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  #1  
Old 06-21-2012, 12:25 AM
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Default Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

So I feel like stretching my bounds a little and am listening to jazz lately because it's like a mental workout for me. And it occurred to me that it doesn't come natural and I don't absolutely love it like I do other genres. I was wondering if that matters. Like someday, could I love it as much as the most devoted devotee? Can I force myself to polish my lens and try and understand whatever there is to understand about jazz and love it as much as music I don't have to work to love?

I tend to think of music like a woman in a lot of ways. Ones you have the hots for and ones you don't. Like Jazz is this beautiful woman that just doesn't oil my gears. Can I learn to love that? I obviously love other forms quite effortlessly.

Like did all the jazz lovers here always love jazz? Or is it an acquired taste? I'm not that sofistikated lol.
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:52 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

You know how there's that one woman who lives down the street. You see her all the time. Then, suddenly you look a little closer, and next thing you know she's looking pretty good and you're wondering where she's been all this time.

She's jazz.
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:57 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

I always loved jazz, but then I started hearing it when I was 13 years old or so. It hit me a certain way and that was that, I knew where I wanted to go.

But I'm sure that as you change, you know, as you grow intellectually and emotionally, you may find that what didn't speak to you before starts doing so now.

Over the past several years I've developed a real affection for old-time Americana music. That stuff gets to me; a good example of what I'm talking about is the soundtrack to "O Brother Where Art Thou."

Another example: I always hated country music until one night when I paid attention to the songs in "The Last Picture Show."

So sure, you can develop an admiration for a genre of music that you once gave short shrift to. In fact, I'll bet it's not all that uncommon.
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:04 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I tend to think of music like a woman in a lot of ways. Ones you have the hots for and ones you don't. Like Jazz is this beautiful woman that just doesn't oil my gears. Can I learn to love that? I obviously love other forms quite effortlessly.
It's a good analogy Larry, you certainely have your preference regarding women, that's for sure,lol, but sometimes having a discussion with a woman that's not your type can reveal an other aspect of an "attraction", her personnality, her innerself, what's she's telling you, the soft voice, her complex way of touching you emotions, these wonderful words she uses to express herself, that distinct perfume she's using, suddenly you're hooked, and you want to talk more and more, who knows, you might fall in love with her :)
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

Sounds like OPosted question is the result of trying to figure out if you should make yourself work on something you dont really want to.

What is pushing you in this direction? Its a great question (the OP) but just wondering why you are at this crossroads now.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:07 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

To stretch my comfort zone. To try and "get it". To get better mentally at time sigs where I get thrown. Which happens a lot when I listen to jazz, I fall off the horse so to speak. Because I think I should. Because anything that was worthwhile for me in this life has been a pain in the ass.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:22 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

I'm not familiar with this concept?

You don't have to love a dirty steamer to absolutely smash her!

I'm going to start singing Tina Turner in a minute.

But yeah, I want to learn to love Jazz too, sometimes I do, in smaller doses but not a wide enough range. I want to sit down, smoke a cigar, lean back in my chair and put a gun to someones head while telling them how 'I've always loved dis toon'.

Shoot them in the face, wipe their blood off my face with my tie, loosen it off a bit then make a small hand gesture which signals my men to take the body away.

Then lie back eating grapes, enjoying the jazz.

I want this!
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:28 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

as con struct so eloquently put...."you may find that what didn't speak to you before starts doing so now."

you can always learn to love something......

a few quotes that I love from some of my favorite artists....... hopefully you will think of a few of these while embarking on your new journey Larry

it truly is one amazing, long, fruitful journey



"Jazz washes away the dust of every day life."

-Art Blakey

"Jazz is a mental attitude rather than a style. It uses a certain process of the mind expressed spontaneously through some musical instrument. I'm concerned with retaining that process."

-Bill Evans

"...it bugs me when people try to analyze jazz as an intellectual theorem. It's not. It's feeling."

Bill Evans

"Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity."

Charles Mingus

"Music is your own experience, your thoughts, your wisdom. If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."

Charlie Parker

"You've got to learn your instrument. Then, you practice, practice, practice. And then, when you finally get up there on the bandstand, forget all that and just wail."

