Gibraltar Catapult

My concern with beater angle is that there is no cam so there is no adjustment to put the beater closer to the head when it is at rest.
You may get some of this with the Catapault by lowering the pedal beater, but then that may not be the sweet spot on your drum head, meaning it may be off center or depending on the size of the drum head, from 18 to 26 inches, you may end up with a short pedal to get the speed you want. You may be hitting 4 inches below center on a 26 inch drum.
 
Gruntersdad - that is so weird!!!

I just got the same email from him.....

I sent him a nice reply though - but you beat me too it posting the letter.
 
I would assume he has a lot of time and money invested in his pedal and wants to see it sell. Can't blame him for that. I'm not sure if he is a Gibraltar employee or sold them the exclusive rights, but I will give him an honest appraisal of his product should he decide to send me one, and I will post that and photos if he wishes. I have field tested fishing tackle and camera gear in the past and if he wants to trust me to do the same for him I would be more than happy to. He can have the rights to my photos and appraisal also if he wishes.
 
Gruntersdad, thanks for posting on that email on this thread, its turning out to be very informative reading on such an inovative piece of technology with, seemingly, a lot of flaws.

you may end up with a short pedal to get the speed you want. You may be hitting 4 inches below center on a 26 inch drum.

At the beater length i have it on at the moment, its exactly at the middle of my bass drum, and there is still a few inches off leeway.
I take on board what your saying about speed and length of the pedal, and that would be a sacrifice on an overlarge bass drum like mine, by missing the sweet spot.

Laying any bias on my part aside, i believe this pedal to be lagging slightly as opposed to normal strap, chain or direct drive pedals.
A Friend of mine, who is doing a degree in engineering pointed out to me is that the beater is being PUSHED towards the bass drum head, whereas on traditional pedals, the various drive systems are PULLING the beater towards the bass drum head, and as many opinions and the email above state, its a biomechanical advantage to the muscles in your leg.
Also i have noticed that the sound of the bass drum changes considerably when using this pedal.
While using my eliminator pedal, the sound is more sharp, punchy, whereas with the catapult is more baggy and loose sounding. I believe this to be caused by the sheer force of the pushing motion of the leg, as i play heel up. This is a technique fault on my part, but it does affect the overall sound nonetheless.

Hope this helps, anymore comments are appreciated.

x
 
Have you tried putting a beater from another pedal on this pedal. That wide flat surface intriques me into wondering if that is the reason for no punchy sound.
 
You are thinking of the beater that appears in most of the promotional pictures i am sure, the disk like beater?

The beater on the ACTUAL pedal is infact, the same beater that appears on the Intruder Series pedal, just a normal dual faced beater.

The promotional pictures are quite misleading in that respect.

x
 
So its half hard felt and half hard plastic. Thanks for that bit.
 
GRUNTERSDAD said:
I would assume he has a lot of time and money invested in his pedal and wants to see it sell. Can't blame him for that. I'm not sure if he is a Gibraltar employee or sold them the exclusive rights, but I will give him an honest appraisal of his product should he decide to send me one, and I will post that and photos if he wishes. I have field tested fishing tackle and camera gear in the past and if he wants to trust me to do the same for him I would be more than happy to. He can have the rights to my photos and appraisal also if he wishes.
Click to expand...

Same here.

But its not an excuse for a free pedal mind....
 
