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  #41  
Old 03-05-2013, 05:18 PM
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longgun longgun is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

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Originally Posted by alparrott View Post
I do crank down my china cymbals, but I've never had any issues with doing so.
........me too............never cracked one yet........knock on wood
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  #42  
Old 03-05-2013, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

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Originally Posted by Mikecore View Post
Bozzio keeps his plates pretty tight, but he really has to. With that many cymbals that close together, one hit would set the whole thing off without tight pad spacing. Besides, Radias were designed to be short on sustain, so a little choking probably helps.
I think bozzio is a... special case, haha. :)
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  #43  
Old 03-05-2013, 08:20 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

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Originally Posted by Mikecore View Post
Bozzio keeps his plates pretty tight, but he really has to. With that many cymbals that close together, one hit would set the whole thing off without tight pad spacing. Besides, Radias were designed to be short on sustain, so a little choking probably helps.
It would be interesting to see if you could produce a "domino" effect, wherein you hit one cymbal on the kit really hard, and it sets off a number of other cymbals by hitting them. I bet if you got creative with cymbal types, you could make a lot of noise!
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  #44  
Old 03-05-2013, 09:12 PM
Otto Otto is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

There is no "right" and "wrong" about how tight you like your cymbals mounted.

I like some with faster decay/tighter and some open/looser.

depends.....

In the end...your touch in lifting the sound off the cymbal can only reach a crossover of amplitude and decay based on the size/thickness of the cymbal without adding another element.(without keeping the stick on the cymbal...which is a distictly different sound than a tighter mount.)

note that I have never broken a cymbal due to having it tight on the stand....but have had a crack form due to accidental equipment placement(an amp got set on it).

Proper felting and there is no real issue unless you are a cave-person smashing with a club.
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  #45  
Old 03-05-2013, 10:44 PM
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Anduin Anduin is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

Edited from Sabian's web site (http://www.sabian.com/en/faqs):

"How Can I Avoid Cracking A Cymbal?

•Use a cymbal sleeve and small felts (top and bottom) to protect your cymbal from damaging metal-on-metal contact with the stand.

•Do not over-tighten the wing nut on the stand; let the cymbal move. Too tight and the cymbal will 'choke' and vibrations -- unable to release anywhere -- may crack the metal."
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  #46  
Old 03-05-2013, 11:10 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

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Originally Posted by Anduin View Post
Edited from Sabian's web site (http://www.sabian.com/en/faqs):

"How Can I Avoid Cracking A Cymbal?

•Use a cymbal sleeve and small felts (top and bottom) to protect your cymbal from damaging metal-on-metal contact with the stand.

•Do not over-tighten the wing nut on the stand; let the cymbal move. Too tight and the cymbal will 'choke' and vibrations -- unable to release anywhere -- may crack the metal."
Indeed, where is this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpoanOlb3-w) vibration supposed to go if the cymbal is clamped to the stand?
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  #47  
Old 03-06-2013, 06:08 AM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
It would be interesting to see if you could produce a "domino" effect, wherein you hit one cymbal on the kit really hard, and it sets off a number of other cymbals by hitting them.
Bob Gatzen had sort of a similar idea, I'm sure you could expand that effect to a whole rack of 'em!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
There is no "right" and "wrong" about how tight you like your cymbals mounted.
For heavy rock drummers, though... the vibrations do matter, especially with thinner cymbals. I'm sure their finances allow him to break cymbals, but really, who wants to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by topgun2021 View Post
Indeed, where is this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpoanOlb3-w) vibration supposed to go if the cymbal is clamped to the stand?
RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE!! I don't that guy has good technique, though, or he wouldn't have just tried to "freight train" that cymbal...
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  #48  
Old 03-06-2013, 02:22 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

Speaking of breaking cymbals - do drummers bring spares out on tour? I would think there are places in this world where you're not able to obtain specific cymbals on a moment's notice. So if they wrecked a cymbal one night on tour, could they get a replacement by the next day?
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  #49  
Old 03-06-2013, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

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Originally Posted by inneedofgrace View Post
Speaking of breaking cymbals - do drummers bring spares out on tour? I would think there are places in this world where you're not able to obtain specific cymbals on a moment's notice. So if they wrecked a cymbal one night on tour, could they get a replacement by the next day?
I'm sure if they can afford it, they will just go to a drum shop and buy one the next day or already have back ups. If they endorse, they probably could get one however the contract states this scenario would happen.

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of touring drummers do not have either of the above going for them, and probably just cry and continue the tour without that cymbal.
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  #50  
Old 03-06-2013, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

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Originally Posted by inneedofgrace View Post
Speaking of breaking cymbals - do drummers bring spares out on tour? I would think there are places in this world where you're not able to obtain specific cymbals on a moment's notice. So if they wrecked a cymbal one night on tour, could they get a replacement by the next day?
I always bring an extra everything out on the road

extra pedal, set of heads, snare, cymbal or two, a couple stands ......they all stay packed away in the trailer and are there if I need them.

I never once had to dip into the "story box" as I call it .......but I'd rather all that stuff be there if I need it than be stuck in Corpus Christi TX where you'd be hard pressed to find an open gas station or restaurant let alone a music store when you need a bass drum head

no offense to anyone who lives in Corpus Christi ....but every time I have been there it seemed like a boarded up ghost town
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  #51  
Old 03-06-2013, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

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Originally Posted by Anthony Amodeo View Post
but I'd rather all that stuff be there if I need it than be stuck in Corpus Christi TX where you'd be hard pressed to find an open gas station or restaurant let alone a music store when you need a bass drum head

no offense to anyone who lives in Corpus Christi ....but every time I have been there it seemed like a boarded up ghost town
It's true. I live about 2 hours south of Corpus but I understand what you mean. I don't see this area mentioned very often.

