DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #41  
Old 02-06-2018, 09:17 PM
gf2564
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElectricCompany View Post
Buddy Rich didn't need to play in two different time signatures across four limbs, he needed to be the engine of the music. He needed people to dance, to feel something. His musicianship reached people all around the world- not just other drummers- and he made his chops, his ooh-and-aw moments, fit into that musicianship. He didn't need people to decode his playing because it was an extension of the music. It was that simple, but it took immense talent. He was one of very few drummers in history who made mainstream music unique because of the drummer, and he did it in every group he played with.

Drumming doesn't exist in a vacuum. Deciding that today's musical gymnastics surpass what people did fifty years ago is a disservice to what people of that day accomplished. Today's top-level technical players are still influenced by Buddy, even if their playing doesn't reflect it, but just because they're pushing the boundaries in areas that weren't yet thought of during Buddy's time doesn't mean they've surpassed him. Not in the slightest.
Hear, hear! As others have said, I am not a fan of trying to label/identify who is "best", but.........I agree with your assessment of his talents, dedication and influence 100%!
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-06-2018, 09:18 PM
mmulcahy1's Avatar
mmulcahy1 mmulcahy1 is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
Posts: 2,087
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Let's just put all of this Who's the Greatest Drummer of All Time stuff to bed right now.

Buddy Rich is the second greatest... I am the greatest of all time.

Behave, and don't question me!
__________________
Gretsch Catalina Maple Drums / Ludwig Supraphonic Snare Drum / Paiste Giant Beat & 2oo2 Cymbals
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-06-2018, 09:45 PM
boomstick's Avatar
boomstick boomstick is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 776
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
"the greatest drummer of all time"
I don't think such a thing exists. Buddy is a great drummer no doubt, and I love to watch his eye-popping skills, but from that generation, I'm more inspired by Krupa.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-06-2018, 09:46 PM
oldskoolsoul's Avatar
oldskoolsoul oldskoolsoul is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 476
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElectricCompany View Post
..Today's top-level technical players are still influenced by Buddy, even if their playing doesn't reflect it..

The playing (in a technical way..) of basically every top-level traditional-grip player from today shows pretty obvious that they studied Buddy Rich a lot..
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-06-2018, 09:56 PM
incrementalg incrementalg is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,328
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Budd was certainly no Peter Criss, but the guy put on his pants, picked up his sticks and kept on tryin'. That's what counts.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 02-06-2018, 10:03 PM
Otto Otto is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,529
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Greatest?

All that says is magnitude...but what is the scale?

One of the larger laments of college admissions folks is the lack of understanding of the need for a logical label on a scalar measure.

In the end, we are talking about art...and 'greatest' is foolish in that light.

If we decide to alter our scalar label, to something like 'fastest double stroke roll', then we might be able to actually say something rational...but then, who cares who is fastest...I sure don't.

In the end, art is NOT a competition...a competition is a competition.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-06-2018, 11:21 PM
River19's Avatar
River19 River19 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 219
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peppermint_Sanders View Post
It's art, and it's subjective. There is no way to prove, even if he was still living, if Buddy was better than (insert drummer) is or was. His body of work is amazing, but if you grew up having never seen/heard him play (live or recorded) then what frame of reference are you drawing from? This is a ridiculous argument, and one that can't be proven wrong or right...not even in a Rolling Stone article.
This was my reaction as well, saved some typing.
__________________
Know a little about a lot, and a lot about a little
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 02-06-2018, 11:21 PM
TK-421's Avatar
TK-421 TK-421 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 256
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
I must ask the question though, misleading from what?
I was alluding to the fact that there really is no way to have a greatest anything of all time. There's just no objective way to do that, since by its very nature a GOAT is very subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
This is really just a bit of hero-worship, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's like politics, or religion, you either accept it or don't. But if you don't think so, and somebody else does, are you saying one of them is wrong? In instances like this, we can all be right, because it certainly doesn't change anything by believing one way or the other.
I don't think anyone is wrong, since it's all so subjective. Unless of course anyone actually thinks Jeff Indyke is the best ;)
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-06-2018, 11:38 PM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,318
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
I was alluding to the fact that there really is no way to have a greatest anything of all time. There's just no objective way to do that, since by its very nature a GOAT is very subjective.



