Learning double stroke roll

S

Siftyzod

Member
Hi there
i am pretty much just started learning drums im 36 and have a drum teacher
but here is my question
last week i seen my teacher playing something using double strokes
when i asked about learning this he said i dont and wont have the skills to learn it as im to old to try and learn that and stick to the basics as trying to learn the double stroke will never work and i will end up giving up lessons
so what im wanting to know is i have started to practice it from what i have learned on youtube and they dont explain as u get faster do u just let the stick bounce without fingers or do ur fingers flick the stick still...
it is kind of annoying not knowing anything about this and i know my tutor wont teach me all he will teach me is basic rock as he said being older u are not going to learn as much so stick to the easy stuff and dont expect to be "really good" just average

so any help here would be good i want to prove this jerk off wrong if i can or is he actually right?? and learn only the basics and settle for that
does anyone know a person who has learnt being older and mastered this ???
 
What basis does this guy have for his uncredible claims? Of course you can learn double-strokes, and you can become a GREAT drummer! You might not be able to regain any twitch reflexes that you may have lost along the way due to non-cultivation (with the human body, if you don't use it, you lose it), but there's no way that you can't learn to do a fast, fluid, double-stroke roll.

Don't bounce the sticks. The double-stroke roll is done with 2 strokes. That's why it's called "double stroke". Use two wrist strokes while keeping your grip relaxed but sturdy, keeping your fingers on the stick at all times (although not clenching on the stick--just kinda "keeping tabs" on it, and aiding the wrists in the stroke). Over time (read: months, maybe years), as your speed builds, you will learn to utilize both your wrists and fingers in the execution of the double stroke, but don't concern yourself with this until you max out your double strokes at about 160, give or take. Just keep practicing consistently, and keep your doubles EVEN. If you take the "quick road" and try to learn how to bounce your doubles, they will never sound even, and it will take even longer to learn how to do them correctly as double strokes so that they sound even.
 
Hi thanks for your reply
im pretty sure if i dont break away from lessons im never going to learn anything ..
so it would be nice to get a step by step on building up speed for singles and doubles...
when i use my wrist they get sore and hurt for a couple of day...
i can bounce the stick in my fingers without moving my wrist but they can only move so fast before thats it...
i heard to use a pillow but cant see how that will help...or what benefit that would have except cause wrist pain...
do u think i should just try and play them how ever are they done like a buzz roll????
can u get away with playing them like a buzz but only let it bounce once???
im figuring that is how it is done and high speed
 
open rolls (double strokes) are pretty easy once you get the hang of them and have nothing to do with being young or old. one thing i wished i did for mine early on is to accent the second stroke (rR lL rR lL rR lL). this will make your rolls cleaner/more even and more useful once you get up to speed. i used to just let the sticks bounce off the head and it worked but there was no power and i couldnt apply it to the drum set. but my teacher taught me how to accent the second stroke and it was pretty hard to break my old habbit, but once i did, it opened up a lot of new possibilities for solos and everything. practice on something with little or no rebound like a pillow. then once you get on a real drum, it will come a lot easier and the rebound will do a lot of the work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz1oUOtla9w

Jim Chapin knew everything. and he was old.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yNb-kUPwMI&

once you get open rolls down, check out the Moeller technique. that will make your singles much faster. there is actually a huge difference once you learn it.


edit: playing on a pillow gets your muscles used to the motion. same idea as a donut on a baseball bat (sort of). dont just let them bounce, you'll regret it later on. and practice them on the set around the drums. and loud too. digging into the head helps make them cleaner/articulate.

by the way, i would ditch that teacher. youtube can teach you just as well for free. once you know what you want to play and you know your style, and you're serious about drumming, then a teacher is extremely helpful (if hes good) and worth the money (if hes good).
 
Siftyzod said:
last week i seen my teacher playing something using double strokes
when i asked about learning this he said i dont and wont have the skills to learn it as im to old to try and learn that and stick to the basics as trying to learn the double stroke will never work and i will end up giving up lessons


he said being older u are not going to learn as much so stick to the easy stuff and dont expect to be "really good" just average
Click to expand...

:l
People never cease to amaze me.

Dear friend, here's my advice:

1) GET A NEW TEACHER.

Then we'll talk about double strokes and whatever you want.

Don't for one second believe all the atrocities he said. Of course you CAN learn how to play double strokes.
God, what an idiot.

Seriously, get a new teacher.

Cheers.
 
diegobxr said:
:l
People never cease to amaze me.

Dear friend, here's my advice:

1) GET A NEW TEACHER.

Then we'll talk about double strokes and whatever you want.

Don't for one second believe all the atrocities he said. Of course you CAN learn how to play double strokes.
God, what an idiot.

Seriously, get a new teacher.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

Yes! +1

Heck, +1,000,000!!!

I wouldn't go out of my way to ruin this guy's life, but definitely recommend people AWAY from him as a drum teacher if the topic comes up. That's just unacceptable!
 
diegobxr said:
:l
People never cease to amaze me.

Dear friend, here's my advice:

1) GET A NEW TEACHER.

Then we'll talk about double strokes and whatever you want.

Don't for one second believe all the atrocities he said. Of course you CAN learn how to play double strokes.
God, what an idiot.

Seriously, get a new teacher.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

new drum teacher not much of a choice right now in feb we got blasted with a huge earthquake ppl lost homes etc and left town so its get what you can and i have been playing or trying to play for 2 years and play like a first timer on the kit....
 
Siftyzod said:
do u think i should just try and play them how ever are they done like a buzz roll????
can u get away with playing them like a buzz but only let it bounce once???
im figuring that is how it is done and high speed
Click to expand...

Nope. Well, you ***can***, but it won't sound even. You can build up as much speed as you'll EVER need with just your wrists and fingers. Plus, if you try to do the bounce on different surfaces besides the snare, you'll hear just how uneven it is.