Charlie Parker


"Only play what you hear. If you don't hear anything, don't play anything."

Chick Corea

"It's taken me all my life to learn what not to play."

Dizzy Gillespie

"They flat their fifths, we drink ours."

Eddie Condon

"Jazz musicians are the only workers I can think of who are willing to put in a full shift for pay and then go somewhere else and continue to work for free."

George Carlin

"Jazz is the only music in which the same note can be played night after night but differently each time."

Ornette Coleman

"One very important thing I learned from Monk was his complete dedication to music. That was his reason for being alive. Nothing else mattered except music, really."

Sonny Rollins

"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture."

Thelonious Monk

"Jazz music is the power of now. There is no script. It's conversation. The emotion is given to you by musicians as they make split-second decisions to fulfill what they feel the moment requires."

Wynton Marsalis
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:29 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

Yes.

I think a big part of enjoying music it is being able to recall it as you listen to it, probably why we enjoy singing along so much. Music that you aren't familiar with, or music that takes longer to memorize takes longer to enjoy, that's my theory.

I believe this because music that doesn't strike me at first is often music that I enjoy more in the long term and the stuff that I love instantly generally has a short shelf life.

If you straight up don't like it though... you could probably take the hint and not make yourself suffer.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:36 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky - Hellraizer View Post
I'm not familiar with this concept?

You don't have to love a dirty steamer to absolutely smash her!

I'm going to start singing Tina Turner in a minute.

But yeah, I want to learn to love Jazz too, sometimes I do, in smaller doses but not a wide enough range. I want to sit down, smoke a cigar, lean back in my chair and put a gun to someones head while telling them how 'I've always loved dis toon'.

Shoot them in the face, wipe their blood off my face with my tie, loosen it off a bit then make a small hand gesture which signals my men to take the body away.

Then lie back eating grapes, enjoying the jazz.

I want this!
Step away from the keyboard, Chunk!!

I get this Larry. I'm a definite jazz fringe dweller myself. Some of it I like, some of it I don't.....but even then, much of it I don't "get" as such and I've never gone out of my way to even try to develop an ear for it.

I recall conversations here where guys like Steamer etc would talk about the need for "immersion" in the genre in order to understand it. I remember thinking how much I'd struggle with that approach given the fact that it just doesn't turn me on the way that rock does for example......could I really sit there hoping to "get" something which only has a mild appeal?

I don't like pumpkin. I know I could eat it three meals a day and still not learn to appreciate it....I'd hate it even more. Would immersing myself in jazz produce the same effect or would I start to see it's real beauty and complexity?

Interesting topic and I'm keen to follow your thoughts as you progress.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:39 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

I never liked jazz, I always assumed it was for snobs, and I could never make sense of it. It just sounded like noise to me.
On reccomendation from a friend, I picked up a used copy of Kind Of Blue, and to my surprise, I enjoyed it. It wasnt the best thing I had ever heard, but I was please, and proceeded to file it away in my collection.

A few days later all I could think about, and listen to, was jazz.

That has lead me to many new artists, and a plethora of new music.

I think a gradual exposure, natural curiosity and yearning of the soul can get you into anything. Without these....no chance.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:41 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

I think so. At least to an extent.

I never grew up listening to jazz, but as teen, I got so into wanting to know everything about the history of drums that I went and learned as much about jazz as I could. Do I spend a lot of time listening to it these days? No, not so much. But it comes up now and then.

Same with other styles.
I never much like country,but my wife got into Johnny Cash, and well, OK, I guess all country isn't so bad. I dislike most rap, but I've heard a few songs here and there I have to admit are pretty good.

Even with classic rock, there have been bands I never thought much of, and despite hearing them on the radio a million times, I never cared for, then one day, something will hit me out of the blue, and I'll suddenly get it, what ever that "it" is that made the song/band popular.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:57 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Like did all the jazz lovers here always love jazz? Or is it an acquired taste?
I was born and raised on it so to me it's no different than someone who grew up with only exposed to Rock.

Clarity needed though. The word Jazz alone paints too broad of a picture. Jazz is not Jazz the same as Rock is not Rock. There are different styles within Jazz I love - others I can't listen to. I love some Rock and I dislike just as much. I love some Country and then I can't stand others.