I don't think anyone is wrong, since it's all so subjective. Unless of course anyone actually thinks Jeff Indyke is the best ;)
I SO donít know who Jeff Indyke is. I feel left out of a joke or something.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-07-2018, 12:05 AM
TK-421's Avatar
TK-421 TK-421 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 256
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
I SO don’t know who Jeff Indyke is. I feel left out of a joke or something.
May I enlighten you then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTJsbKlY_gQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngnw3aIgGmE

Basically, imagine if your wacky uncle who thinks he can play drums decided to record a bunch of YouTube "instructional" videos. Unintentional hilarity ensues.
Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2018, 12:12 AM
wildbill
This message has been deleted by wildbill.
  #51  
Old 02-07-2018, 12:30 AM
WallyY WallyY is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Boston, US
Posts: 1,787
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polska View Post
Sure, Peart can't swing the Buddy Rich Big Band - big deal. Rich absolutely wouldn't have been able to sit in on Tom Sawyer.
Yes, he would. Much better.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 02-07-2018, 01:08 AM
Traditional Grip's Avatar
Traditional Grip Traditional Grip is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 123
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyY View Post
Yes, he would. Much better.
Much much better. If Buddy was session drummer in the 80's the radio would be a blast to listen to.
__________________
"There are only two types of music, good and bad."

ó Buddy Rich
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 02-07-2018, 01:10 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,318
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
May I enlighten you then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTJsbKlY_gQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngnw3aIgGmE

Basically, imagine if your wacky uncle who thinks he can play drums decided to record a bunch of YouTube "instructional" videos. Unintentional hilarity ensues.
Ah. Like Jens Hannemann ;)
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 02-07-2018, 01:15 AM
Hummada Hummada is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 114
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

If you take the subjective, which anything in the world can be, and "art" out of the equation then you still have the greatest. Why? Because there's no one that can do what he could do on drums. Not even the top end guys that practice and gig with the top musicians of today.

There are the greatest(of many different subject) and that's what inspiration and hopefulness of another being born in our lifetime is. Not worship. The scale is there and we can get to it in our own way, but there's no doubt that there are people born to do these things naturally. Those people are the inspiration and hope that exists. They are one in millions!!!

There are people out there that could be the greatest, but they don't have the privilege or the opportunity to be in the spot light. So that is still the scale.

You can take almost any subject and pick out the greatest. It's what everyone learns from and the greatest learned from everyone else as well. It's not a one way street. It's a collective whole and someone will be on top.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 02-07-2018, 01:16 AM
Bonzodownunder Bonzodownunder is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Warrandyte, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Posts: 228
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

No.Blaine, Gadd, Gordon, Earl Palmer, John "Jr" Robinson are.WHY?! , simply because of the sheer number of sessions played on&DIFFERENT & VARIOUS STYLES of music played!.Imho(&humble opinion) BR 's overrated & could only play ONE style of music:bigband, bebop&jazz!.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 02-07-2018, 01:47 AM
GetAgrippa's Avatar
GetAgrippa GetAgrippa is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: U.S.
Posts: 2,916
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Of course someone can emulate Buddy Rich-as posted here on DW. http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Eric_Fischer.html. Pretty dang impressive of Eric.
__________________
"I roll to the tune of a different drummer ;) "
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 02-07-2018, 01:50 AM
Hummada Hummada is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 114
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzodownunder View Post
No.Blaine, Gadd, Gordon, Earl Palmer, John "Jr" Robinson are.WHY?! , simply because of the sheer number of sessions played on&DIFFERENT & VARIOUS STYLES of music played!.Imho(&humble opinion) BR 's overrated & could only play ONE style of music:bigband, bebop&jazz!.
The thing is about style is that there is no style. Any of the big band drummers can play any style. That's what's missing that people don't understand. There are styles from different cultures around the world. Big band/jazz has a combination of all that, and you can say that about every other style but it builds up to that. . Sure there are extreme styles that are more straight forward(like speed metal and rap which I can't stand), but it's all there. A whole collective! You can take any subject in the world and apply that. The sub categories are a pleasure and are built upon, but it all comes together just like a pot of chili.