I don't use top felts except when I use an upside down china so I don't have to worry about tight cymbals. Most of my cymbal arms are DW, and as Audiotech mentioned, their design is great.

I'm the same with extras. Occasionally when I was on the road I carried extras for my extras. If I knew I was going to be out for a while I would make sure I had 3-4 snares and a couple of back up pedals for kick and HH. Heads, sticks, tape and the like are a no brainer. Only had to use a back up kick pedal once though. It was a great mind reliever to know I had anything I could possibly need to gig.
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  #52  
Old 03-06-2013, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

I use vater slick nuts in leiu of wing nuts. Much quicker to put on and take off. The only thing that annoys me is when taking them off, I pull off the nut, grab the cymbal and slide it off with the sleeve coming along. I have to be careful or the sleeve will fall off, then I gotta pick it up, and the whole saving time idea is gone.

As far as tightening, my crashes are semi-loose with just enough swing to sustain a bit. The problem I had in the past is when they were really loose, they would still be swinging when I go to hit them again, they're not exactly where I thought they would be. So I would miss or hit off target a little.....
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  #53  
Old 03-08-2013, 08:27 PM
Otto Otto is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

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Originally Posted by abapicaltaenia View Post
For heavy rock drummers, though... the vibrations do matter, especially with thinner cymbals. I'm sure their finances allow him to break cymbals, but really, who wants to?
Dosen't make a tightly mounted thin cymbal wrong.

It makes the application of to much force to the cymbal wrong...regardless of musical genre.
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  #54  
Old 03-08-2013, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

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Originally Posted by inneedofgrace View Post
Speaking of breaking cymbals - do drummers bring spares out on tour?
I saw Buddy Rich years ago (obviously), and he broke a crash mid-tune. At the end of the song he was clearly trying to get his tech’s attention to replace the cymbal, but the guy was nowhere in sight. Buddy was PISSED! And then he launched into the next song.
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  #55  
Old 03-09-2013, 12:29 AM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

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Originally Posted by Anduin View Post
I saw Buddy Rich years ago (obviously), and he broke a crash mid-tune. At the end of the song he was clearly trying to get his tech’s attention to replace the cymbal, but the guy was nowhere in sight. Buddy was PISSED! And then he launched into the next song.
I know for a fact that Dale, Riches drum tech through most of the seventies, had to sit just feet behind Buddys riser when he was playing.

Dennis
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  #56  
Old 03-09-2013, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

If i'm using the kit at home I dont use top felts / wingnuts at all.... all my stands the sleeve is located so it goes through the base of the cymbal...not top down....so plenty of movement but no keyholing
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  #57  
Old 09-28-2016, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

What about for a china cymbal though? If you check out Luke Holland's new video on Youtube where he was playing some live songs you can see that his crashes move nicely but his china cymbals are relatively tight.

I use the gromball and cymbal chief so my cymbals basically "move however the hell they want" lol and sometimes it's hard to choke my china because it moves an INSANE amount.
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  #58  
Old 09-28-2016, 07:23 PM
tcspears tcspears is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

I can't imagine why they would do that. I don't even use wing nuts, I just put a plastic tip on the cymbal stand, and put the cymbal on...

Ultimately, I'd like to believe that cymbal height and angle are all personal preference, and I guess tightness would be too, but it seems like it would choke the cymbal sound, and limit the amount of sounds you can get out of a cymbal.


EDIT: I just realized that someone revived this thread from 3 years ago...

Last edited by tcspears; 09-28-2016 at 08:53 PM.
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  #59  
Old 09-28-2016, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

I tighten down my ride a fair bit to limit it's movement. My crashes are by no means tightened down, but I can't do the no felt, no wing nut thing because they just move way too much for my liking. My top hat is tightened just barely to the point that there is no slippage in the clutch when I move the footboard.
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  #60  
Old 09-28-2016, 11:27 PM
SmoothOperator SmoothOperator is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

I am proponent of tight cymbals. They "open up" faster at lower dynamics. It's not for all cymbals, but I definetly clamp China cymbals, and I have a big ride that sounds one dimensional unless it gets clamped. My theory is that cymbals actually need to flex around the bell. If a tight cymbal is permitted to swing freely, it'll pretty much make the same sound no matter how you hit it.
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  #61  
Old 09-29-2016, 04:35 AM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

I use the Sonor 'clothes peg' style cymbal toppers - threaded inside for adjusting, but can be removed in a second by squeezing the top. I tried the Vater one - didn't like it - it kept slipping, or being too hard to get on and off.

I have soft felts on top, lightly resting in the top of the cymbal to help it return to position after a crash.

I find that a 1" felt doesn't take up any cymbal real estate - I don't play on the inner 1/2".
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  #62  
Old 09-29-2016, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

I keep mine as loose as possible, prefer the feeling/response from the cymbals. Half the time I wont use wignuts. I do use quite heavy cymbals mostly though so that probably has something to do with it.

I've always been under the impression that tightening them too much increases the cymbals from cracking, although I don't have any personal experience on this.
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  #63  
Old 09-29-2016, 01:08 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

This video says it all, and Im not taking a chance at cracking a $300 + cymbal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGLjGRTKQWE
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  #64  
Old 09-29-2016, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

Only use bottom felts, like a big open sound. Still looking for some T toppers from somewhere.

Last time I saw Mike Portnoy with DT his crashes were that tight they didn't move and sounded awful.
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  #65  
Old 09-29-2016, 05:10 PM
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Default Re: Cymbal Tightening

I use bottom felts with a sleeve and wingnut. The sleeve is tall enough that the cymbal and the wingnut won't come into contact, but if they do touch the wingnut is there to keep the cymbal from flying off the stand.
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