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  #1  
Old 01-14-2012, 05:28 PM
ericgtr ericgtr is offline
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Default Getting taken seriously with an ekit

As some may recall I posted about trading in my ekit toward a new Mapex acoustic kit. I have been actively seeking bands on CL by responding to ads that interest me. I have a demo I built up that I send out that includes several videos of me playing to various songs from Rush to The Police, all on the Roland TD9 KX ekit. The sound quality is great and easy to record, that's one thing I really loved about them but I almost always get replies asking if I have an acoustic kit, which is one of the main reasons I changed over.

However, now all my demos need to be recorded again acoustically so I have to go through that whole setup. I've always maintained that an ekit is just like a guitar, electric or acoustic, you still have to know how to play it. But I've learned many simply do not take it seriously.
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Old 01-14-2012, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

I played Electronic kits exclusively for 20 plus years. I don't even take them seriously any more. There was a time I would argue profusely with people, trying to justify there existence. Not any more. I would recommend doing a new video on your new kit. The stigma is still there, and I don't see it changing anytime soon. Electronic kits are mostly for guys at home to make them feel like they are Superman on a kit, that is much easier to sound good on than an acoustic kit. When I listen to my old recorded stuff now from my TD10, that I thought was the bomb years ago, I just grin, thinking how canned it sounds.
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

The question is, why do you need anyone to take you seriously?
If people are technology snobs then let them live in bliss.

Anyone that actually matters will respect it.
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

You should have kept the ekit.

1) quiet practice so you don't annoy people.

2) ease or recording

3) If you can place the pads around an acoustic kit, that is more sounds

4) Record on your ekit, then when someone asks, "Do you have an accoustic kit?" You can answer, "Yes!"
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

So may acoustic kits are mic'ed when playing live, and EQ'd gated etc that the drums may as well be electric.
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  #6  
Old 01-14-2012, 06:42 PM
ericgtr ericgtr is offline
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

I would've love to have kept the ekit but I just couldn't afford both so I made the choice to trade toward the acoustic kit. I have soundproofed my room enough to where it doesn't bother the neighbors or my wife. It's what I've always played anyway and going back to it after a stint with the ekit took some adjusting. I am with Sticks in some ways on it, it's almost like a toy with canned sounds and for me the lack of dynamics became really obvious when sitting behind an acoustic kit trying the same stuff. It's like I am having to re-learn a lot of things, not a major deal but I was taken aback when I first changed back.
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:10 PM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

Thats funny, I didnt get picked up by a couple bands because I didnt have an e kit and they said the acoustic kit would be just too loud for most of the venues they play. A set of td-12 is my next kit as soon as I can afford it as i find the feel and dynamics very close to that of an acoustic plus they have a bit bigger look on stage. Several of the top bar bands around here are now using roland v-guitar technology as well so they can have the exact sound needed for each cover being played and with in ear monitors they are doing live fade outs and fade ins which is pretty cool imo.
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  #8  
Old 01-14-2012, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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Originally Posted by toddy View Post
The question is, why do you need anyone to take you seriously?
If people are technology snobs then let them live in bliss.

Anyone that actually matters will respect it.
Because he is trying to get a gig! When was the last time you saw a big name band use one on stage? People, including myself don't even like when Neil uses his. This has nothing to do with being a technological snob. They don't look as good, sound as good, feel anywhere near as good. My buddy has a TD20 fully equipped, and recently he got back into acoustics as well. He bought a Bubinga elite, and he now realizes it is night and day different. They are a good practice tool, and easily controlled in small environments.
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  #9  
Old 01-14-2012, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

Oh, and I forgot to mention. I have 11 thousand dollars wasted on my E kit, that is now pretty much obsolete. My buddy spent close to the same on his, that is on its way to being obsolete. If you do want some that actually sound like drums, you are going to have to spend a lot of money on them. Then yours will be on their way to becoming obsolete. You might as well just by acoustic drums.
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  #10  
Old 01-14-2012, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

Here is mine.


Now it collects dust, never being used.
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  #11  
Old 01-14-2012, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
Here is mine.