I'm more of fan of those guys you mentioned when I listen to music because they play more simple with the level of musicality that Buddy had. Buddy is in your face and playing to extreme levels of energy, but when he is playing it's just the natural way he plays. He himself didn't know how he was doing what he did on those drums. The info is out there and I'm not telling you nothing new. This is my opinion and your welcome to disagree. We can only go by the info we have accepted-sorry I just made that up. That's what I love about people... Arguing, learning, and a little Peace.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 02-07-2018, 01:59 AM
TK-421's Avatar
TK-421 TK-421 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 256
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Ah. Like Jens Hannemann ;)
I said unintentional hilarity.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 02-07-2018, 02:11 AM
Hummada Hummada is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 114
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
I said unintentional hilarity.
The guy can't play. He has too many cymbals and drums. Not once did I see or hear cowbell!
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 02-07-2018, 02:27 AM
BenjaminCamelot's Avatar
BenjaminCamelot BenjaminCamelot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: San Francisco, California
Posts: 494
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Meg white puts all these idiots to shame, anyway.
Lars Ulrich does actually.
__________________
Pearl | Zildjian | Remo | Pro-Mark
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 02-07-2018, 02:33 AM
Push pull stroke Push pull stroke is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 1,502
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
Not really related to the question about the greatest drummer, but it does get me thinking about something I've been contemplating lately.

There aren't many physical feats that aren't surpassed over time. Athletes get faster and stronger. One of the few things in drumming that I feel has not really been done better would be Buddy's single-stroke roll. Another is Tony's ride cymbal playing, those crazy five-note groupings at blazing tempos. I guess it's not so shocking when you think about the relatively low demand for those particular skills in modern music. But still, they have stood the test of time.

For Buddy, the specific thing I'm amazed by is that single-stroke roll thing he did, where he starts slow and builds it up, moves it to the rim of the snare and then back, from pianissimo to forte. I don't think anyone has the technique to do that like him, even today. Play faster? Sure. But the power, control and speed combined needed to pull that off so cleanly across tempos and dynamics is what sets Buddy apart. I've watched Mangini, Jojo and others try it and I don't think they come all that close. The speed is there, but the gradual build-up, the power to go from a whisper to a roar, their techniques don't seem to quite work the same way. There are players who can play more notes in a minute, but the complete command of it is something I don't think has been done better in all the decades since.

Again, nothing to do with the topic of who the greatest drummer is. Just saying.
Maybe. Actually, the one thing Iíve never seen anyone do as well is his buzz roll. Buddy himself said Billy Gladstone had a better buzz roll, but Iíve never seen video of Gladstoneís playing.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 02-07-2018, 02:56 AM
Texan Texan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 32
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Evidently, many of those who do not believe BR is the greatest drummer of all time don't have the proper perspective. Most of those who have commented above who don't believe BR is the greatest have only seen YouTube videos of him in his 70s when he was just a shadow of himself compared to his prime. I suggest that these people get the album "Swingin' New Big Band" that was recorded live when Rich was 50 years old and still in his prime. Those who commented that he didn't have foot work like the chops masters of today need only listen to "West Side Story Medley" where they will hear polyrhythms and time signature changes. Also, there is a YouTube recording made in the 40s in which Rich comes out on stage where there were only two bass drums set up. He proceeds to play double bass patterns to show that the whole Louis Bellson double bass drum thing was no big deal.

BR had an idetic memory and when his new big band was rehearsing, a drummer was brought in to play the songs using the charts on the initial play through, after which Rich would have the whole song down.

Buddy Rich could play 600 strokes per minute continuously with his left hand--cleanly.

The speed drummers of today playing very fast compared to how Rich played in the context of a song or a solo is like comparing the kids who can do all kinds of dazzling dunks to Michael Jordan dunking against a couple of 6'11" NBA players during an NBA game.

Anyone who knows anything about jazz knows that it is significantly more complex than rock--even progressive rock (example Take Five by Dave Brubeck Quartet). Rich could play anything in front of him of any genre.

