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  #1  
Old 04-03-2018, 03:09 PM
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Default Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

I'm a Neil Peart fan, however, I was a little dismayed at the comments concerning Ringo in this older article.

https://www.musicradar.com/news/guit...m-solos-458100

I know Neil, along with many others, are not Ringo guys. That's fine. Ringo is the first one to tell you he is not technically brilliant.

I realize Neil says he is joking. I just find it a bit out of character for him to go "there" about other drummers.

Neil's drumming fits perfectly for Rush music. However, i always felt Neil lacked "feel" and "swing". When you watch the Sabian videos that have Neil, Weckl and others together, you can see a big gap between Neil and the others when improvising. Neil always falls back on the One Little Victory intro or some basic rock beat that a 6 year old can play. Where Bozzio, Weckl can come up with great, catchy little beats that are technical and have feel.

Phil Collins, Bruford have a certain feel within the scope of their progressive rock days.

Ringo (and Paul when drumming) has a certain feel that fits perfectly for what the Beatles did. How would Neil do Ticket to Ride? Some stiff sounding odd time with cowbells and trigger jackhammers?
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Old 04-03-2018, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

I read the part of the interview in which Peart refers to Ringo.

I didn't really get the impression that he was making a slight on Ringo's playing.

On the contrary, he states that Ringo isn't into drum solos and that perhaps for this reason the mini-solo on The End isn't particularly noteworthy.

This doesn't mean that Peart considers all the rest of Ringo's playing as poor.

I would think that Peart might in fact appreciate Ringo's approach given that he prefers the energy of Wipe Out to the leaden pounding of In-A-Gadda-Da-Vidda. And Ringo's playing is what I would call "vibrant" and fits more into the former category than the latter one.

Edit: Finally I get to post a 1st reply! And I get the added satisfaction of beating GD to post in a Ringo related thread! (how did I do, Governor?)
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

I never considered Neil to be about feel or swing.
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:29 PM
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Apples and oranges.

....
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Old 04-03-2018, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

Most drummers Pearts age, 50+, grew up listening to blues, soul, R&B, ETC, but Neil skipped that and went right into rock music. Good break for him, he made his fortune that way.

You can hear it in his playing, its very "matter of fact" up front style. Not my liking, but he is very good at what he does.
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  #6  
Old 04-03-2018, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

Oh, another let's bash Neil thread.

I mean, we can't go a more than a few months without someone bashing Neil Peart.

I'm not sure why some people get so much joy out of posting anti-Neil threads.
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Oh, another let's bash Neil thread.

I mean, we can't go a more than a few months without someone bashing Neil Peart.

I'm not sure why some people get so much joy out of posting anti-Neil threads.
I think what's happening here is Neil tries to break out of his rock role by doing projects that are out of his wheelhouse (Burning for Buddy, the Sabian product reviews et. al.) and struggles with it.
So we as drummers who probably have studied many styles, pounce on him for doing what he clearly can't.

I love Rush. always have and Neil has helped me with a lot of rock drumming needs. But I look elsewhere when I need instruction that's more on the technical side.
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  #8  
Old 04-03-2018, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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I think what's happening here is Neil tries to break out of his rock role by doing projects that are out of his wheelhouse (Burning for Buddy, the Sabian product reviews et. al.) and struggles with it.
So we as drummers who probably have studied many styles, pounce on him for doing what he clearly can't.

I love Rush. always have and Neil has helped me with a lot of rock drumming needs. But I look elsewhere when I need instruction that's more on the technical side.
I agree. Probably one of the best rock drummers ever. I do give Neil credit. He did take lessons to help adjust for his struggles. The one album I feel Neil shows lots of feel and personality is Presto. Neil does not sound stiff and robotic.
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  #9  
Old 04-03-2018, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

I think what can get labelled as "robotic," Neil would describe as perfectly nailing the part in time. Very few drummers can nail his parts as he did. He's the king of playing straight ahead, all the chops, progressive rock music. He dedicated his life to that end. He wasn't interested in Jazz and the whole whole "swing" feel eluded him. When one dedicates their life work to one aspect, of course other aspects will get left in the wind. Neil was a huge part of my musical upbringing. He's simply amazing and among the best at what he does.
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  #10  
Old 04-03-2018, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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He's the king of playing straight ahead, all the chops, progressive rock music.
In your opinion.