Like I said before, learn it the correct way the first time. I can't describe to you how hard it is to unlearn "bouncing your doubles" when trying to learn the double stroke roll...
 
caddywumpus said:
I can't describe to you how hard it is to unlearn "bouncing your doubles" when trying to learn the double stroke roll...
Click to expand...

It took me forever and I still kind of suck at it. I don't know if this is true for anyone else but if you can play clean double strokes with brushes, you can play clean(er) double strokes with anything.
 
First, without reading any of the other posts, I will say DUMP THIS CLOWN. You are not too old to learn to play double stroke rolls. He wants you to stick to the basics. Guess what a double stroke roll is as basic as it gets. It will take some time to get it up to speed but it is not impossible. I cannot say this strongly enough. Send this guy packing. You are wasting your money.

Read this please .http://www.howtoplaydrums.com/double-stroke-roll/ I play my double strokes using a bounce method as it is one method that works and if you want to get very fast as double stroke rolls I would suggest giving it a try. Tapping twice with your wrist will not let you play as fast as the bounce roll. I learned this method back in 1962. I am old and still do very fast double stroke rolls.
 
JMalriat said:
It took me forever and I still kind of suck at it. I don't know if this is true for anyone else but if you can play clean double strokes with brushes, you can play clean(er) double strokes with anything.
Click to expand...

That goes for ALL of the rudiments. It's kind of like playing on a pillow, in some respects. It's not so much about eliminating the dependency on rebound, but it really forces you to evaluate the efficiency of your strokes.

Fortunately for me, I was only bouncing my doubles for a couple of weeks before my professor saw me do it and reprimanded me...
 
ok so youtube is good for learning the basics but nothing about learning speed for anything i cant get my fingers to move ffast so im guessing its as fast as i can with wrists...i have set 2 goals before the end of the year if i dont reach those goals drumming is over for me...i cant even play a fill around the kit wiithout messing it up....and i practice it slow everyday and still not gotten it any faster i tried learning a tripet RL kick and cant get that any faster than really slow i talked to a guy on skype who gives tips and advice on there and he only had 10mins to spare and no other time to really talk
so if anyone here can help please do and if u advise i should give it up now i think i will....any advice/
 
Drumming is about having fun. setting goals is good but if your going to quit just because you cant reach a certain goal, you might as well stop now and focus on other things.
oh yeah...fire your instuctor!!!
 
drumphile said:
Drumming is about having fun. setting goals is good but if your going to quit just because you cant reach a certain goal, you might as well stop now and focus on other things.
oh yeah...fire your instuctor!!!
Click to expand...

lol i willl not be going back but buggered if i know how to learn from here
i know its about having fun but to have fun you hve to be able to do something to have fun...i can play a good triplet if that counts lol
 
Siftyzod said:
ok so youtube is good for learning the basics but nothing about learning speed for anything i cant get my fingers to move ffast so im guessing its as fast as i can with wrists...i have set 2 goals before the end of the year if i dont reach those goals drumming is over for me...i cant even play a fill around the kit wiithout messing it up....and i practice it slow everyday and still not gotten it any faster i tried learning a tripet RL kick and cant get that any faster than really slow i talked to a guy on skype who gives tips and advice on there and he only had 10mins to spare and no other time to really talk
so if anyone here can help please do and if u advise i should give it up now i think i will....any advice/
Click to expand...

1. Your wrists/hands/fingers will learn to behave once you reign them in. It takes years. Even when you have some level of control, and can make your sticks do SOME of the things you want them to do, they haven't reached their full potential. You've been drumming for a couple of years you say? Keep at it. There's no way that you can be "there" yet.

2. 2 goals for the end of the year? How about setting some reasonable short-term goals, work towards them, and if you don't achieve them in the timeframe you set up, you motivate yourself to keep working towards them. How about THIS: Set your "make-or-break" goals for TEN years down the road. If you don't reach them by then, maybe then you'll be wise enough to see that not being able to do everything on the drum set isn't the end of the world, and drumming has so much more to offer.

3. Give up now? Only you can make that choice. Don't drag us into it. Do you enjoy it? Does it challenge you? Do you enjoy the challenge? Do you enjoy music? If it feels like a waste of time to you because you don't enjoy some aspect of it, by all means, give up. If it's frustrating to you because you can't pull off licks that are outside of your current physical capabilities, guess what?--welcome to drumming!

4. Some of the greatest words of advice about drumming: "Don't worry about speed. Speed will come. Work on accuracy."
 
he told you you could never learn the double stroke roll?

how does he expect you to play drums?

get a new teacher ...this guy sounds like a tool
 
Siftyzod said:
when i asked about learning this he said i dont and wont have the skills to learn it as im to old to try and learn that and stick to the basics as trying to learn the double stroke will never work and i will end up giving up lessons
Click to expand...

Well, they say if you live long enough you get to hear everything. I guess I just have.

What a total toss. Tell me you're NOT paying this bloke.


caddywumpus said:
Some of the greatest words of advice about drumming: "Don't worry about speed. Speed will come. Work on accuracy."
Click to expand...

Indeed. Control is paramount. Sloppy playing at high speed is still just sloppy playing.
 
You're really giving money to a guy that tells you that you can't and won't ever be able to do something?

Definitely get a new teacher. Even if it's an internet thing for right now. You need a teacher who will encourage you and be willing to teach you anything you want to learn.
 
Your teacher is an idiot. If you can't find another teacher in your area, take lessons over the internet. Bill Bachman here gives Skype lessons and I think a few others do as well. If you're going to pay for lessons, you owe it to yourself to get someone who knows what they're doing and can help you get better, not make excuses for why he can't teach you anything.
 
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