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  #1  
Old 05-09-2014, 08:43 PM
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Default The glamorous side of drum building

1 toothbrush - 3 cleaning cycles - 2000 Origin & In-Tense lugs + memory locks - 6 hours! :(
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Old 05-09-2014, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

You must have some serious patience.
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

"Glamorous" is easy, but define "side" ?
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

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1 toothbrush - 3 cleaning cycles - 2000 Origin & In-Tense lugs + memory locks - 6 hours! :(
Andy,have you ever considered a case aka rock tumbler?Several drum restorers I know use one,and I have used them to clean and polich shell casings,as I reload my own ammo.I have also used it to clean and polish lugs and hardware,small enough to fit in the hopper.

They aren"t very expensive and there are various types of tumbling media available,with some able to highly polish metal.The machine tumbles and vibrates the metal to clean and polish it..This is just a larger version of what jewlers use to clean precious metals.Just a thought.:)

Steve B
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

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You must have some serious patience.
No, just sad :(

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"Glamorous" is easy, but define "side" ?
You got me there.

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Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
Andy,have you ever considered a case aka rock tumbler?Several drum restorers I know use one,and I have used them to clean and polich shell casings,as I reload my own ammo.I have also used it to clean and polish lugs and hardware,small enough to fit in the hopper.

They aren"t very expensive and there are various types of tumbling media available,with some able to highly polish metal.The machine tumbles and vibrates the metal to clean and polish it..This is just a larger version of what jewlers use to clean precious metals.Just a thought.:)

Steve B
Good suggestion Steve, but with an aluminium substrate & some fairly angular sections, the result wouldn't be pretty. I'm removing plating pickle residue buildup, & the best method is soaking in hot soapy water + agitate with nylon bristles. Most of it is internal, so tumbling/vibrating media don't work very well. I have to do this soon after plating, because if I leave it to harden, it's chemical removal method time :(
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:50 PM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

Andy, Is this a common side effect of the plating process?
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Old 05-09-2014, 11:35 PM
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Andy, Is this a common side effect of the plating process?
No, not really. The solutions used to plate aluminium are different to brass & pot metal (the most common plated metals used for drum shell components). Aluminium is very difficult to chrome plate to a good standard. The liquor tends to rest in small internal crevices & counterbores that exist in our design, as our components are both complex of form & made in one piece. Ultimately, the reason I do this is because I'm fussy :)

The lugs are dried thoroughly, then treated internally with an ETFE dry coating. The mating stainless steel tension screws are then pre-coated with a dry moly D treatment. This helps keep them smooth as we use small diameter fine threads.
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Old 05-10-2014, 01:02 AM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

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1 toothbrush - 3 cleaning cycles - 2000 Origin & In-Tense lugs + memory locks - 6 hours! :(
That's insane.... it sort of looks like the parts bin for a terminator
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Old 05-10-2014, 01:15 AM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

Hey, at least your nails were clean and your shin was exfoliated when you were finished. So stop bitchin!
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Old 05-10-2014, 01:49 AM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

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Andy, Is this a common side effect of the plating process?
I thought you were referring to Andy's attitude after being exposed to plating chemicals............. LOL

.
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Old 05-10-2014, 05:44 AM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

All I can think of is "wax on, wax off". I bet you are a karate master now.
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Old 05-10-2014, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

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Hey, at least your nails were clean and your shin was exfoliated when you were finished. So stop bitchin!
It's not like treading grapes Bob - lol!!!!!!

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That's insane.... it sort of looks like the parts bin for a terminator
A very expensive terminator, & a bit lightweight to be effective :)

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I thought you were referring to Andy's attitude after being exposed to plating chemicals............. LOL

.
Hahaha, no Jim. No exposure risk, just a bit of residue, but the process does drive me crazy. I have "claw hand" this morning, & that's not a good thing, as I'm about to spend the day doing bearing edges & drilling. I wouldn't want to drill a hole in my thumb! ;)

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All I can think of is "wax on, wax off". I bet you are a karate master now.
I think this kind of training is only suitable for fighting very small people :)

Last edited by keep it simple; 05-10-2014 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

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I have "claw hand" this morning, & that's not a good thing, as I'm about to spend the day doing bearing edges & drilling. I wouldn't want to drill a hole in my thumb! ;)

Touché ....................