Especially in this day/age, there's tons of prog drummers doing things crazy enough to melt faces.
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  #11  
Old 04-03-2018, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

Good point....one of the kings. Im more referring to the time period they were doing their thing.
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  #12  
Old 04-03-2018, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

I think he was to Rush what Ringo was to the Beatles. Not the best, but the best for their bands. I think it goes without saying that the Beatles catalogue is a bit more diverse, not better, just more diverse, therefore Ringo had to learn and play more than one style. MHO
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  #13  
Old 04-03-2018, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

Who would have been better at that time? Billy Cobham? Vinnie? Lot of drumming going on and when you watch Rush tribute gigs on youtube, where top drummers do his tunes, they dont usually nail it....some do pretty well tho. i remember watching one with Ray Luzier that I thought was pretty awesome. Also I think he led the way partially for the modern prog rock face melters.
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  #14  
Old 04-03-2018, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

Neil was a huge influence for me starting out as a kid. I've since realized he has his limitations, but so what? I still love his drumming for Rush today. Youngsters may have surpassed him in raw blazing technique, but I've yet to hear his combination of impressive technique and memorable parts, along with accessible music. None of Rush's songs would be the same without his unique drum parts that had complexity for the drum nerds while still being catchy and cool at a basic level.

Bruford was roughly a contemporary of Peart in the same basic genre, and I personally find Bruford's technique more impressive, but the music never really stuck with me that same way as Rush. There's a lot that goes into that, but writing great drum parts is part of it for sure.
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  #15  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:18 AM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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Originally Posted by J-Boogie View Post
I think what can get labelled as "robotic," Neil would describe as perfectly nailing the part in time. .
On this note,

There are hundreds (perhaps thousands) of bands out there that play the same songs the same way every night, every tour. Often to click tracks.

There are singers and/or band leaders out there who demand perfection with no variance every night from their bands.

And yet no one goes around slamming everyone else who plays the same exact parts every night. There are whole generations of drummers who have perfected sounding as close to a drum machine as possible.
For them it's considered "doing a good job". "keeping solid time" etc.

Yet Neil is regularly crucified for playing the same songs, the same way, tour after tour as if he is somehow the only drummer on the planet who does this.

Makes no sense.
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  #16  
Old 04-04-2018, 03:31 AM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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I personally find Bruford's technique more impressive, but the music never really stuck with me that same way as Rush.
You must not have listened to the right stuff. Close to the Edge? Fragile? Red? Discipline? Starless? One of a Kind? Gradually Going Tornado? Man, all of those records rise above anything Rush ever recorded.
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  #17  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:29 AM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

I scratch my head at how any non-famous, amateur or un-accomplished drummer sitting at a keyboard can critique a drummer such as Neil (or anybody else) who has clearly carried out a long and successful career. Boggles the mind. As if Sabian videos are any kind of standard to hold anybody to?
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  #18  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:39 AM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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You must not have listened to the right stuff. Close to the Edge? Fragile? Red? Discipline? Starless? One of a Kind? Gradually Going Tornado? Man, all of those records rise above anything Rush ever recorded.
Yes is my all time favorite but Rush isnít far behind. Stop comparing apples to oranges. It isnít a competition.
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  #19  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:29 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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I scratch my head at how any non-famous, amateur or un-accomplished drummer sitting at a keyboard can critique a drummer such as Neil (or anybody else) who has clearly carried out a long and successful career. Boggles the mind. As if Sabian videos are any kind of standard to hold anybody to?
Yep thats me. However, the original point of the discussion is that I found it uncharacteristic of Neil to jokingly "knock" Ringo (carrying on the the old tale that Ringo did not play on the Beatles tracks out side of Paul on a few). Then keep it going by pointing to Paul's solo album style (which has no similarities to the Abbey Road solo).
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Old 04-04-2018, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Oh, another let's bash Neil thread.