Yes it was a muscular skeletal joke with my name - well spotted!!!!
It is great to see the drumming community want to know more about innovation and design
In every sense, Gibraltar are an amazing Company that is willing to invent and design new equipment making untold possibilities in developing techniques for the Drumming community.
I will say that like all new things, in the beginning it needs to established if the product has merrit. I believe if a Compnay like Gibraltar get behind the product and continue to develop this, we will see a future Catapult with all sorts of variations.
I have many variations in mind for the design but discovered less is more.
Just so you know ,
The beater is not an integeral part of the pedals function. If you dont like it , change it to one that suits you. There are lots to choose from. I dont know why Gibraltar chose this large pancake beater but I tried one for myself only yesterday and did not like what it did for the rebound response and the volume of the bass drums. But its only a beater!!! Change it
How ever, they must have their reasons. I shall let you know .
A friend of mine George Vich holds the Guiness record for the fastest drum rolls etc...Played with Johnny Rabb here in Australia and has regularly involved himself with my design. He is the fastest heel up and down player I have experienced and his comments show that there are no limitations to the possibilities for dynamic precision control,speed and endurance. Other Pro drummers in Aus that like it are: Darren Farugia, David Jones, Andrew Gander ,Karl Lewis they all helped in my prototyping and are amazing proferssional players and teachers of this art.
Please understand, we have been using the prototype for 18 months now and have not had any problems.
I can seriously understand that some drummers feel that they cannot strike the drum hard or fast enough but I am speaking from experience and not to convince those to purchase.
The pedal plays so well when your flexor muscles begin to work as they should.
We tested the muscular control with MBS Fitness and results show an improvement to this group of muscles. I think we shal put a movie on youtube to show our progress with playing this pedal.
I can strike the drum so hard, I feel the head will break if I am not careful. Remember the force of your stike is directly proportional to the amount of load you can produce from your leg/ foot and that has nothing to do with spring tension , rebound or length of travel.
If you feel there would be an improvement to power by increasing the length of stroke - not really since the stroke length is determined by footboard height and placement. If the stroke was longer the footboard angle would increase and no one want a rediculous angled board.
Also the fact that there would be foot board length issues for that matter.
In prototyping, I made a longer stroke, shorter stroke, different beater angles. I had it tested by pro players until I came up with the right angles and lengths to have a NATURAL RESPONSE - no added acceleration or power.
I thought it is best to improve my playability and not use any outside influences or componentry to complicate what should be natural. The same way we use a drum stick - with no outside influence just you and the instrument.WE ALL LEARN ABOUT THE REBOUND OF A DRUM STICK AND LIFTING YOUR YOUR HAND . NOW TRY IT WITH YOUR FOOT. i FOUND IT EASY TO BURY THE BEATER BUT THEN QUICKLY LEARNED TO PLAY OFF THE REBOUND . WHAT A DIFFERENCE !
Isnt this what playing drums is about ? Being at one with your instrument and being able to express your self through experimentation and innovation.
I could build a pedal that plays accelerated or increased power but that does not offer true defined playing. I know its not for everyone however atleast there is now a choice in the mechanical aspects.
For those interested in developing the control (as we do with our hands), I can only suggest to go to your store and test it over and over. Not 10 sec tapping convinced it has no power and Lags!
How can it lag? It has direct motion nothing in between. If the rebound is not what you expect then work on those muscles. You have to learn not to bury your foot and prevent the rebound from responding naturally fast.
I hope this is true to its readers as I intended no disillusion about it being better or worse and offer my honest opinion from an engineering, anotomical and drumming background.

All the Best and Keep On Drumming!
If you have any suggestions email Gibraltar they are ready to listen....
I suggest if you want to write a review after testing a pedal, contact Gibraltar Hardware as I have no sample to offer sorry.





GRUNTERSDAD said:
and this was my reply...

Thanks for your email. By reading the other forum members impressions of your pedal and from what I can tell from the photos, I still have issues with the design. I play heel down and not heel up so this pedal would work for me in this regard. I don't think it would work as well nor be as fast for the heel up players since you can't adjust the amount of travel by adjusting the beater angle. That being said I don't carry a big enough wallet to afford to experiment with a new design, but if you cared to send me one, on loan, for a period of time, decided by you, I will be glad to write a truthful review of my findings and return the pedal. I will post my findings in the Drummerworld forum which has over 12,000 members so that all can benefit from my trial.

Thanks,
Johnny Getz
Click to expand...
 
Well Mark as I previously stated I don't have the funds to buy and test your pedal, so I will rely on those that wish to give it a chance. As someone who likes to dabble with products myself, I wish you nothing but success in this endeavor and as a drummer with some Gibraltar hardware pieces that are top notch, I am sure that Gibraltar has faith in the product and I guess only time will tell. Thanks for your time and for allowing me to post your email in this forum and for your own post. Now lets go throw some shrimp on the barbie. Peace.

Johnny G
 
I think that's very cool. That the cat who invented the pedal is reading this forum, taking note of what people say/think, and then even takes the time to post here himself.
 
What better source for manufacturers to find out what drummers want and what they think of their products. Television shows are made and broken by 1200 viewers Neilson raters, and here is an audience of 12000 or so users..Companies pay big money for information like this.
 
harryconway said:
Did you make any money off this? I didn't get paid! Maybe we just don't know the right people.
Click to expand...

Lol.

