and to have the work musically, I think it's important to be thinking in six note lengths rather than as individual pieces. A paradiddle is one impulse of hands/feet, not three separate groups of singles and doubles. Of course, to do that, you have to have your singles and doubles down, as Matt pointed out.
 
Not only do I wholeheartedly agree with Matt & Co but there's one more "basic" that's tremendously overlooked: Reading.

Truth is, most of those cool beats and rhythms that you "created" can probably be found in Louise Bellsons Reading books or in Syncopation. I have found those drummers that can read at least decently have a much greater depth of vocabulary than those who can't. It especially shows up in syncopated triplet figures over the barline. Most guys who haven't read those type of figures and actually counted them out just end up doing a vague approximation of the actual phrase.

Yeah, there are always exceptions but that exception is probably not you or I.

Great point, Jeff, and one I make clear to everyone who comes through my studio door. I think you're right about having spent the time reading and counting things out being the gateway to playing more complex rhythmic figures. I think part of this is because it engages another part of the brain - i.e. the visual cortices - in learning and recalling the information. I sometimes "see" the rhythm I'm about to play in notation in my minds' eye.

The real hurdle is to get the visual thing linked up with the auditory thing, so that when you read notation you can "hear" it simultaneously. That's where all the counting/singing/etc. comes into play. Have you checked out Dicenso's "Universal Rhythms" yet? Deep as...
 
How does that same bass drum concentration apply directly to jazz grooving where it is a much different animal entirely?

There is also no rudiments are important but disclaimer. You learn singles and doubles as well as possible or your playing is flawed forever...simple as that.

And yeah I've also heard that lack of groove problem with a clique of blazing singles/doubles guys who spend too much time in the orchestra or the marching field. But I have yet to hear a set intensive player suffer a groove problem who was serious about mastering both. In fact it has been my experience to find the singles/doubles rudiment guy laying it down FAR deeper than those who mistakedly marginilize rudiments in pursuit of a groove that more often than not is just a big mess parading as something else.

With that said...I'm not slamming you or anyone else because I've heard this perspective from more than a few. I'm just arguing that it's largely incorrect, and may actually keep drummers from working on stuff they need to be working on.

I see your point tottally, to be honest thats kinda what i meant. Do you think i should spend more time on my hands matt?
 
I see your point tottally, to be honest thats kinda what i meant. Do you think i should spend more time on my hands matt?

Thanks Sam. I appreciate it.

Answering your question...I'm still a child experience wise. There are guys on this forum with far more mileage than me. But within my limited experience and understanding I would answer yes.

In fact my own case feels like a reference point. I know many here remember the crap I used to take from the either/or crowd who would see me winning speed drumming comps while still demonstrating a groove that for a better description was a work in progress. But I was lucky to have good mentors who told me to stick to what I was doing and the groove eventually would get there. So lo and behold what turns out to be my gateway gig?...a freaking deep groove blues TV show (of all things) seen by millions of people. I couldn't have scripted that one.

Then look at Tom Grosset who for my money might be the greatest single stroker on the planet...I will probably get heat for this but I firmly believe that Tim Jackson and the other drum corps overlords could only wish to have mastery of a single like Tom. Well...I think we all recall that people were once saying the same thing about him...all speed no groove etc, etc...Now look at how his playing is coming out so beautifully. And while that's happening look how he's started to corner that whole Vadrum/Cobus thing. Yeah, he has a very clever presentation. But what's separating his uber covers from the others is a deeply implied groove his competitors can't approach.

Art Verdi may be best known as the wild middle aged guy who plays singles intensive speed drums in his youtube basement. But who is he shlepping around with on the weekends?...Phil Woods. Any of us jazz guys believe Woods doesn't insist on a groove demon?

Jotan Afanador has one of the greatest singles ever heard and because of that is discounted enough to be way too far off the radar. Why do I say that? Well, in the past two years his Latin groove bands have been on the Super Bowl while he's sold out Madison Square Garden three times.

Then there's the greatest singles/doubles drum kit technician of them all...Mangini. Well...who got the DT gig?

Incidentally, everyone mentioned here have been responsible for logging the 5 fastest singles scores in straight up competition.

That's the living proof...and that's why you work on bread and butter until that best juicy steak shows up on your grill.
 
I do think that groove and technical facility are linked. I don't think someone with serious technical flaws is likely to be able to really lay down a nice groove. I don't think you need to have spectacular chops to pull it off, but I think a lot of groove and timekeeping problems can be traced back to technique issues.

As for me, I spend much more time practicing on the pad than on the set. A lot of that has to do with me being an apartment dweller. I used to practice on those Sound Off things but I just don't feel there's much left for me in that area. My time on the set is more about dealing with the feel of the real instrument, like consistent rim shots and the feel of the beater on the bass drum head. Playing with mesh heads or silencer pads just isn't the same.

But I absolutely think you have to spend focused time on grooving. Developing chops alone won't get you there. It's an art unto itself. The note placement, physical movements and internal dynamics that give music a good feel only come with practice.
 
I'm still pretty much a beginner so singles, in some form or another, are just about all I practice, even without trying. Accent patterns (like on the last page of Syncopation), rock beats w/ 16ths on the hats (mainly to get the LH/RF coordination down), etc.

Doubles have to be practiced more... on purpose. So it's not quite as much as singles, but it's still a lot.
 
As Hal Galper says of musicians, "We are athletes of the small muscles"

I couldn't agree more. Nothing evens out your playing better than the single and double stroke. Getting that weak hand up to speed with the strong hand is a mountain every drummer has to scale.
 
How does that same bass drum concentration apply directly to jazz grooving where it is a much different animal entirely?

There is also no rudiments are important but disclaimer. You learn singles and doubles as well as possible or your playing is flawed forever...simple as that.

And yeah I've also heard that lack of groove problem with a clique of blazing singles/doubles guys who spend too much time in the orchestra or the marching field. But I have yet to hear a set intensive player suffer a groove problem who was serious about mastering both. In fact it has been my experience to find the singles/doubles rudiment guy laying it down FAR deeper than those who mistakedly marginilize rudiments in pursuit of a groove that more often than not is just a big mess parading as something else.

With that said...I'm not slamming you or anyone else because I've heard this perspective from more than a few. I'm just arguing that it's largely incorrect, and may actually keep drummers from working on stuff they need to be working on.

I guess from what I have seen/heard I have noticed some players who have blazing singles/doubles who can't "lay it down"....however only when they are marching first or rarely playing set as you said.

I can't remember ever seeing anyone who was truly a set player first type player who also had blazing chops who also could not "lay it down"....never once.

I really think that you more you fine tune every aspect the more sensitive and ulitmately "better" your playing is going to be behind the kit.
 
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