I'd caution throwing out the baby with the bathwater on just giving up on it, that's for darn sure.

This is where I caution people who are trying to expose themselves to the genre to understand the history of it. Starting with Jazz at Elvin Jones would be very difficult as would starting with Mike Portnoy/Mike Mangini, etc.... at learning Rock. I know for me, I'd be lost in either scenario.

Again, if someone really wants to understand the history of Jazz drumming, I think Danny Gottlieb's Evolution of Jazz Drumming (book, cd,dvd) is a phenomenal resource for someone who is trying to get their arms around the genre.

At the same time understanding that there is a difference in the musical philosophy between Rock and Jazz is important. That's an entire topic unto itself.
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Old 06-21-2012, 03:02 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
So I feel like stretching my bounds a little and am listening to jazz lately because it's like a mental workout for me. And it occurred to me that it doesn't come natural and I don't absolutely love it like I do other genres. I was wondering if that matters.
Larry, my first thought is that there is no need to love a genre. I mean, it's convenient when you're looking for new music but in the end all we can enjoy is the piece that we're listening to, whatever style it is.

How about bluesy jazz? Kenny Burrell's Chitlins?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP0flneNfaQ ... it makes modern smooth "jazz" sound lumpy :)

Or crossover (David T Waker and Pretty Purdie): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCyRPCojb2Q

Lots of bop bores me. There's much I don't understand and at times there's not enough visceral appeal to keep me interested. Scalar soling is horrible to me most of the time. Once they start running through 16ths and 16th note triplets ... ugh! The occasional run in the right place can sound great or use of fast notes to create legato effects at times, but often it sounds to me like aimless noodling, waiting in vain for the muse to turn up. But some players / bands tap into the muse more than others.

I love the acoustic jazz sound - Sonny Rollins http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah-j6fALiGw

Ahmad Jamal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7RIDZulyHA

And Monk's always fun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nttZuuACn-I

Jazz doesn't have to be "difficult" - Papa Jo Jones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjCg7o1quAQ

Gene Krupa's Drum Boogie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRjQzSwmEHw

Tom Waits live http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3-pTLDP0K4

And jazz can be hauntingly beautiful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOjxBuwBUEE

Or tasty and classy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uu4asv7xTc

Don't feel limited to bop. That's just one style.
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Old 06-21-2012, 03:13 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

In that case, I think you can and will.

Best thing for me is to find a really catchy tune and start with that. If you cant fall in love with a good one then you are prolly done.

Working on fast single bass drum triplets (hat K K) and I hate it but holy shit does it sound cool. Listen to I cant quit you babe by LZ.... An awful thing to learn and useless my most pop music terms but its great to be able to do.
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Old 06-21-2012, 03:18 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

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I think Danny Gottlieb's Evolution of Jazz Drumming (book, cd,dvd) is a phenomenal resource for someone who is trying to get their arms around the genre.

that book is second to none for someone trying to digest the drumming of the genre
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Old 06-21-2012, 03:36 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Step away from the keyboard, Chunk!!
.

I think it's for the best if I do.

Some strange thought patterns lately.

I agree with your post, also Polly's And DrumEatDrum.

That 'it' factor has gotten me a few times over the years with styles or bands I've hated then overnight it hits me and i start to like even the stuff I hated.
How does that happen?

I think alot of people feel the need to not only learn jazz but, like it. In the drumming world if you say you don't like or play jazz alot of drummers instantly write you off like your a tub thumping neanderthal that doesn't get it. The kudos jazz guys recieve from musicians is a big motivator for alot of drummers to want to learn and love it.

I enjoy playing it way more than listening and I wish I truely loved more of it. I saw one guy, jazz guitarist playing over sort of fusion/funk music and to be honest with you, the notes he was hitting were awful. it was very clever but it deliberately went everywhere you didn't want it to or expected it to.
Usually I'd switch off and come to the conclusion it was crap but, you should have seen him, he felt every note. he literally looked pained as he hit notes, his body contorted and collapsed on itself I was suprised he stayed on his feet.
For someone to feel their music that much and have such a big impact on them it cast a spell on me and I wanted some of that mojo.
Yeah you can get that feeling from any music, I do with metal, I want to punch myself in the head, bite a lump out of arm, spit in someones eye and I get cronic 'man-jaw' when playing but, I want that equivelent feeling with jazz.

