All 4 fingers on the stick? yes or no?

Yeah, after watching some guys like Jimmy Chamberlain, I no longer believe that I have to keep all 4 of my fingers on the stick at all times. I often see his left hand where both his pinky and ring fingers are off the stick entirely, curled up away from the stick and yet he plays masterfully. It makes sense to me though because my goal has always been to get a good thing going between my thumb and middle finger with my index finger kind of acting more as a "guide", as Dave Weckl has said. There are lots and lots of things I can do that don't require my pinky and ring fingers (not that this is about both the pinky and ring fingers, but still).

The thing with working one finger at a time may have come from Jojo Mayer's Secret Weapons for the Modern Drummer video.
 
I never realized my pinky came off the stick until I watched a video of myself.........when I do fast double strokes, it comes completely off.........bad technique I guess, but it works
 
longgun said:
I never realized my pinky came off the stick until I watched a video of myself.........when I do fast double strokes, it comes completely off.........bad technique I guess, but it works
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It's not bad technique if it works for you and doesn't cause any pain or mistakes.
 
longgun said:
I never realized my pinky came off the stick until I watched a video of myself.........when I do fast double strokes, it comes completely off.........bad technique I guess, but it works
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Actually at high tempos, the correct technique for doubles really only involves the first two fingers. Bill mentions it in his book and in this very video.
 
I believe yes. More fingers mean more control (and POWAH! YEAH!) to me. It's not the fact that I always use all four fingers, but they're there and ready to control the stick when I need to. I feel and hear that I have increased both control and power in my single, double and triple strokes when I play with all four fingers on the stick. To me it both makes sense (more fingers=more control) and I feel and hear a difference. I started playing like this about 2 years ago when I started at the conservatory. I've had major progress on the technical side of things after I began my studies.

Actually at high tempos, the correct technique for doubles really only involves the first two fingers. Bill mentions it in his book and in this very video.
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To me, it involves all four fingers at all tempos. Depending on the dynamics, the work is distributed sort of unevenly between my fingers. They all work together to give me maximum control over the stick.

Although I can see how playing drum kit is technically a bit different (I know it is, I have and is playing in bands), as it involves more wrist and arm movement (at least to get your hands in position), but all finger control stuff is in my world a lot easier if you have the ability to use all of your four fingers.
 
MLdrum said:
I believe yes. More fingers mean more control (and POWAH! YEAH!) to me. It's not the fact that I always use all four fingers, but they're there and ready to control the stick when I need to. I feel and hear that I have increased both control and power in my single, double and triple strokes when I play with all four fingers on the stick. To me it both makes sense (more fingers=more control) and I feel and hear a difference. I started playing like this about 2 years ago when I started at the conservatory. I've had major progress on the technical side of things after I began my studies.



To me, it involves all four fingers at all tempos. Depending on the dynamics, the work is distributed sort of unevenly between my fingers. They all work together to give me maximum control over the stick.

Although I can see how playing drum kit is technically a bit different (I know it is, I have and is playing in bands), as it involves more wrist and arm movement (at least to get your hands in position), but all finger control stuff is in my world a lot easier if you have the ability to use all of your four fingers.
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Did you even watch the video? Bill explains why all 4 fingers on the stick doesn't always work. The same techniques do not work at all tempos.
 
I've been making a conscious effort to keep as many fingers on the stick as possible. I just don't feel like I have much control with my weak hand if I don't. The hard part has been finding the happy medium between keeping fingers on the stick and not put a death grip on the stick.

I was actually watching a video on Drum Channel the other night with Cobus. He talked about how keeping more fingers on the stick helps evenly distribute the friction and reduce blistering. I don't have a problem with blistering, but the idea of even distribution through multiple contact points makes sense.

Now if I could only find some time to get behind the kit or pad and try it out.

Oh, and as always, thanks for sharing your knowledge Bill. I enjoy watching all of your lessons.
 
I find I get the best sound from the drums( and cymbals) with the least contact I I have with the sticks! Most of the time 2 fingers. Exceptions...perhaps speed( very fast 16th's notes)or very loud accents(?). Denis
 
When I practice technique in the studio, I strive for beautiful form. When I am playing a gig, I have no idea what is going on with my hands, I just play. I'm sure I unconsciously adjust how I hold the stick for the tone I'm going for. I think it's crazy to say that Oh yea, all 4 fingers on the stick at all times. Real life doesn't work that way. But it's good to practice using all 4. I know when I have to do my fastest singles, I get my pinky involved, because it is the furthest away from the fulcrum and has the most leverage. Other than that, I don't even give a thought to how my hands are on the stick. They automatically go where they are needed without a conscious thought from me, except for fast singles.
 