Now it collects dust, never being used.
If you are desperate enough to pay shipping to get rid of them, the topgun2021 electronic drum donation organization is accepting shipments. >_<
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  #12  
Old 01-14-2012, 08:01 PM
sticks4drums
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

These look better, sound better and feel wayyyyyyyy better.

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  #13  
Old 01-14-2012, 08:16 PM
ericgtr ericgtr is offline
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
Oh, and I forgot to mention. I have 11 thousand dollars wasted on my E kit, that is now pretty much obsolete. My buddy spent close to the same on his, that is on its way to being obsolete. If you do want some that actually sound like drums, you are going to have to spend a lot of money on them. Then yours will be on their way to becoming obsolete. You might as well just by acoustic drums.
Damn dude that's a nice kit (both actually) I feel like I gave the ekit a fair shot, and like tard mentioned some people do really prefer them and I get that. It's more work to lug around, harder to record with and loud as all hell but to me that's the beauty of it and now that I'm used to it again I'm in love with the natural sound, nuances and feel.
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Old 01-14-2012, 08:20 PM
sticks4drums
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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Damn dude that's a nice kit (both actually) I feel like I gave the ekit a fair shot, and like tard mentioned some people do really prefer them and I get that. It's more work to lug around, harder to record with and loud as all hell but to me that's the beauty of it and now that I'm used to it again I'm in love with the natural sound, nuances and feel.
The hi hat and the cymbals are just so hard to get right on the e-kits. I would rather play my e-kit than a four piece acoustic though. :)
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  #15  
Old 01-14-2012, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
The hi hat and the cymbals are just so hard to get right on the e-kits. I would rather play my e-kit than a four piece acoustic though. :)
That's the biggest adjustment, the offset on the ekit is black and white and you nearly have to open it wide up just to notice it. Now my hit hatting is all sloppy because of it!
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  #16  
Old 01-14-2012, 08:25 PM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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Originally Posted by ericgtr View Post
That's the biggest adjustment, the offset on the ekit is black and white and you nearly have to open it wide up just to notice it. Now my hit hatting is all sloppy because of it!
E kits really give you that sense that you are doing a lot better than you really are. It is easier to transition from acoustic to e kit, than the other way around.
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  #17  
Old 01-14-2012, 08:27 PM
sticks4drums
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

Here is my first one. Roland TD7. It actually got me playing drums again way back when.

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  #18  
Old 01-14-2012, 09:03 PM
Mike Mandaville Mike Mandaville is offline
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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Originally Posted by ericgtr View Post

As some may recall I posted about trading in my ekit toward a new Mapex acoustic kit. I have been actively seeking bands on CL by responding to ads that interest me. I have a demo I built up that I send out that includes several videos of me playing to various songs from Rush to The Police, all on the Roland TD9 KX ekit. The sound quality is great and easy to record, that's one thing I really loved about them but I almost always get replies asking if I have an acoustic kit, which is one of the main reasons I changed over.

However, now all my demos need to be recorded again acoustically so I have to go through that whole setup. I've always maintained that an ekit is just like a guitar, electric or acoustic, you still have to know how to play it. But I've learned many simply do not take it seriously.

That digital music is taken seriously is demonstrated by the fact that The Hammond B3 Organ, the Rhodes Electric Piano and the Hohner Clavinet all went out of production when digital keyboards first came on the scene.

That electric drums are taken seriously is demonstrated by the ongoing success of bands like Kraftwerk and Devo.

Most of us prefer the real McCoy though, when it comes to drums.