It sounds daft that it enthralled me so much but, he WAS the music. He didn't care who was watching or nothing. Amazing.

He's a famous session guy, or was. Don't know his name or what he's up to now.

So yeah, I have the same goal as you, to learn to love this stuff with a genuine passion.
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:10 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky - Hellraizer View Post
I think a lot ["a lot" being two words, ahem] of people feel the need to not only learn jazz but, like it. In the drumming world if you say you don't like or play jazz alot of drummers instantly write you off like your a tub thumping neanderthal that doesn't get it. The kudos jazz guys recieve from musicians is a big motivator for a lot of drummers to want to learn and love it.
I agree with this but I think coordination, gaining control and exploring the subtle shades of timbres at low volume is alluring for others. It's the tasty timbres that get me. I can't play the chops at all so I go for the sounds and a touch of the feel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky - Hellraizer View Post
... I saw one guy, jazz guitarist playing over sort of fusion/funk music and to be honest with you, the notes he was hitting were awful. it was very clever but it deliberately went everywhere you didn't want it to or expected it to.
Sure. Some soloing is horrible. It's improv, which by its nature is hit-or-miss. We all like some soloists more than others too.
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

There's just not enough room to quote all the great stuff so far.... I got something from every post...Thank you all. I just came off of about 1/2 hour of listening to hard bop when I made this thread, which is hard for me to take, I was lost for most of it lol. Where the heckis the &%#@! one? Then I went back out and heard a really great set of stuff I could follow along with. (Sirius satelite radio, great investment) So there's already stuff that sounds good to me. And the drumsolos are worth the wait. I like jazz drumsolos the best because they do 4 or 8 bars of always tasty stuff, and that's it usually, or even better, they trade 4's...

Some stuff is just plain hard to digest for me like the hard bop. But I am determined to understand jazz more than I do. I am hoping some things will spill over into my playing. What, I'm not sure but I am strengthening my internal counting mechanism anyway. When they go over the barline and start their phrasing on beat 2...for like 4 measures in a row, why do they have to do that? It confuses me. They are like the mean kid on the anthill with a magnifying glass lol.

Anthony, fantastic quotes, thanks. The Monk quote knocked me out. And the Chick quote is pure gold.

And Chunk you're killing it man, keep tapping.

Jules, love your stuff. Not sure if the pumpkin/jazz correlation is transferrable, but I love the way your mind works.

Grea, thank you for all that work. I don't have the time to go through it all now, and tomorrow I have work and a gig at night but Friday I'll have time to listen to it all.

Last edited by larryace; 06-21-2012 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:02 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

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There's just not enough room to quote all the great stuff so far.... I got something from every post...Thank you all. I just came off of about 1/2 hour of listening to hard bop when I made this thread, which is hard for me to take, I was lost for most of it lol. Then I went back out and heard a really great set of stuff I could follow along with. (Sirius satelite radio, great investment) So there's already stuff that sounds good to me. Some stuff is just plain hard to digest for me like the hard bop. But I am determined to understand jazz more than I do. I am hoping some things will spill over into my playing. What, I'm not sure but I am strengthening my internal counting mechanism anyway. When they go over the barline and start their phrasing on beat 2...for like 4 measures in a row, why do they have to do that? It confuses me. They are like the mean kid on the anthill with a magnifying glass.

And Chunk you're killing it man, keep tapping.

Grea, thank you for all that work. I don't have the time to go through it all now, and tomorrow I have work and a gig at night but Friday I'll have time to hear it.
Larry there is a great video by Ralph Peterson called Jazz Drumming Demystified

so much great info and insight into these very things that are unclear to you ....not only drumming concepts....jazz music as a whole
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:26 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