Jeff Almeyda said:
Actually at high tempos, the correct technique for doubles really only involves the first two fingers. Bill mentions it in his book and in this very video.
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I meant that they come off pretty far...........when doing fast double strokes, my fulcrum is just my thumb and pointy finger........sometimes my middle finger, but at times my pinky looks like I'm drinking tea
 
longgun said:
but at times my pinky looks like I'm drinking tea
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Haha, nice analogy.

I'm in the same boat as I reach higher speeds, but consciously focusing on keeping your pinky on the stick has actually worked out really well for me. It didn't take me as long as I thought it would to break (mostly break...) this habit. I do get more power out of my strokes from having all of my fingers on the stick. Just my brief thoughts.
 
Thought-provoking topic. Saying that, it's because I have spent the last three hours analyzing what my hands are actually doing because of the video. I generally don't spend that much time. :D

Just doing general rudiments fast to slow, low to high - singles and doubles, flams drags, there are definitely times all of my fingers are not on the stick. They may appear to be close and they're close enough to be "in range" at any time.

Musically, depends on the tempo, musical format/setting etc. what my hands are doing. I think Larry alluded to that.

Overall, I'd say any beginner will probably learn most speedily by using all of the fingers on the drumstick. Stick Control, rudiments, hand exercise and finger exercise will be a part of learning to decide when it's best to use all fingers, or use discretion of which fingers take on "the workload".

I'm still learning, hopefully the above makes sense.

Also, great videos Bill Bachmann!
 
Here's a good viewing of pinkies off the stick. Pipe Band drummers. Playing starts around 1:48:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYECFKLwODo

A few people commented that they had "bad habits". It's amusing, if you know who these two players are. Now I know this is different from Bill's video. In his, the pinkies seem to come on and off the stick, depending on what he is playing or how fast he's going. In the Pipe Band video, their pinkies are off the whole time- and occasionally sticking out. Yes, this is a completely different genre of music from what most of the people here play. But it does highlight how the "pinkie rule" can limit you.
 
it is possible to play well with pinkys out. In fact, I play press rolls with pinkies out, always have and it is what they told me to do in college anyway. However... sticking your pinkies out disallows many good techniques, such as Moeller and Gladstone (again this is not to say that other effective, safe techniques are not possible)


The reaosn for this is that sticking out the pinky puts the wrist in an odd position that cuts off support from the arm. You gain extra use of the thumb, but the power of the arm is cut. I know of no good technique to get power with the pinky out (can you imagine punching someone with your pinky out?)

The pinky is the weakest finger because it is directly in line with the ulna - the center arm bone, and the power lines of the arms run through the pinky/ring finger. (This is why you punch someone with your pinky instead of your thumb) The thumb is the strongest finger because it is opposable (opposed to the line of the arm) and cannot itself access the rest of the body.


To test this out, try picking up something heave without using the thumb. Then try picking up something heavy without using the pinky/ring finger.

Another thing to try out: Put your hand such that your pinky is on resting on the table, and turn your wrist around your pinky... such that your pinky is the pivot point. Try the sam thing with the thumb as the pivot point.


So you can point the pinky, but only without power. If you try to add power without the pinky, you will likely end up hurting yourself over time.


As far as Bill Bachman's pinky... it never points out. He is playing with power and control *and* using his whole arm/body. Yes his pinky is coming off, but more in a '*really* loose grip way.' You will also notice that while his pinkies come off, they also come back on and are used for the main strokes.
 
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The rule is simple, if the ring and pinky are involved you are unecessarily choking more the stick than with just the 3 fingers. The 5 fingers are good purely for finger control, other than that they are absolutely unecessary.

Try a simple stroke using all the fingers and without using the back 2 fingers and tell me which one sounds better and more relaxed. That's why Murray Spivack was a genius
 
Reminds me of an Ian Paice tutorial video. His pinkies stuck out at higher tempos and numerous people lambasted him ... as though they were superior musicians ... ahem
 
Even after watching the video I don't feel like I am clear here. Are some people advocating playing with all of your fingers wrapped around the stick and holding onto it? Or is it that by "on the stick" it is meant that they are touching the stick as a guide, but not really gripping it?

If it is a full hand grip we're talking about, how can you get any rebound? (the playing in the video was too fast and not at the best angle to clearly see what his hands were doing)
 
Stomper4x4 said:
Even after watching the video I don't feel like I am clear here. Are some people advocating playing with all of your fingers wrapped around the stick and holding onto it? Or is it that by "on the stick" it is meant that they are touching the stick as a guide, but not really gripping it?

If it is a full hand grip we're talking about, how can you get any rebound? (the playing in the video was too fast and not at the best angle to clearly see what his hands were doing)
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Can't speak for everybody here, but all of my fingers do not stay in contact through the entire stroke. However, they all work to help control and cradle the stick. In other words, I try not to let my pinky fly out, as this usually is a sign of tension in my hands.
 
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