.
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  #19  
Old 01-14-2012, 09:20 PM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

It's all a case of what kind of music are you gonna play, and what kinda sound do you wanna have. If the bands you wanna get into want you to have an acoustic kit, then that's what you need.
There are plenty of electro/techno/industrial bands that have drummers on e-kits. But if you're not trying to pursue that type of music, don't expect Bubba's Blues Band, or most bands with "traditional" musical offerings, to embrace electronics. Musicians, are not, on a whole, that open minded. Nor are they that well educated to what's going on, in other parts of the world. And rightly so, I guess. If all your gigs are within 50 miles of Po-dunk, USA ... then you really don't need to know what 10,000 kids are raving to in Ibiza.
But if you do know what's going on, in the rest of the world, it might at least make you a more interesting conversationalist.
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  #20  
Old 01-14-2012, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
I would rather play my e-kit than a four piece acoustic though. :)
That's funny. I had a 4 piece Ludwig set for, literally, 50 years and loved it for 49 of them. And I just took some "leftovers" (2 Tama toms and a Sonor bass drum) that I wasn't using, added one of my snares, and made another 4-piece with that. I love the simplicity.
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  #21  
Old 01-15-2012, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

Thing is people dont show up with their ears to the gigs.They dont want to see four balding overweight musicians either.There is a distinction between being a full blown rock star and just being the local bar band,that is easy for musicians to distinguish,but not as much for all fans of music.So at any given time,there could be twenty people in that small venue,that look at you like you may as well be Steven Tyler himself.Yea to us its ridiculous,but they seriously see a rock star.They see you walking through the grocery store and point you out.I mean how many of you have had someone come up and want a picture with you?All they see is someone who is living it.So in a round about way,yea your band mates recognize that,and want to maintain that conservative rock band approach.
Yes the ekit will sound great and you guys will have a nice show,but for them twenty people that associate you with the superstar bands,its confusing.They dont remember seeing Maiden or Priest use an e-kit.The last four Ozzfests they hit with tons of bands they never seen one either.
Yes they recall seeing Def leppard and Rick Allen using an e-kit,but quickly brush it off because it must be so easy you can do it with one arm.So youre really getting into the psychological side of it.To many of your audience,its still an event.A show.They dont want to hear that the e-kit is simply easier to lug around,or that the bassists 1x15 and the guitarist 1x12 simply make it easier on the band to move gear.You can explain to them all day that its all mic'd up anyway and will still sound full...they want to see a show.Not a practice room.

Its entertainment.You wouldnt want to go to a baseball game and watch them bunt every at bat,or to a football game and hand it to the running back every single play.We jump out of our seats for the home run,and for the 80 yard TD pass.

If you scare away them twenty people who look up to you,then youre left with other musicians and bar flies barking out requests of old trucker songs.The musicians usually have their arms crossed and are quick to dissect a choice in your set,and the dude yelling for you to play convoy will end up getting punched out by your bass player.You need them twenty people to keep things rolling.

The day we make it easiest for us to play a gig,by having a three piece e-kit and all the guitars hooked up through a pedal directly to a computer,then we will have officially became karaoke's bigger brother.Gotta bring the show,and that over the top acoustic kit is and forever will be the centerpiece.
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  #22  
Old 01-16-2012, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

Everything Bog said is true. Go for the accoustic.They are more fun and better to look at and much easier to gig with. I have 2 accoustic and an e kit. Once I got used to playing an accoustic I didn't want to play the e-kit anymore. I could easily sell the e kit and not miss it.
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  #23  
Old 01-16-2012, 01:24 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

I have to disagree Bog, the guys I see getting all the gigs and actually doing it for a living have mostly gone to mesh heads and triggers or e kits and the guitar players are using roland v guitar type pedals and racks and such and the bass is di direct, all using in ear monitors and not a cabinet or amp to be seen on stage and believe it or not alot of the big names have been doing it for years. I had a buddy worked for q107 in toronto and he did most of the pr with the bands and the big concerts and saw it from the backside of the stage and even 10 years ago for alot of the bands all the cabs and amps were smoke and mirrors as they were all empty cabinets just for show. And some of them even opted for a cabinet on each end and a set of fold out fronts to look like a wall of cabinets. Even joe perry and richie sambora were both known to use roland vg88's and a rack of pre amps and effects from time to time and just turn on their amps so the lights lit up and have even forgot to do that on occasion and have to have a roadie run up and turn it on or plug a jack cord into it 3 songs in to make it look like its actually being used.

