Coordination Exercises

SharkyBait911

Senior Member
Hey Everyone !

I used the search tool of the forum and it didn't seem to work so I'm sorry if this has been asked already.

I talked to my old drum teacher and he says once you get to a certain point in your drumming life line you need to devote a certain amount of you time on 4 way coordination.

I have been at this point for a while and i haven't found any really good exercises that develop my 4 way coordination, so this is were you guys come in, i want to know your personal experience on this and if you have got any favorite exercises for advanced 4 way coordination !

Thank you !

Tris
 
I've been using the Carmine Appice Realistic Rock book and working on the variations of the beats (the typical 1/8 note ride beats in the first 10 or so pages) as-described on the first page.

The variations are something like:

1. play ride/hh as written (1/8s)
2. play as written opposite hands (open handed)
3. play ride/hh as 1/4 notes on the beat
4. same as 3 open handed
5. play ride/hh as 1/4 notes on the &
6. same as 5 open handed

A. 1/4 note hh chick on the beat
B. 1/4 note hh chick on the &
C. steady 1/8 hh chick

so you then put the 1-6 together with the A-C... so variation 1A is 1/8 ride with 1/4 note hh chick on the beat.

I've only really concentrated on 1A so far. I started on 1B last night. I pulled out all the 1As that were especially challenging to me and put them in "daily practice" sheet. I'll do the same with the 1Bs and the others once I get through them.
 
I'm quite a new drummer, and I've always been a bit confused about what people mean when they say '4-way coordination'. How entwined is this idea of 4-way coordination with the idea of being able to conceive of a musical idea and express it spontaneously for each limb?

For example, my idea for ultimate 4-way independence is for the drummer at any given time to think up a different pattern for each limb, and then carry that pattern out spontaneously right then and there, each limb doing something different!

Am I carrying this too far? Or is it that when people say they have achieved 4-way independence, they just mean that they can execute a different pattern on each limb, regardless of whether it was a spontaneous decision or not? This seems to me to sidestep the crux of the idea of 'independence', because memorizing a pre-conceived combination of patterns for each limb and then executing it seems a lot simpler than being able to spontaneously command your limbs to do something different independently of eachother.

I hope that makes sense, perhaps I am overthinking things. It's just that the concept of being able to conceive and express simultaneous drum patterns for each limb seems such a remote possibility for me at my present stage of drumming :) It's almost like thinking 4 different thoughts at once!

Or perhaps true 4-way independence is really as difficult as I envision, and is one of those ultimate goals we strive for as drummers.

Edit:
I truly apologize to SharkyBait if this question derails the topic at hand, perhaps I should have created a new thread. Please dear reply-ers, respond to SharkyBait's original question before my own!
 
I truly apologize to SharkyBait if this question derails the topic at hand, perhaps I should have created a new thread. Please dear reply-ers, respond to SharkyBait's original question before my own!

haha, Don't worry there is nothing to be sorry about this is what a forum is for !

I think the point you mad is very valid, anyone can practice a certain exercise over again and eventually get it right though muscle memory, so i think being able to, as you put it 'spontaneously' geting your limbs playing different patterns over each other at the same time is the true meaning of 4 way coordination.

So (taking it back to original question) is there any books/exercises that enhance on that instead of just having exercise after exercise that is just slightly changing so you learn it by muscle memory instead of having true 4 way coordination.

Thanks for replies !

Tris
 
I like the classic book actually entitled "4-way-coordination".

Other than that, a good exercise is always to play an ostinato with one, two or three limbs, and read a rhythmic text with the remaining limb. A simple example would be playing a rock beat on the ride, keeping quarters with the left foot on the hihat and reading a page from "Syncopation" with the bass drum.

Or another famous one: Play a baiao samba pattern with your feet, and play various note values, patterns, rudiments, or other things with your hands on the snare.
 
I'm quite a new drummer, and I've always been a bit confused about what people mean when they say '4-way coordination'. How entwined is this idea of 4-way coordination with the idea of being able to conceive of a musical idea and express it spontaneously for each limb?

For example, my idea for ultimate 4-way independence is for the drummer at any given time to think up a different pattern for each limb, and then carry that pattern out spontaneously right then and there, each limb doing something different!