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I tend to think of music like a woman in a lot of ways. Ones you have the hots for and ones you don't. Like Jazz is this beautiful woman that just doesn't oil my gears. Can I learn to love that? I obviously love other forms quite effortlessly.
Well, it's more like saying that, say, Buddhist women don't do it for you-- all 200,000,000 of them. The label jazz doesn't cover quite that much ground, but it's pretty damned broad. I wouldn't concern yourself with learning to like or love "jazz", I would get some records that everyone thinks are great and start living with them, and see what they do for you. I think the way a lot of us came to the music was by buying a record somebody we respected told us was going to be cool-- Nefertiti by Miles Davis-- we put it on and didn't know what to make of it, but we kept listening because we trusted the person to be right, and anyway we didn't have the bread to go buy more records for another month. At some point you find yourself wanting to hear Madness come over the speakers, and then it's a part of you. That's about all there is to liking or loving "jazz."
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:32 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

I think it needs to be said that there's no reason for anyone to give jazz a moment of their lives. No matter what anyone may think, jazz is not a superior form of music, and not liking jazz doesn't take one thing away from your life or your musicianship.

Struggling to like something makes no sense to me.
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:42 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

Thanks Larry! This thread has made me feel alot better about my struggle to get into all things jazz. It's also inspired me to try harder too, I always thought I was the only one. So thanks!

I agree Polly, subtle dynamics, timbres etc ARE very appealing. i see jazz guys do some real neat tricks that you couldn't really do in other styles of music.
I love how even when the drums are whisper quiet they are never fighting to be heard. It's relaxed and just 'there'.
I love alot of the drumming concepts of jazz it's mainly the odd dischorded sounds and off key notes played by the lead that really turns me off.

Judging by the comments and advice given on this thread I've jumped straight into the deep end (as usual) and have struggled to get into it because of this. I need to start with the more common, easy listening stuff first.

I guess it would be like showing someone who's not into metal some tech death or djent. I've gradually gotten into more and more extreme versions of metal the longer i've been into it.
First time I heard Meshuggah 11 years ago I though it was just noise.
Now? I love them, study them, am constantly bowled over by their timing prowess.

And Larry I've encountered the same problem, I've spent years playing odd timings and polymeters, playing over and under the bar etc. It's very natural to me now but still, I just got a load of new jazz backing tracks without a click and man, I've gotten lost a few times now!
It seems to go off on a tangent and I'm relieved when the song comes back in. It's disorientating, even though I do this stuff alot, it feels different.

So it goes to show how powerful feel is. same techniques and principals, add a different feel and BAM! It's new.

And hard again...

So don't worry, you're not the only one, and keep knackin' it brotha!
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:54 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

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I think it needs to be said that there's no reason for anyone to give jazz a moment of their lives. No matter what anyone may think, jazz is not a superior form of music, and not liking jazz doesn't take one thing away from your life or your musicianship.

Struggling to like something makes no sense to me.
*sorry for overposting*

Also a great point Construct. Even though I'm trying to really get into it shouldn't mean that I have to.
I might fail eventually and just say 'this is me, this what I like and I've tried my best' and that should be fine if it does go that way.

I've always felt like I'm failing somehow by not being gripped by it. Only jazz has this sort of mythical power even though, as you pointed out, it's not superior or harder. Just different.
But it carries such a rep.

Anyway wish me luck, I plan to succeed. May start a jazz tips thread, there's load of seriously experienced jazzers on here I could steal thoughts from!
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Old 06-21-2012, 07:41 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Grea, thank you for all that work. I don't have the time to go through it all now, and tomorrow I have work and a gig at night but Friday I'll have time to listen to it all.
Yep. I think it comes back to both what Todd and Jay said. As Todd noted, like rock and blues, there's heaps of variation within the form. Compare BB to Willie Dixon to John Mayall ... all blues but way different for much of the time. Jazz is more diverse again.

I came across jazz partly because my sister had a LTR with a Chosen One jazz muso so I regularly saw his bands. Also, I tended to follow certain musicians, which lead me to more jazz. For instance, I was keen on Billy Cobham and that lead me to a an early George Benson album that was mostly bop. I used to love playing sloppily along with Billie's Bounce. (this one's a cover but he plays along pretty well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay_ZB9Vq7tY)

At the same time, as J said there's no sense in struggling ... but it does make sense to explore because there are so many obscure (and not so obscure) gems out there to enjoy. All you need are recommendations from people who know your tastes - like me *grin*


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky - Hellraizer View Post
I agree Polly, subtle dynamics, timbres etc ARE very appealing. i see jazz guys do some real neat tricks that you couldn't really do in other styles of music. I love how even when the drums are whisper quiet they are never fighting to be heard. It's relaxed and just 'there'.
Yup, some things only work at low volume - the snare, ride and toms especially have a lot more voices at low volume.