I mean, we can't go a more than a few months without someone bashing Neil Peart.

I'm not sure why some people get so much joy out of posting anti-Neil threads.
Go to the Rush forum if you havenít. Itís almost primarily Neil bashing.
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  #21  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:11 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

I have been listening to Unorthodox Behavior by Brand-X on Qobuz. Phil Collins really shines on this album. It's like a fusion Genesis album. Jazz fusion with a blend of Progressive rock. So sad Collins cannot play drums anymore due to health.

You can listen here on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1JKX-Pti5M
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  #22  
Old 04-04-2018, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

Its sad because its not just drummers who do it. On the guitar forums its always people bashing Steve Vai. My guess there are less than a handfull of people on this forum who can do what Neil does, but we are all so willing to point out his "faults". Like being great at something is now a bad thing, you have to be great at everything. I would kill to be able to play like Neil Peart, and I would bet that anybody else on this forum would too. And FWIW Im not really a Rush fan, I just have the ability to appreciate somebody who does something well.

What I would all like you do is read the title of this thread again. Ringo and PAUL!!! Are you people really insinuating that Paul McCartney is a better drummer than Neil Peart? I honestly dont even have a response for this.
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Old 04-04-2018, 03:16 PM
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  #23  
Old 04-04-2018, 03:29 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

[quote=eclipseownzu;1553435]Its sad because its not just drummers who do it. On the guitar forums its always people bashing Steve Vai. My guess there are less than a handfull of people on this forum who can do what Neil does, but we are all so willing to point out his "faults". Like being great at something is now a bad thing, you have to be great at everything. I would kill to be able to play like Neil Peart, and I would bet that anybody else on this forum would too. And FWIW Im not really a Rush fan, I just have the ability to appreciate somebody who does something well.

What I would all like you do is read the title of this thread again. Ringo and PAUL!!! Are you people really insinuating that Paul McCartney is a better drummer than Neil Peart? I honestly dont even have a response for this

Where did anyone mention that Ringo and Paul were better drummers than Peart? Point it out and i will correct. Im only bashing Neil because he was bashing Ringo in a non direct sense. I don’t believe any drummer should bash another one. We all have our weaknesses. Neil hopped on the “ Ringo didnt play on Beatles records” train in directly thru his joking and I found it out of out of charactor. Neil, or anyone else, should not do such. Ginger Baker knocking Bonham was wrong to imo.
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Old 04-04-2018, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

Iím not a Rush fan, but Neil is one of those guys that makes people want to play drums. Heís also often mentioned as one of the drum heroes by many drummers. What more can we ask for?
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Old 04-04-2018, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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Yes is my all time favorite but Rush isn’t far behind. Stop comparing apples to oranges. It isn’t a competition.
Relax friend, I was just replying to someone who mentioned that he liked Bruford but didn't find the music/drumming memorable. As for the Yes/Rush comparison, just ask Geddy or Alex who they were emulating when they recorded back in the 70s. Why do you think Geddy played a Rickenbacker bass? Hmmmm.....

As for Neil and Rush, they stopped interesting me right after Signals. A Farewell to Kings was their high point for me.
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Old 04-04-2018, 04:36 PM
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Slightly off topic, but I saw Rush in '74. Not a big deal, but their opening act was a new band at the time...

They sure had a hard time grabbing the audience's attention after THAT!
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Old 04-04-2018, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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Relax friend, I was just replying to someone who mentioned that he liked Bruford but didn't find the music/drumming memorable. As for the Yes/Rush comparison, just ask Geddy or Alex who they were emulating when they recorded back in the 70s. Why do you think Geddy played a Rickenbacker bass? Hmmmm.....

As for Neil and Rush, they stopped interesting me right after Signals. A Farewell to Kings was their high point for me.
I was the guy who posted about Bruford. Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of Yes and love Discipline and other King Crimson. But that stuff never came close to hitting me the same as some Rush songs. When I was a teenager and heard Tom Sawyer for the first time, the hair stood up on the back of my neck. I think it continued to for the first 100 listens. Super cool stuff.

It's all great stuff though. My point was really supposed to be that I give Neil great credit for writing drum parts that made such memorable music. It's not just technically impressive.