Am I carrying this too far? Or is it that when people say they have achieved 4-way independence, they just mean that they can execute a different pattern on each limb, regardless of whether it was a spontaneous decision or not? This seems to me to sidestep the crux of the idea of 'independence', because memorizing a pre-conceived combination of patterns for each limb and then executing it seems a lot simpler than being able to spontaneously command your limbs to do something different independently of eachother.

I hope that makes sense, perhaps I am overthinking things. It's just that the concept of being able to conceive and express simultaneous drum patterns for each limb seems such a remote possibility for me at my present stage of drumming :) It's almost like thinking 4 different thoughts at once!

Or perhaps true 4-way independence is really as difficult as I envision, and is one of those ultimate goals we strive for as drummers.

Edit:
I truly apologize to SharkyBait if this question derails the topic at hand, perhaps I should have created a new thread. Please dear reply-ers, respond to SharkyBait's original question before my own!


I fully understand what you mean. Here's my take, you have to train your 4 way coordination back & forth with "pre-conceived combination" (consider them as the 4 limb rudiments) to fully reach the complete limb independance. You have to put dedication and time but at the end of the road all those exercise will give you possibilities to express all your spontaneous musical potential.


Here a series of some simple exercises, yes really simple but practice them seriously and work them with variation and work them in context of song (just for the thrill of it) and you'll soon notice an improvement in your limb coordination & independence.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=DAF5A3F145FAE2AE
 
Hey Everyone !

I used the search tool of the forum and it didn't seem to work so I'm sorry if this has been asked already.

I talked to my old drum teacher and he says once you get to a certain point in your drumming life line you need to devote a certain amount of you time on 4 way coordination.

I have been at this point for a while and i haven't found any really good exercises that develop my 4 way coordination, so this is were you guys come in, i want to know your personal experience on this and if you have got any favorite exercises for advanced 4 way coordination !

Thank you !

Tris

I agree with your drum teacher! :)

And I also agree that good exercises are hard to find. I really like Dennis' exercises; they are a great place to start. They look deceptively easy to play, but they're not.

The phrase 4-Way Coordination is somewhat misleading. In the vast majority of drumset playing, most drummers are performing a certain combination on three limbs, and then improvising with the remaining limb. Or, we play a two-limb pattern, and improvise with the remaining two limbs. It is not easy to learn these approaches, and it usually requires a good knowledge of rhythmic notation, so don't be afraid to ask your teacher for help. Once you do begin learning this way, you'll notice immediately that rock beats and fills seem easier to manage!

There are two main areas of study when concerned with this type of coordination: jazz/swing and rock. You should begin studying both at the same time.

In a jazz/swing context, I recommend The Art of Bop Drumming by John RIley.
http://www.amazon.com/Drumming-Book-Manhattan-Music-Publications/dp/089898890X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271446088&sr=1-1

In a rock context, I recommend Time Functioning Patterns by Gary Chaffee.
http://www.amazon.com/Time-Functioning-Patterns-Gary-Chaffee/dp/0769234771/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271446173&sr=1-1

Another way to think about 4-way coordination is what Swiss Matthias mentions, where you play a pattern with your feet (like samba or baion) and then improvise with your hands on top of that. This approach lends itself to Latin grooves and music, because sambas, bossas, and clave rhythms were all performed by a multi-person Latin percussion section, and have been adapted to the drumset over the last 50 years or so. A good place to start is with the samba foot pattern, and then practice playing the first page of stick control over that with the hands.

Other books devoted to the subject: The New Breed, Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer, Beyond Bop Drumming, Conversations in Clave.
 
I like the classic book actually entitled "4-way-coordination".

Other than that, a good exercise is always to play an ostinato with one, two or three limbs, and read a rhythmic text with the remaining limb. A simple example would be playing a rock beat on the ride, keeping quarters with the left foot on the hihat and reading a page from "Syncopation" with the bass drum.

Or another famous one: Play a baiao samba pattern with your feet, and play various note values, patterns, rudiments, or other things with your hands on the snare.

Second, third, and fourth that! 4WC is AMAZING, but really, really deep. It will take you many years to get through it! I cannot recommend it enough!

Casper
 
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