Reading this forum is the best source of free information of what drummers think of products.

Thats why we dont get paid......
 
You have to learn not to bury your foot and prevent the rebound from responding naturally fast.

We would have to do a little survey here to see how many drummers 'bury their foot' into the bass drum head, it seems that's going to be the market for Catapult. (BTW Mark, being from OZ, did you think of naming it 'boomerang' )?

Kit drumming is all about balance. When your sitting on a stool it doesn't matter if your high, low, or at knee level, your going to balance your body with one of your feet.

People who pull the beater off the bass drum head are going will have to balance with their opposite foot and that's usually the hi hat.

I myself bury the beater in the bass head. This allows me to play my hi hat with my other foot, which is critical to my playing. If my hi hat isn't keeping time (1/4 or 1/2 notes, sometimes 8's), I feel like Im not playing the drums. Involving all my limbs creates a 'free'er' feeling, a sense of completeness, every appendage is contributing to the keeping process with a sound. In order for me to let the beater come off the bass head, I would need to balance with my HH foot killing the process. I play 90% heel up.

If you watch drummers play (check out You Tube as an example), the ones that don't bury their bass drum beaters do not keep time with their foot on the hi hat, this is exclusively true when the person is playing 'heel up'. Not many drummers play the HH constantly-in-time while doing fills.

What better source for manufacturers to find out what drummers want and what they think of their products. Television shows are made and broken by 1200 viewers Neilson raters, and here is an audience of 12000 or so users..Companies pay big money for information like this.

People would be surprised what and how many drum co's are reading this and other forums.

It's nice to see Gibby taking a chance on new stuff. With the market what it is, or better yet, 'what it's become' I still see Catapult's having a hard time finding home's and getting work. Better start pumping up the artist roster. A You Tube vid may convince some buyers along with a name pro using one on tour and getting it seen in their set up in the rags. As drummers we pretty much feel insulted when we read a drum rags review of stuff submitted by the same people who pay the wage, for the most part, these reviews are always biased.
 
Les Ismore said:
You have to learn not to bury your foot and prevent the rebound from responding naturally fast.

We would have to do a little survey here to see how many drummers 'bury their foot' into the bass drum head, it seems that's going to be the market for Catapult. (BTW Mark, being from OZ, did you think of naming it 'boomerang' )?

Kit drumming is all about balance. When your sitting on a stool it doesn't matter if your high, low, or at knee level, your going to balance your body with one of your feet.

People who pull the beater off the bass drum head are going will have to balance with their opposite foot and that's usually the hi hat.

I myself bury the beater in the bass head. This allows me to play my hi hat with my other foot, which is critical to my playing. If my hi hat isn't keeping time (1/4 or 1/2 notes, sometimes 8's), I feel like Im not playing the drums. Involving all my limbs creates a 'free'er' feeling, a sense of completeness, every appendage is contributing to the keeping process with a sound. In order for me to let the beater come off the bass head, I would need to balance with my HH foot killing the process. I play 90% heel up.

If you watch drummers play (check out You Tube as an example), the ones that don't bury their bass drum beaters do not keep time with their foot on the hi hat, this is exclusively true when the person is playing 'heel up'. Not many drummers play the HH constantly-in-time while doing fills.

What better source for manufacturers to find out what drummers want and what they think of their products. Television shows are made and broken by 1200 viewers Neilson raters, and here is an audience of 12000 or so users..Companies pay big money for information like this.

People would be surprised what and how many drum co's are reading this and other forums.

It's nice to see Gibby taking a chance on new stuff. With the market what it is, or better yet, 'what it's become' I still see Catapult's having a hard time finding home's and getting work. Better start pumping up the artist roster. A You Tube vid may convince some buyers along with a name pro using one on tour and getting it seen in their set up in the rags. As drummers we pretty much feel insulted when we read a drum rags review of stuff submitted by the same people who pay the wage, for the most part, these reviews are always biased.
Click to expand...

You can unbury the beater and still keep time with the hi-hat. Many drummers do this, you just have to learn how. It's not impossible.
 
You can unbury the beater and still keep time with the hi-hat. Many drummers do this, you just have to learn how. It's not impossible.

Quote us a pro example, we'll check it out on You Tube. Not impossible, though very uncomfortable, when you lift both feet off the pedals at the same time, you 'fall' either forward or backward depending how you sit on the stool.
 
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