Then we have those standard debates about how small kits are better than big kits because they force you to get more voices out of each drum and others say large kits are best because you have more voices, full stop.

For some reason no one (me included) ever seems to just say that small kits are great for those who play a fair bit at low volume (can still get lots of tasty voices and don't have to lug around the kitchen sink) ... BUT large kits add colour for louder players because the subtle changes aren't noticed with all that racket going on.

Back in the day, at gigs where the foldback was especially bad, I'd have to flip my sticks. It wasn't optimal but I could at least be heard and no one ever complained. If I played the ride with the butt end of the stick in my lounge band the clang would sound terrible.


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Originally Posted by Chunky - Hellraizer View Post
I love alot ["a lot" being two words!!] of the drumming concepts of jazz it's mainly the odd dischorded sounds and off key notes played by the lead that really turns me off.
That's hard bop. Hard bop and free did a great deal to turn the general public off jazz. Funny how that worked out ... I mean, Yes and ELP and King Crimson didn't turn anyone off rock, they just changed channels.

There's a lot of good jazz out there in the sweet spot where they're less angular than the hard stuff but not just a bland cover of a goofy standard with boring solos.


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Originally Posted by Chunky - Hellraizer View Post
Judging by the comments and advice given on this thread I've jumped straight into the deep end (as usual) and have struggled to get into it because of this. I need to start with the more common, easy listening stuff first.
Did you enjoy any of the links I put together for Larry?

I like these kinds of exchanges. It reminds me of a PM chat between Frost (former forum poster) and me.

He was trying different metal links to see what I might like. He sent me a funeral doom track that I thought was FANTASTIC ... at least for an old psychedelia fan like me ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCC_qEUJAwc ... you need to be in the mood (reflective - you don't need to be depressed, but it would help :)

That was the only one, though. As for Meshuggah's timing - yes, unbelievable. Tomas H is a freak of nature. But I can't listen to the music. Once I lasted about 90 seconds but it's just too brutal for me. Usually I last about 5 seconds before it hurts.

That's okay, for some jazz is either too tame and, when it's wild enough to scratch the adrenaline itch, then it's too obscure or technical.

Sorry, this is all way too long winded. I got carried away. Better take the dog for a walk.
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

I guess I apreciated jazz almost as much as rock,and some other forms of music,because I was exposd to it because of American TV.The variety type of shows of the day,were prevelant and popular.The Ed Sullivan show for example featured rock,pop,and jazz acts on the same bill.Other shows such as Milton Bearl,Dean Martin,The Smothers Brothers,and Tom Jones were all about the same thing.Hell even the world famous Fillmore east which was a rock palace,had Buddy Rich and his band for a couple of shows(they were amazing).

Then there was late night,and the king was Johnny Carson and the Tonight show band,who were just amazing.Carson would have Buddy Rich on frequently,and once in a while,Louis Bellson.

So I learned to like jazz early on,but I don't reguard it as a superior form of music.Prehaps in the early days of rock,the musicians weren't on the same level,but that soon changed,and the players now are every bit as good as jazz musicians.

I don't think you can make youself like a particular form of music,but you can certainly appreciate it,and respect it as an art form.

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Old 06-21-2012, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

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Originally Posted by con struct View Post
I think it needs to be said that there's no reason for anyone to give jazz a moment of their lives. No matter what anyone may think, jazz is not a superior form of music, and not liking jazz doesn't take one thing away from your life or your musicianship.
Totally agree :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by con struct View Post
Struggling to like something makes no sense to me.
Back when I started drumming, it was all rock stuff, if anyone made me listen to a jazz record I would just dismiss the music, simple as that, coming to actually like jazz music was an evolution through many kind of music over a life span of almost 30 years, it all started in the early seventies with the eruption of "fusion" bands, which eventually lead to jazz, I never felt like "hey, as from tomorrow, I'm going to listen to jazz and learn to like it", it was a natural evolution, I also played in some fusion/rock/funk/jazz type of bands in which I met players who where heavily into jazz, these guys influenced me too.

