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Old 02-03-2018, 12:44 AM
camondrums camondrums is offline
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Default 300 BPM? Really guys?

A drum discussion that might be a huge shock to all you metal drummers. Its more common now that we see drummers claim that they can play 300 BPM. How is it that drummers like Derek Roddy and John Longstreth are able to keep playing fast for a longer period of time? Find out why these big numbers aren’t impressing everyone, especially if you're only playing them for 10 seconds!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJU8aDKDrXU
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:42 AM
beyondbetrayal beyondbetrayal is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

I saw a guy bragging about playing 500 BPM the other day online haha.

People say they play 300 all the time... Sure. I can play 1000 BPM depending on whatever subdivision I want to play.

When referring to "speed" it is usually assumed we are talking 16th notes. Certain bands and drummers are pushing the 300 range, but even as a metal fan there becomes a part where as cool and techy as it is, it just doesn't sound musical.

I also like to be able to maintain something for several minutes before saying I can do something. Nobody cares about a 5 second double kick or blast beat part. haha...

You nailed it saying being relaxed is the key as well.
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:44 AM
camondrums camondrums is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

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Originally Posted by beyondbetrayal View Post
I saw a guy bragging about playing 500 BPM the other day online haha.

People say they play 300 all the time... Sure. I can play 1000 BPM depending on whatever subdivision I want to play.

When referring to "speed" it is usually assumed we are talking 16th notes. Certain bands and drummers are pushing the 300 range, but even as a metal fan there becomes a part where as cool and techy as it is, it just doesn't sound musical.

I also like to be able to maintain something for several minutes before saying I can do something. Nobody cares about a 5 second double kick or blast beat part. haha...

You nailed it saying being relaxed is the key as well.
THANK YOU! I've had a few comments already on Facebook insinuating that I was being an "elitist, arrogant, blah blah blah". Anyway, i'm glad you don't see that, as I was only explaining a couple different methods on obtaining endurance, speed, and control.

Some peoples kids...
\M/
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Old 02-03-2018, 07:41 AM
Hummada Hummada is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

Is this the new fad? Being able to play fast?

The only thing that has helped me develope speed is playing exercises at about 40-60 bpm. It makes you focus on everything you're doing. There's nothing that I play that would get up to blazing speeds even though I could if I wanted. There are drummers that are insanely fast around my town and it sounds funny to me. It's not my thing, but I can tell some of these guys have spent a lot of time getting up to those speeds.

It's more mathematical than music to my ears.
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Old 02-03-2018, 09:02 AM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

I try to not get too worked up over the inane goals and personal accomplishments of others, though I do applaud their enthusiasm. Whether it's blazing singles at 300bpm, or lifting 300lbs, or eating 300 hot dogs.... It's all the same, and I have no reason to diminish someone else's shtick from my armchair.

Besides, I can already do 300BPM.. I just stick out my tongue, close my lips, and blow.
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

I'm pretty sure people can play incredibly fast, but will it sonically sound like notes or break down to sound like a blurry, buzzy, fart. So the trick is playing fast and clean-so you can actually hear speedy notes rather than a blurry buzzy fart.
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Old 02-03-2018, 05:18 PM
Push pull stroke Push pull stroke is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

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Originally Posted by GetAgrippa View Post
I'm pretty sure people can play incredibly fast, but will it sonically sound like notes or break down to sound like a blurry, buzzy, fart. So the trick is playing fast and clean-so you can actually hear speedy notes rather than a blurry buzzy fart.
Yep. Playing clean at that tempo, especially doing linear stuff between hands and feet, is really, really hard.
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Old 02-03-2018, 11:01 PM
bud7h4 bud7h4 is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

I've seen a few people play 16ths at about that speed. It's impressive when they do so with good form, not so much when it's that one-inch twitch.

I'm perfectly content with maxing out at 270. I don't really like the sound of 300. There's a point at which a vicious double bass becomes a mere buzz, the drumming starts to sound too thin and light, and then all the bottom falls out of the music. I prefer my metal heavy.
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Old 02-04-2018, 04:59 AM
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Seafroggys Seafroggys is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

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Originally Posted by Hummada View Post
Is this the new fad? Being able to play fast?
*NEW* fad? Have you not been a drummer for the past 70 years? Playing fast has *always* been a fad.
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Old 02-04-2018, 05:26 AM
beyondbetrayal beyondbetrayal is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

i live in the 220-260 range for the metal I play but I am really really pushing for 260...

