Help with jazz soloing and trading fours

My favorite saying that has always helped me is KISS which stands for "Keep It Simple, Stupid!", and it works. Instead of trying to show your blistering chops, go with something simple as, more often than not, that'll sound a heck of lot better. It is, after all, a band, not a solo project; you have to work together and listen to each other.

A nice improvisation device I like to use when trading fours is imitating lines which the instrument before me has played. Also, I agree with the various previous suggestions of repetition as well, as that gives your solo structure, and something the listener can relate to.

Anyway, that's my take on that, hope that helps, mate.
 
I've been practicing trading 4's with myself a bit lately


Is a good way to go about it to set the click playing quarters, and keeping four on the floor on bass and 2-4 constant, with 4 bars of keeping time on the ride with basic comping on snare, and then 4 bars of soloing?

I guess I'm wondering if its normal for drummers to keep a basic foot ostinato (eg. 4 on bass 2-4 on hi-hat) going throughout their 4 bars of soloing?
 
Ellx said:
I've been practicing trading 4's with myself a bit lately


Is a good way to go about it to set the click playing quarters, and keeping four on the floor on bass and 2-4 constant, with 4 bars of keeping time on the ride with basic comping on snare, and then 4 bars of soloing?

I guess I'm wondering if its normal for drummers to keep a basic foot ostinato (eg. 4 on bass 2-4 on hi-hat) going throughout their 4 bars of soloing?
Click to expand...

You don't HAVE to keep the ostinato while playing, but it does help the pulse in yours and other player's head.
 
tak22thegoat said:
You don't HAVE to keep the ostinato while playing, but it does help the pulse in yours and other player's head.
Click to expand...

ok ty. I guess I'll stick with practicing with this ostinato until I get a firmer grip on things and then I'll try some more obscure foot patterns, and then eventually soloing with 3-4 limbs


are soloed 4s generally in a triplety swung feel?
 
Ellx said:
ok ty. I guess I'll stick with practicing with this ostinato until I get a firmer grip on things and then I'll try some more obscure foot patterns, and then eventually soloing with 3-4 limbs


are soloed 4s generally in a triplety swung feel?
Click to expand...

No, they can be anything - they are a solo after all. As long as they fit the music well, anything applies really. Depends on your style..
 
Ellx said:
I've been practicing trading 4's with myself a bit lately


Is a good way to go about it to set the click playing quarters, and keeping four on the floor on bass and 2-4 constant, with 4 bars of keeping time on the ride with basic comping on snare, and then 4 bars of soloing?

I guess I'm wondering if its normal for drummers to keep a basic foot ostinato (eg. 4 on bass 2-4 on hi-hat) going throughout their 4 bars of soloing?
Click to expand...

I prefer to just keep the 2 and 4 on the hi-hat, and I would recommend this, as pretty soon you are going to want to throw your bass foot into the mix for your trades. With a little practice, I think you could work up to this pretty easily and it will pay off big time... trades with some bass drum are much more interesting and dynamic than trades with just your hands.

As far as the original question goes, I second The Art of Bop Drumming as a great source for "trade licks", but don't forget about Stick Control. Just choose any two bar phrase from the book and play it twice on the snare, especially the phrases that mix note values and contain multiple bounces. Then start moving the phrase around the kit onto the toms, kick , etc. Add rests in random places and see how it sounds.
 
Besides some useful things said, I feel is essential (after covering some basics) to transcribe drummers YOU LIKE to learn vocabulary and become the kind of drummer YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE.

You have to do a lot of listening and search for this "words" that interest you, to fully understand, incorporate, expand or whatever in your style...I mainly do that...


VIDEO 1 (Medium Tempo 8's): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqHhBTatT1c

VIDEO 2 (Up Tempo 12's) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6kGkGZuQtc&feature=related



Alex Sanguinetti (Valencia - Spain)
http://www.myspace.com/clasesdebateriaenvalencia
 
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Sing the melody of a jazz tune in your head while you play (or aloud if you can, such as in the Alan Dawson method). By doing this you will be playing off melodic motifs of the tune rather than thinking about the technical aspects of what you're playing. This can be done for trading 4's but it's most effective on full choruses. Try this with some different song forms, 32 bar AABA ("Satin Doll" is my personal choice for starters) and blues ("Blue Monk" is my choice). Any tune will work as long as you know the form.
 
Definitely do some listening. DEFINITELY do some transcribing. Learn Philly Joe Jones' solos when hes trading fours with Miles. Naturally, you'll start incorporating that into your own playing and be a better soloist overall. Sometimes I play his solos note for note in performance, nobody knows. If they do, they thank me for a the epic lick drop... You can't copyright drum licks

As far as staying in the form. Record yourself soloing one chorus at a time, then count along with the recording to check your work.
 
Just discovered this old thread. Lots of great advice.

Anyone have a favorite tune that features a great trading fours section?
 
oaklandrichie said:
Just discovered this old thread. Lots of great advice.

Anyone have a favorite tune that features a great trading fours section?
Click to expand...
Roy Haynes - Sneaking Around 2:35

I love Roy Haynes because all of his phrases are crisp and clean. He is also easy to transcribe for that reason!
 
Old thread but if any newcomers have the same question here are a few tips (that are possibly included in previous replies)

•If you're running out of ideas, then start your solo minimalistic. This will give you a lot of room from which to build your ideas. By starting with minimalism, stepping up to a new idea or level of intensity can be as simple as just adding a new accent to the motif you are playing.

•Sing the melody in your head.

•If they aren't already, ask your bandmates to keep some light chord changes going on beneath you.

•Consider the title/meaning of the song, lyrics if there are any, and the emotions that your bandmates put into their solos. Try to give yours some meaning too.

•Groove based approach (with embellishments) can always work.

•Try a basic solo without many rhythm changes but where you vary the dynamics a lot. Play all limbs quiet vs. loud, and also practice certain limbs quite with others louder.

•In regards to trading fours; Meditate on how music, and soloing, and especially jazz improv can be a conversational language. Think about how YOU respond in conversation when the person you're talking to says something:

funny
interesting
personal
melancholy
exciting
or asks you a question.

•Now find a way to respond and interact on the drums, and leave THEM with something to build from at the end of YOUR four.

•Build tension. And release.

•Play the unexpected as long as it isn't irrelevant to the music.

Hope this is helpful for someone.
 
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I find it helps to sing the melody of the song in your head, or the phrase the other soloist did.
 
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