Now, I love jazz, not every genre but a lot *two words*, still I can't play jazz, in the purest sense, but it has helped me within my drumming, no doubt.

Larry, you may not become a jazz drummer, but the fact that you're interested/inspired to dig deeper into a style that's not your primary love in music, can only be beneficial, if anything, jazz is a great source of inspiration, and there so many sub-genre, I'm sure you'll find some to which you will relate completely.
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:17 PM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

I think it's possible, yeah. Whether you want to spend the time doing it or not is up to you, purely individual choice.

For me, checking out musical styles I'm not yet into or familiar with is often a gateway to a learning experience. It's something new and different and what I learn often can be applied to other musical styles as well. I usually find it rewarding.

About 10 years ago, I joined a country band. I had no use for most of the music we were playing back then, but it was a great learning experience. It forced me to play it straight to a degree I never had to before. It taught me the importance of giving myself completely over to the structure of the song and playing "for the music." This, in turn, helped me play my rock and pop gigs better. I never really fell in love with the music, except for the odd tune here or there, but it was still absolutely 100% worth my time.
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:50 PM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

In my experience, it was only when I started to understand how to play jazz that it began to click with me. When I started working on Riley's "Art of Bop" and I heard Max and Philly Joe playing the comping examples I was practicing, it was almost a revelation, like a black veil had been lifted from my eyes, suddenly the world made much more sense. After that I was hooked. Learning the history of jazz music in general has also been a huge help, my teacher recommended me early on to check out the biography of guys like Miles and Wayne Shorter, which is something I think everyone who wants to learn jazz should do.
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:15 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

If your mind is really open, you can love almost anything. It's generally our personal prejudices that dictate what forms we don't like. I didn't like jazz until I was introduced to really great jazz that I actually liked and grooved to. Growing up, I thought it was the stuffy Kenny G garbage my mom listened to was "jazz". It wasn't until after high school and after I started playing the drums that I really gave the whole jazz thing a try. Now my radio is constantly tuned to the local public jazz station.

At any rate, and less abstractly; yes. The more you listen to something, the higher your chance of coming across an example of the form that you really love. Use that as a springboard, and keep listening.

It was so gradual for me that my band members noticed it before I did. I think the direct quote is something like "dude, you listen to a lot of jazz now".
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Old 06-22-2012, 02:36 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

I like all kinds of good music played well. While jazz is my favorite music, I could play several hundred recordings of jazz in a row that I really didn't like and could likewise play
thousands I love. So, I don't love everything in my favorite genre. I just love music and especially music that is improvised upon. For my ears, there is good and bad in every genre.
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:12 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
The more you listen to something, the higher your chance of coming across an example of the form that you really love. Use that as a springboard, and keep listening.
Good comment and I agree Doc, although I'd qualify by saying some music is simply way out of your preference zone.

I've heard a fair bit of modern metal, country and hardstyle techno and I don't think I can ever warm to those forms ... a couple of tracks here and there and that's about it, and those usually have some sort of crossover element with pop, rock, jazz or ethnic styles.
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:24 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

I haven't checked those links yet Polly, I've used my download limit up on my phone this month.

Good post.
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Old 06-22-2012, 04:38 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

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Originally Posted by Chunky - Hellraizer View Post
I haven't checked those links yet Polly, I've used my download limit up on my phone this month.

Good post.
Thanks Chunk. Bummer about the limit. I never use phone for the net. Not yet. Maybe next year I'll dip my toe in the 21st century.

For the record, I thought the track you posted was much more enjoyable than most modern metal I hear ... I actually listened to it all the way through(!) and a few days later gave it another spin. Believe me, that's very uncommon for me with modern metal!
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: Can a love of music (that is not your preferred genre) be learned?

I think you need to start with the right record otherwise you find yourself bored. That happened to me until I heard Art Pepper - Bernie's Tune. From there on in I'm loving finding new jazz music. One thing I noticed was that going back to rock afterwards, you suddenly hear PRODUCTION. It's so loud and in your face, which is a nice contrast
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