I am not going to try and push past it. I like to play clean for longer periods of time.

I think my band is actually going to shoot from 180-220ish for the next album and groove a bit more. (extreme metal stuff)


Fast is fun, but clean is better.

I don't think it's a fad... I don't think grooving a is a fad, I don't think odd time is a fad. They just are what they are.. I like to have a bit of everything in my playing and be able to do it all so when the music calls for it I can do it.
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:45 AM
JJKK JJKK is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

Nile drummers? In my opinion for metal you need all the elements of metal music for it to actually work (vocals are optional in some cases). Fast drumming is just a part of it, and might sound stupid and pointless when taken out of context.
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Old 02-04-2018, 12:04 PM
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Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

Speed is nothing new.

I'm not a metal guy, but pushing certain jazz tunes past 360 has always been a thing. Just a sport for some, but virtuosos pushing bounderies like that have always been a thing, long before swing or double bass metal was invented.
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:13 PM
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

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Originally Posted by Odd-Arne Oseberg View Post
Speed is nothing new.

I'm not a metal guy, but pushing certain jazz tunes past 360 has always been a thing. Just a sport for some, but virtuosos pushing bounderies like that have always been a thing, long before swing or double bass metal was invented.

Sure but in jazz at 360 you're playing triplets (swing eighths) not 16ths, no?
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

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Sure but in jazz at 360 you're playing triplets (swing eighths) not 16ths, no?
Not really comparing styles. At that tempo I think most of us stick to 8th notes, swing has left the building and the ride is simply an accented 3 triple stroke.

In any case, it's really the same. You have to be there musically and hear that fast. Hand speed is just a pre-requisite to be able to do and focus on that.
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So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
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Old 02-04-2018, 05:26 PM
Hummada Hummada is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

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Originally Posted by Seafroggys View Post
*NEW* fad? Have you not been a drummer for the past 70 years? Playing fast has *always* been a fad.
I wouldn't call it a fad if it is music. You didn't have guys 70 years ago that play blast beats as fast as possible(if they were alive today they would laugh at it). Some big band players played fast because that was just the way they played. It wasn't them trying to impress with speed. They had showmanship which is not the same. There is a major difference between then and now. It's not a good difference as far as drummers are measured. Drummers back then were way beyond any of the speed guys of today.

When I say fad I mean something that's not going to last long. Hopefully! Ha ha
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

Vivace – lively and fast (156–176 bpm)
Vivacissimo – very fast and lively (172–176 bpm)
Allegrissimo or Allegro vivace – very fast (172–176 bpm)
Presto – very, very fast (168–200 bpm)
Prestissimo – even faster than presto (200 bpm and over)
I remember the conductor of an orchestra I played in use "Presto"and "Prestissmo" though he never told me a beats per minute just flaps his arms and " a pick it up Art" ;)

A hummingbird can flap it's wing some 900-1200 bpm so until we reach that I'm not impressed hee, hee, hee.
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:53 PM
bud7h4 bud7h4 is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

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Originally Posted by Odd-Arne Oseberg View Post
Not really comparing styles. At that tempo I think most of us stick to 8th notes, swing has left the building and the ride is simply an accented 3 triple stroke.

In any case, it's really the same. You have to be there musically and hear that fast. Hand speed is just a pre-requisite to be able to do and focus on that.
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the OP is referring to double bass 16ths at 300 bpm specifically, not just the tempo of the music.

But you're absolutely right, very high tempos in jazz is common, and you have to be able to hear and feel the music at that tempo.

Funny thing about a lot of extreme metal, the tempo might be 280 BPM, and the double bass might be blazing 16th notes, yet the music is often grooving in 8ths or quarters.
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  #18  
Old 02-05-2018, 12:46 AM
camondrums camondrums is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

Glad to have you guys talking about this subject. There's a lot more to the idea than I had originally thought. So its very cool that you guys are open to discussion on here!

Thanks so much!
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Old 02-05-2018, 12:55 AM
beyondbetrayal beyondbetrayal is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

I screwed up and made a new thread rather than replying. but set the click to 200 bpm and it feels quite lively. setting it to 100 makes me relax. haha
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Old 02-05-2018, 01:24 AM
Hummada Hummada is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

It doesn't matter if it's feet or hands. It's all the same. If it's forced you can be in time playing music, but you won't get far.