Last edited by tard; 01-16-2012 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

I got an e-kit that got me back into drumming but now that I have an acoustic kit it does not see much use, I don't dare get rid of it because I rent and you never know. I could never see showing up to a gig with it except for maybe a friends party or small venue.

The one thing I don't understand is how do they go obsolete as long as it works correctly? I mean if you buy a 5 piece acoustic kit and hi-hats ride and two crashes and play it for 20 years it does not go obsolete so why would the equivalent in an e-kit go obsolete?
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  #25  
Old 01-16-2012, 01:34 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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I got an e-kit that got me back into drumming but now that I have an acoustic kit it does not see much use, I don't dare get rid of it because I rent and you never know. I could never see showing up to a gig with it except for maybe a friends party or small venue.

The one thing I don't understand is how do they go obsolete as long as it works correctly? I mean if you but a 5 piece acoustic kit and hi-hats ride and two crashes and play it for 20 years it does not go obsolete so why would the equivalent in an e-kit go obsolete?
Sounds and feel. Every new generation that comes out feels and sounds more real than the last one, making the last one yesterday's news. I know, I have been through three or four of these changes. Each time you have to upgrade your module, or change everything if you want to stay current. Very expensive. Unlike old Acoustic drums that people still want if taken care of.
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

I see, just like computers or cel phones. I strictly use mine for practice when the acoustic does not allow so I guess I really don't care how obsolete it becomes, maybe when its the Atari equivalent to todays video games but wait.......no I still have that too, lol

I think I will go play square Pac Man and Quest.
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:01 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

I think once you have gone to something with mesh heads and dual triggers you would really only need to upgrade your sampled sounds or module unless you just have to have the new and improved every time it comes out. BTW my cell phone is 6 years old and doesnt text or take pictures but it makes phone calls and I have a digital camera and a net book so why upgrade...lol
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  #28  
Old 01-16-2012, 02:03 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

E-kits will never quite get the sounds of cymbals right and they certainly do feel better. The actual drums though are very convincing if you use external software libraries:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpUyj...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrzBgyVc-lE

That's old stuff, too. The newer software is even better.

I think e-drums certainly have their place. They're not the same but they are very useful.

EDIT: Thinking about it some more. Why does everyone want them to feel the same as acoustic drums? Treat them as separate instruments and it becomes much more interesting. Some kits feel better to me than others but the only thing that really holds me back from playing my e-kit more is the way the cymbals sound. They're much better than they used to be but it's still not enough for me.

Last edited by mediocrefunkybeat; 01-16-2012 at 02:25 AM.
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:21 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

E drums have done for drummers what keyboards and synths did for piano players.
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:31 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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E drums have done for drummers what keyboards and synths did for piano players.
I think that is a bit of an over exaggeration. Keyboards do a much better job of imitating pianos than electronic kits do of imitating acoustic drums.
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:31 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
So may acoustic kits are mic'ed when playing live, and EQ'd gated etc that the drums may as well be electric.
too right GD. not only that but depending on the band/genre you may have triggers over the kit too. for example at the black dahlia murder / fleshgod apocalypse gig the other night we had triggers/samples on the snare & kick. the toms were close mic'd so they didn't matter so much.

the only thing that's not really important (just put up a stereo pair) are the cymbals, which i find a little comical when you think of how many people come on here asking if X will be good for Y situation. will X even if heard properly when it's up against stacks and a p.a.? ;-)

but i digresss...
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:34 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

oh yeah, this is the e-kit I use, this however is the photo from the companies website (not my kit):



I mean it doesn't look great in comparison to those top quality finishes from Mapex, but it's acceptable.
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:42 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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Originally Posted by mediocrefunkybeat View Post
EDIT: Thinking about it some more. Why does everyone want them to feel the same as acoustic drums? Treat them as separate instruments and it becomes much more interesting. Some kits feel better to me than others but the only thing that really holds me back from playing my e-kit more is the way the cymbals sound. They're much better than they used to be but it's still not enough for me.
Because some people seem to have a space in between their ears that doesn't have any filling.
I challenge anyone to try playing electronic drums on an acoustic kit and see how far you get.