There are those who maintain that John Bonham is the greatest rock drummer. Guess who John Bonham thought was the greatest drummer and was a huge influence--Buddy Rich.

How many drummers have fronted his own band for decades?

I could go on, but I rest my case.

Last edited by Texan; 02-07-2018 at 09:12 PM. Reason: Error in original post
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 02-07-2018, 03:06 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,318
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Push pull stroke View Post
Maybe. Actually, the one thing Iíve never seen anyone do as well is his buzz roll. Buddy himself said Billy Gladstone had a better buzz roll, but Iíve never seen video of Gladstoneís playing.
He also said he admired Chick Webb. Imagine how incredible that guy was if Buddy held him in high-esteem.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 02-07-2018, 03:16 AM
Hollywood Jim's Avatar
Hollywood Jim Hollywood Jim is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 3,721
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

I like the greatest "of all time" part. Yes Buddy Rich is the greatest and no one will ever be better. From now until eternity.


.
__________________
"To play a wrong note is insignificant. To play without passion is inexcusable." - Beethoven
Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2018, 05:42 AM
wildbill
This message has been deleted by wildbill.
  #65  
Old 02-07-2018, 06:26 AM
Pocket-full-of-gold's Avatar
Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 11,226
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Many names thrown about in this thread. Sure some of them have the ability. Many may have him licked in technical facility. Some may even have it over him as far as a broader application of their musicality is concerned.

But which one of them has stood taller?

Go and ask the average man on the street who Steve Gadd, or Hal Blaine, or Gavin Harrison, or Mike Mangini are. You'll draw a blank. But there was a time where everyone knew Buddy.

Like I said in the very first response. Much like Ali, his greatness lies as much in the profile he managed to raise and the attention he was able to bring to to his craft, as it was actually plying that craft. He transcended the actual act of playing drums and became a focal point for the entire craft.

He was a giant. None have stood taller or shone brighter. That's not subjective. That's just cold hard fact. And for that reason alone, rightly or wrongly, he'll continue to top "best ever" lists.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 02-07-2018, 06:29 AM
drumming sort of person's Avatar
drumming sort of person drumming sort of person is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,358
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Push pull stroke View Post
You think Johnny Rabb couldnít have beaten Buddy at hand technique? Or Mike Mangini?
Correct. Neither one.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 02-07-2018, 06:30 AM
drumming sort of person's Avatar
drumming sort of person drumming sort of person is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,358
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
That's essentially the point I was trying to make. Drummers like that can match (if not exceed) Buddy's hand technique, yet are leaps and bounds better at foot technique.
Seriously? Do your homework dude. Buddy played a complete set once with NO SPRING on his pedal. Give that a shot.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 02-07-2018, 01:11 PM
mikel mikel is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Midlands. England.
Posts: 2,265
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Chick Webb was way ahead of his time, probably more so than Buddy was during his era. And he was a nice, modest and encouraging guy.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 02-07-2018, 03:37 PM
Traditional Grip's Avatar
Traditional Grip Traditional Grip is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 123
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAgrippa View Post
Of course someone can emulate Buddy Rich-as posted here on DW. http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Eric_Fischer.html. Pretty dang impressive of Eric.
Impressive indeed!

However, this is a careful note-by-note transcription, study, and remake of a selected solo. Anyone with the notation know-how and chops could pull this off.

Put this guy in Buddy's Big Bang, have him drive the songs and improvise several solos on the spot. I don't think anyone with their eyes closed would think it was really Buddy.

Not digging this wonderful accomplishment in any way, as it is very impressive. I'm just saying that to emulate Buddy, you have to be able to do several of these on the spot and drive the band in the way he did. I've yet to see that happen.
__________________
"There are only two types of music, good and bad."