About a year ago I was pushing myself with singles and doubles on my practice pad at work. I was playing singles for about 1 minute at 280 bpm because I could play them clean at that speed for that amount of time. It was forced for me. I thought they felt good.... Nope

Right now I could probably go way beyond that speed and it would be nothing forced. And that is only because I learned technique(not mastered). Not sitting there building muscle. Learning proper technique at slow speeds build the right muscle give you the abilities (not muscling!). If your playing on a snare at blazing speeds with/without technique, I can hear the difference.

Its also easier to play fast with metal because it's one speed, one feeling, and one sided(linear). I could teach a guitar player to play metal drums. But!!! I cannot teach a guitar player to play music! Joking aside...


Anywho, there's a lot of flaws in the OP post. Not trying to nit pick. Just pointing that out. Everyone is learning all the time. If you say your not then you just cut off your playing level. When he said technique is not the be all end all for speed, that's when I know he hasn't learned it properly. It is the way to speed, but not music.

It's a tool to be able to play music without thinking about what your limbs are doing to a certain point. It's a state of mind and it basically is meditation. The slow down of time as we know it. Or it's actually that time doesn't exist and we only experience it.
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Old 02-05-2018, 03:44 AM
AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

I don't play particularly fast - maybe 270 after a lot of warming up - but speed is sometimes an issue. I played with a jazz band and all they wanted to do was play fast. And I would say over and over: first, play it slow. When we get through it 10 times slow we can try fast.

But no, eventually I just got the boot :-P
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Old 02-06-2018, 06:20 PM
camondrums camondrums is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

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Originally Posted by Hummada View Post
It doesn't matter if it's feet or hands. It's all the same. If it's forced you can be in time playing music, but you won't get far.

About a year ago I was pushing myself with singles and doubles on my practice pad at work. I was playing singles for about 1 minute at 280 bpm because I could play them clean at that speed for that amount of time. It was forced for me. I thought they felt good.... Nope

Right now I could probably go way beyond that speed and it would be nothing forced. And that is only because I learned technique(not mastered). Not sitting there building muscle. Learning proper technique at slow speeds build the right muscle give you the abilities (not muscling!). If your playing on a snare at blazing speeds with/without technique, I can hear the difference.

Its also easier to play fast with metal because it's one speed, one feeling, and one sided(linear). I could teach a guitar player to play metal drums. But!!! I cannot teach a guitar player to play music! Joking aside...


Anywho, there's a lot of flaws in the OP post. Not trying to nit pick. Just pointing that out. Everyone is learning all the time. If you say your not then you just cut off your playing level. When he said technique is not the be all end all for speed, that's when I know he hasn't learned it properly. It is the way to speed, but not music.

It's a tool to be able to play music without thinking about what your limbs are doing to a certain point. It's a state of mind and it basically is meditation. The slow down of time as we know it. Or it's actually that time doesn't exist and we only experience it.
Of course I don't have all the answers, and i'm also learning as I go. But, going back to your comment on metal being linear. I totally disagree. There are tons of metal drummers out there with A LOT of groove. Just because the style calls for speed, that doesn't mean that is all that metal drumming consist of. Take a listen to Meshuggah for instance. Their sound is ALMOST based solely off of rhythmic progression, and that's just one metal band I can think of off the top of my head.
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Old 02-06-2018, 07:40 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

...

I bench 300 on a good day. No roids

...
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Old 02-06-2018, 09:20 PM
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

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...

I bench 300 on a good day. No roids

...
Me too! As long as it's cumulative... lol
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:37 PM
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Default Re: 300 BPM? Really guys?

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Originally Posted by camondrums View Post
Of course I don't have all the answers, and i'm also learning as I go. But, going back to your comment on metal being linear. I totally disagree. There are tons of metal drummers out there with A LOT of groove. Just because the style calls for speed, that doesn't mean that is all that metal drumming consist of. Take a listen to Meshuggah for instance. Their sound is ALMOST based solely off of rhythmic progression, and that's just one metal band I can think of off the top of my head.
I'll check em out. I've never heard a metal drummer groove. I've heard some guys play metal mathematical but then hear them play in a blues band with a solid groove. I just don't get it. I guess it's what the song writers want? I would say no and quit because it's does nothing for me.

I'm still learning as well and that's why I pointed that out. If you take the time to learn technique from a reputable teacher, you will be able to play faster for longer while being loose. you can force it, but you risk injury or you will hit a wall.

BTW, I can't bench worth a damn because I have 6' arms. I like to lift heavy stuff and put it down.
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