I agree with you though, they sort of lost their mojo around Power Windows or so. I was a huge fan, but stopped paying attention around Presto.
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Old 04-04-2018, 05:01 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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Im only bashing Neil because he was bashing Ringo in a non direct sense. I don’t believe any drummer should bash another one. We all have our weaknesses. Neil hopped on the “ Ringo didnt play on Beatles records” train in directly thru his joking and I found it out of out of charactor. Neil, or anyone else, should not do such. Ginger Baker knocking Bonham was wrong to imo.
I suggest you review your first post, where you stated:
"When you watch the Sabian videos that have Neil, Weckl and others together, you can see a big gap between Neil and the others when improvising. Neil always falls back on the One Little Victory intro or some basic rock beat that a 6 year old can play. "
If that was not a point of the thread, why even bring up this kind of diss.
Neil Peart, decades long career, master drummer, ....reduced to his Sabian videos.
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Old 04-04-2018, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

This thread is the drummer equivalent of "My Dad can beat up your Dad".
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Old 04-04-2018, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

IMO NP was (and still is) an easily digestible drummer, people hear him play and they can relate... very much like Bonham, and very much like Ringo.

NP would use just enough odd'ish time spice licks to make you wonder what that flavor is, same with Bonham, same with Ringo, just enough to put them in the 'cool drummer zone'.

Just enough to relate, but not over done- "Hey, I understand that fill in my head." and then dashes of "Hey, I don't quite understand all of that fill." but never "Hey, I don't understand most of what he's doing."
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Old 04-04-2018, 09:33 PM
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Old 04-05-2018, 12:37 AM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
On this note,

There are hundreds (perhaps thousands) of bands out there that play the same songs the same way every night, every tour. Often to click tracks.

There are singers and/or band leaders out there who demand perfection with no variance every night from their bands.

And yet no one goes around slamming everyone else who plays the same exact parts every night.

I agree. When I was reading this post, I immediately thought of The Eagles and their own penchant for playing their songs note-for-note-and-bang-for-bang (as far as drums). Nobody in that band (I'm referring to the extra players) are seemingly allowed to get outside of their "comfort zone" and try to come up with something new that might excite the crowd. I have a feeling that Vince Gill (who is touring with the band now) will get tired of that kind of routine pretty quick.


As for Peart, I'm a bit of a "latecomer to Rush and their body of work so....I can't really comment on the Peart-bashing" that goes on.....
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Old 04-24-2018, 06:56 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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I was the guy who posted about Bruford. Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of Yes and love Discipline and other King Crimson. But that stuff never came close to hitting me the same as some Rush songs. When I was a teenager and heard Tom Sawyer for the first time, the hair stood up on the back of my neck. I think it continued to for the first 100 listens. Super cool stuff.

It's all great stuff though. My point was really supposed to be that I give Neil great credit for writing drum parts that made such memorable music. It's not just technically impressive.

I agree with you though, they sort of lost their mojo around Power Windows or so. I was a huge fan, but stopped paying attention around Presto.
I know that I've transferred to another world when folks are saying that Neil Peart doesn't play anything "technically impressive".

I know that I'm a hack, but I recognize skill. Of varying levels. Peart does amazing stuff. Are there others who do, too, sure. But to say that he's not technically impressive....wow. You must have some serious chops. Rock on.
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Old 04-24-2018, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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I know that I've transferred to another world when folks are saying that Neil Peart doesn't play anything "technically impressive".