ó Buddy Rich
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 02-07-2018, 06:15 PM
Push pull stroke Push pull stroke is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 1,502
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
He also said he admired Chick Webb. Imagine how incredible that guy was if Buddy held him in high-esteem.
Indeed. Iím going to go YouTube some Chick Webb right now
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 02-07-2018, 06:24 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,092
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikel View Post
Chick Webb was way ahead of his time, probably more so than Buddy was during his era. And he was a nice, modest and encouraging guy.
Well... here's Art Blakey's account of his lessons with Webb:

Quote:
He came in wearing a camel-hair coat and a cap, and brought Ella Fitzgerald and a chihuahua with him. He said, 'Make a roll, kid,' and I started rollingówhat I thought was a roll. He walked to the door with Ella, pushed her out, turned around, looked at me, went 'Sheeeeeeeeeet,' slammed the door and walked away.

Another time I went to see him, and I thought I'd hang out with him all night. Instead, he put me upstairs with a metronome, made that damn thing go at the slowest tempo you ever heard, and said, 'Roll to a hundred, and if you stop, I'll come upstairs and break your skull.'
(h/t Chip Stern)
__________________
Visit Cruise Ship Drummer! - a drumming blog | 2017 CSD! Book of the Blog now available
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 02-07-2018, 07:58 PM
Polska's Avatar
Polska Polska is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 96
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan View Post
Evidently, many of those who do not believe BR is the greatest drummer of all time don't have the proper perspective. Most of those who have commented above who don't believe BR is the greatest have only seen YouTube videos of him in his 70s when he was just a shadow of himself compared to his prime. I suggest that these people get the album "Swingin' New Big Band" that was recorded live when Rich was 50 years old and still in his prime. Those who commented that he didn't have foot work like the chops masters of today need only listen to "West Side Story Medley" where they will hear polyrhythms and time signature changes. Also, there is a YouTube recording made in the 40s in which Rich comes out on stage where there were only two bass drums set up. He proceeds to play double bass patterns to show that the whole Louis Bellson double bass drum thing was no big deal.

BR had an idetic memory and when his new big band was rehearsing, a drummer was brought in to play the songs using the charts on the initial play through, after which Rich would have the whole song down.

Buddy Rich could play 600 strokes continuously with his left hand--cleanly.

The speed drummers of today playing very fast compared to how Rich played in the context of a song or a solo is like comparing the kids who can do all kinds of dazzling dunks to Michael Jordan dunking against a couple of 6'11" NBA players during an NBA game.

Anyone who knows anything about jazz knows that it is significantly more complex than rock--even progressive rock (example Take Five by Dave Brubeck Quartet). Rich could play anything in front of him of any genre.

There are those who maintain that John Bonham is the greatest rock drummer. Guess who John Bonham thought was the greatest drummer and was a huge influence--Buddy Rich.

How many drummers have fronted his own band for decades?

I could go on, but I rest my case.
Wow....yeah....600 you say....wow. All of this is just....wow.

"anyone who knows anything about jazz knows that it is significantly more complex than rock--even progressive rock"....wow, dummy me. May as well stop listening to both jazz and prog for all the good it's done me over the years. Apparently I've learned much less than I thought over the decades.

Whelp - you've convinced me.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 02-07-2018, 09:10 PM
Texan Texan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 32
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Sorry, the 600 strokes were per minute. My error in omitting that fact.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 02-08-2018, 01:39 AM
Signals's Avatar
Signals Signals is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 488
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Whoa, let's back up for a second. I thought I just read that Jeff Indyke is not the greatest drummer ever...? ...this cannot be correct...
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 02-08-2018, 02:01 AM
TripleStroke's Avatar
TripleStroke TripleStroke is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Markham, ON
Posts: 221
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Extremely easy question to hear, difficult to answer to

I was gonna chime in but answers I got through reading this thread got me nodding. That's all
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 02-08-2018, 02:23 AM
GetAgrippa's Avatar
GetAgrippa GetAgrippa is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: U.S.
Posts: 2,916
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

600 strokes per minute?? Isn't the record something like 1,200 strokes per minute by Mike Mangini and Tom Grosset? Anyways I am a huge Buddy Rich fan-I vividly remember him on Johnny Carson-another drummer, and he was always entertaining on the kit and off in conversation-the drum battles were fun too. He was also into martial arts and so was I at the time. He definitely has the name recognition and has inspired generations of drummers. Even with Buddy's huge ego I'm sure he hopes others will continue and surpass his efforts though-as he carried the torch so long as a great emissary for drumming. So yeah Buddy's the greatest but that's like I wink and tell each of my daughters each is my favorite. Which they are.
__________________
"I roll to the tune of a different drummer ;) "
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 02-08-2018, 03:15 AM
Texan Texan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 32
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