They are completely different instruments.
It's like comparing an acoustic guitar and an electric guitar.
Remember when bob dylan played one and the world went mad? they changed their tune about it after The Beatles though didn't they

Still I don't particularly care if people wanna turn a blind eye.
Ignorance is...
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  #34  
Old 01-16-2012, 02:45 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

Hey Toddy. That kit is backwards. Should be real cymbals and fake toms. :) Nice looking kit buddy.
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:05 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
I think that is a bit of an over exaggeration. Keyboards do a much better job of imitating pianos than electronic kits do of imitating acoustic drums.
I have to disagree, when the sounds used to be computer engineered yes, even piano players didnt like the sounds created by the early keyboards, but now a sampled sound is a sampled sound, they are recorded from the actual instrument. Its just there are a lot less variations of piano sounds than drum sounds given the makes, types, woods, sizes, tuning and heads available to color that sound. If you dont like the sound of your e kit then record the sounds from your acoustic set and program them into a module for your e kit and now it sounds just like your acoustic. Not sure what modules have this feature but I saw it done at a drum clinic for yamahas quite a few years ago, he used his vocal mic and recorded different vocal sounds and some of the sounds from his maple custom absolutes and then went to the dt express set up beside them and used the pads to trigger these sounds back form the module both kits sounded the same plus he added other words and sounds made by the audience to show how fast and easy it can be done.

Last edited by tard; 01-16-2012 at 03:17 AM.
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:28 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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I have to disagree, when the sounds used to be computer engineered yes, even piano players didnt like the sounds created by the early keyboards, but now a sampled sound is a sampled sound, they are recorded from the actual instrument. Its just there are a lot less variations of piano sounds than drum sounds given the makes, types, woods, sizes, tuning and heads available to color that sound. If you dont like the sound of your e kit then record the sounds from your acoustic set and program them into a module for your e kit and now it sounds just like your acoustic. Not sure what modules have this feature but I saw it done at a drum clinic for yamahas quite a few years ago, he used his vocal mic and recorded different vocal sounds and some of the sounds from his maple custom absolutes and then went to the dt express set up beside them and used the pads to trigger these sounds back form the module both kits sounded the same plus he added other words and sounds made by the audience to show how fast and easy it can be done.
Play an electronic hat or cymbal, then play an acoustic one. Still a huge difference. You seem sold though, so it's your turn to piss your money away. I'm done. Just under 20 thousand is what I threw away. :)
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:36 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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Play an electronic hat or cymbal, then play an acoustic one. Still a huge difference.
Yes but again there are a million different cymbals with different sounds they cant put them all in one module for you to pick and chose from. If you dont like the sound of the cymbals in your e kit then just record your acoustic cymbals and use that sound for your ekit then they will sound the same.
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:42 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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Originally Posted by tard View Post
Yes but again there are a million different cymbals with different sounds they cant put them all in one module for you to pick and chose from. If you dont like the sound of the cymbals in your e kit then just record your acoustic cymbals and use that sound for your ekit then they will sound the same.
You are missing my point. There are a million variations of sounds that you can play on one acoustic hat or cymbal. Not so on the electronic stuff. Not yet anyways. :)
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:54 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
It's all a case of what kind of music are you gonna play, and what kinda sound do you wanna have. If the bands you wanna get into want you to have an acoustic kit, then that's what you need.

There are plenty of electro/techno/industrial bands that have drummers on e-kits. But if you're not trying to pursue that type of music, don't expect Bubba's Blues Band, or most bands with "traditional" musical offerings, to embrace electronics.
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:57 AM
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Default Re: Getting taken seriously with an ekit

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Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
You are missing my point. There are a million variations of sounds that you can play on one acoustic hat or cymbal. Not so on the electronic stuff. Not yet anyways. :)
A million sound variations on an acoustic cymbal? You must have better cymbals than I as I can only crash and or pump the edge, do a swell, crash the edge and choke, ride the bell or ride the bow on my cymbals so I seem to be missing a few other than dynamics which can be applied to either.

Last edited by tard; 01-16-2012 at 04:12 AM.
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