I know that I'm a hack, but I recognize skill. Of varying levels. Peart does amazing stuff. Are there others who do, too, sure. But to say that he's not technically impressive....wow. You must have some serious chops. Rock on.
Who said that? If I could be half as good before I get too old to play, I'd be incredibly happy. I just said that I find some of what Bruford does (such as with King Crimson) even more impressive.
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Old 04-25-2018, 12:04 AM
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Who said that? If I could be half as good before I get too old to play, I'd be incredibly happy. I just said that I find some of what Bruford does (such as with King Crimson) even more impressive.
I do give Peart credit. I would say seeing great, technical drummers up close (Gadd, Bruford, etc) in the Buddy Rich Sessions inspired Neil to seek new drumming challenges (Lessons, etc).
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Old 04-25-2018, 01:16 AM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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I agree. When I was reading this post, I immediately thought of The Eagles and their own penchant for playing their songs note-for-note-and-bang-for-bang (as far as drums). Nobody in that band (I'm referring to the extra players) are seemingly allowed to get outside of their "comfort zone" and try to come up with something new that might excite the crowd. I have a feeling that Vince Gill (who is touring with the band now) will get tired of that kind of routine pretty quick..
When I pay money to see a band that I like I expect to hear the music like it was on the record---and I certainly don't care to hear a bunch of improv by "the new guy" I can see a cover band for free if I want to listen to a "version" of the song!
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:41 AM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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Originally Posted by hippy chip View Post
When I pay money to see a band that I like I expect to hear the music like it was on the record---and I certainly don't care to hear a bunch of improv by "the new guy" I can see a cover band for free if I want to listen to a "version" of the song!
I can understand this too. Some bands are known for certain things - The Eagles sticking to the recorded song is not a new idea. From what I've learned over the years, Count Basie and Duke Ellington even had written out sax solos for the band so they would be playing the recorded arrangement. It pays to give the audience what it expects.

OTOH - that's why jazz/fusion exists. You get almost a different show every night. Rush started to improvise, and The Police were all over this too. It just depends on what you like. I like to hear my favorite songs, but to hear a different twist done by the actual artist is pretty cool. Musicians are like this. People who are into the Eagles aren't. Besides, there are some videos where the Eagles were attempting to improv something and it was just bad.
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:43 AM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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Originally Posted by hippy chip View Post
When I pay money to see a band that I like I expect to hear the music like it was on the record---and I certainly don't care to hear a bunch of improv by "the new guy" I can see a cover band for free if I want to listen to a "version" of the song!
To each his own, I guess.

To me, there's almost nothing worse than a live show that is a literal note for note album version fest. I can stream it for free(anywhere, anytime!) if I want to listen to the album "version" of the song!

I go to a show for the spontaneous musical genius and live energy of a song played with passion, rather than a perfect rehearsal of what I've already heard and enjoyed hundreds of times.

I guess it's kind of polarizing. Shows in my recorded music preferences too if I think about it.
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

Or most blues. Or Zepplin in the day: they never played two shows the same way. Or the Stones.

It is less dependent on the genre and more dependent on the musicians and the band leader.


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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
I can understand this too. Some bands are known for certain things - The Eagles sticking to the recorded song is not a new idea. From what I've learned over the years, Count Basie and Duke Ellington even had written out sax solos for the band so they would be playing the recorded arrangement. It pays to give the audience what it expects.

OTOH - that's why jazz/fusion exists. You get almost a different show every night. Rush started to improvise, and The Police were all over this too. It just depends on what you like. I like to hear my favorite songs, but to hear a different twist done by the actual artist is pretty cool. Musicians are like this. People who are into the Eagles aren't. Besides, there are some videos where the Eagles were attempting to improv something and it was just bad.
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:51 AM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

+1000% !!! +1000% !!! +1000% !!! +1000% !!!+1000% !!!

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
To each his own, I guess.

To me, there's almost nothing worse than a live show that is a literal note for note album version fest. I can stream it for free(anywhere, anytime!) if I want to listen to the album "version" of the song!

I go to a show for the spontaneous musical genius and live energy of a song played with passion, rather than a perfect rehearsal of what I've already heard and enjoyed hundreds of times.

I guess it's kind of polarizing. Shows in my recorded music preferences too if I think about it.
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Old 04-25-2018, 06:08 AM
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Default Re: Sorry Neil......Ringo and Paul has much more "feel" than you

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
To each his own, I guess.

To me, there's almost nothing worse than a live show that is a literal note for note album version fest. I can stream it for free(anywhere, anytime!) if I want to listen to the album "version" of the song!
So true. The live concert should be BETTER than the recorded versions. After playing songs live night after night, a band worth their weight will make continuous improvements and embellishments that make you go "wow!".
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