The 600 strokes per minute continuously were with his left hand only, not both hands. He had a single stroke roll that was faster than 1200 strokes per minute rate. I just refer you to West Side Story on Swingin New Big Band where you will hear an incredible single stroke short burst as a fill that also changes dynamics during that fill. You simply have to hear it.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 02-08-2018, 11:12 AM
bud7h4 bud7h4 is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 758
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
With art, you can't win.

There is no "greatest drummer of all time."

I have my favorites, just like you have yours.
I disagree for a couple of reasons.

Reason 1: Not all art can be equally measured for talent. Some art is purely an expression, requiring no actual technical ability (Yoko Ono "performance").
There can be no "best" expression, but there can be better/worse technical performances.

Painting and drumming are both art, but beyond a certain level, drumming requires tremendous physical ability similar to sports, and the mental training to do several things at once (and that's an understatement).

Reason 2: Just because we can't all agree on who the "best" is, doesn't mean that there is no best. We'll never know who the best is, that's true, but it's not because there is no best. It's because our opinions and tastes, among other factors, won't allow for a consensus.

Consider this: who is the better drummer, Jojo or me? (Obvious answer)
And if one can be better, then one can be the best.

Edit: Important to note that comparing drummers of different musical styles and genres can be futile. It's simply apples and oranges in many cases. What they're playing can be so different from one another that you might as well be comparing a guitarist to a bassist.

Last edited by bud7h4; 02-08-2018 at 11:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 02-08-2018, 03:27 PM
aydee aydee is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,418
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by philrudd View Post
Well, he's no Travis Barker. I don't know if Buddy had even ONE tattoo.
YEAH! ... and he cant dunk!

...
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 02-08-2018, 03:45 PM
PorkPieGuy's Avatar
PorkPieGuy PorkPieGuy is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,275
Default Re: Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bud7h4 View Post
I disagree for a couple of reasons.

Reason 1: Not all art can be equally measured for talent. Some art is purely an expression, requiring no actual technical ability (Yoko Ono "performance").
There can be no "best" expression, but there can be better/worse technical performances.

Painting and drumming are both art, but beyond a certain level, drumming requires tremendous physical ability similar to sports, and the mental training to do several things at once (and that's an understatement).

Reason 2: Just because we can't all agree on who the "best" is, doesn't mean that there is no best. We'll never know who the best is, that's true, but it's not because there is no best. It's because our opinions and tastes, among other factors, won't allow for a consensus.

Consider this: who is the better drummer, Jojo or me? (Obvious answer)
And if one can be better, then one can be the best.

Edit: Important to note that comparing drummers of different musical styles and genres can be futile. It's simply apples and oranges in many cases. What they're playing can be so different from one another that you might as well be comparing a guitarist to a bassist.

I think from my point of view, I'm perfectly comfortable with the idea that music isn't competitive. For example, maybe by a lot of people's standards Jojo may be a "better" drummer than you; however, you may play in such a way that I would much rather listen to you than Jojo. Maybe I like your style better, the way you construct fills, the way your stick comes off the snare. See, I don't care for jazz (you can take the boy out of the country...), and I don't really like drum solos either (maybe there are a couple of exceptions, but I don't know). I don't care for speed or weird time signatures. I like solid groove. Please keep in mind that I really do lack a lot of refinement.

If you want to consider him "the best," then awesome. If a lot of pros consider him "the best," then even better. Do I? Nope. Because I simply don't think that way. If a lot of people believe "a thing," this doesn't mean I have to...even if these people are influential in my life.
It's hard to measure "best" with anything relatively artistic. Speed and timing could be measured; however, it's difficult (if not impossible) to measure other things that have to do with music (well, in my opinion anyways).

I'm really glad that you are passionate about Buddy Rich, and I'm glad you enjoy listening to him. I really appreciate your input as well! You've given me a lot to think about.

Last edited by PorkPieGuy; 02-08-2018 at 04:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com