.
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Old 05-10-2014, 12:01 PM
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"Glamorous" is easy, but define "side" ?
. . .
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Old 05-10-2014, 12:02 PM
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That's insane.... it sort of looks like the parts bin for a terminator
. . .
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Old 05-10-2014, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

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. . .
Almost sparkly, Henri!
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Old 05-10-2014, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

Do your lugs have steel threaded inserts in them, or is the aluminum threaded to receive the tension rod? I only ask because direct contact between aluminum and stainless steel will cause corrosion. Yes, you are putting on some dry grease for the threads, but its still not recommemded to put these two metals together. I know you have years of experience with testing these things, but what will happen with your lugs in 20 years? Will the tension rods be corroded to the aluminum lugs and the only course of action is to cut the lug off?

Just curious if you have thought about the 20/30/40 year plan for your drums. Standard steel tension rods with plating would alleviate this issue.
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  #18  
Old 05-10-2014, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

Henri,

epic photoshopping yet again :) Not sure what's happened to my neck in the second picture :(

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Do your lugs have steel threaded inserts in them, or is the aluminum threaded to receive the tension rod? I only ask because direct contact between aluminum and stainless steel will cause corrosion. Yes, you are putting on some dry grease for the threads, but its still not recommemded to put these two metals together. I know you have years of experience with testing these things, but what will happen with your lugs in 20 years? Will the tension rods be corroded to the aluminum lugs and the only course of action is to cut the lug off?

Just curious if you have thought about the 20/30/40 year plan for your drums. Standard steel tension rods with plating would alleviate this issue.
True, there is a risk of the aluminium corroding by galvanic means, but there needs to be some moisture present (electrolyte) for that to take hold. We use a very hard grade of aluminium, & the threads aren't cut, they're roll formed. The thread forming method not only increases thread strength significantly, it also further hardens the surface. This guards against both galling and corrosion, but of course, not completely. We've only run tests across a few years. During that time, there's been no issue whatsoever. One test included keeping the tension rod & lug moist in a saline environment, & keeping the screw static in the lug. Again, no issue, but that doesn't mean to say it won't happen. To further guard against issues, we pre treat the lug thread with an ETFE based dry lubricant that's designed to stay in place. Additionally, we moly coat the tension screw threads.

I'm reasonably satisfied that, so long as there's no significantly humid environment and/or wetness around the lugs over prolonged periods, they should be fine. Our lugs/tension screws should be lubricated each year as part of a general instrument maintenance regime. If this is done, I don't perceive any issues. I'd be much more concerned about constant exposure to high humidity levels re: the shells than I would with regards to the lugs.

Overall, stainless steel screws carry more benefits than they do possible downsides for us. Plated screws are typically of much lower tolerance in combination with the plating thicknesses/crevice migration. We bespoke manufacture our screws to our own design.
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Old 05-10-2014, 11:23 PM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

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Not sure what's happened to my neck in the second picture :(
I'm not sure either... :)

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Almost sparkly, Henri!
Yep... almost... when Andy's finished she will be... sparkly, glamorous and... dangerous!!!
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Old 05-11-2014, 12:05 AM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

Andy, have you looked at ultra sonic cleaning baths?

If that won't work and you really do need to use a manual process, then at least use a Dremel tool instead of a toothbrush.
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Old 05-11-2014, 12:15 AM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
1 toothbrush - 3 cleaning cycles - 2000 Origin & In-Tense lugs + memory locks - 6 hours! :(

So there 'is' a glamours side to drum building, thanks for sharing Andy!

I mean who knew really?
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Old 05-11-2014, 05:28 AM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

Maybe look into a used SMT stencil cleaner. There are both ultrasonic and spray under immersion types. A simple batch type with a lot of aggitation.

As for the corrosion, you could also gas nitride the tension rod threads. That makes them super hard and has a kind of lubricity to it.
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Old 05-11-2014, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

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Originally Posted by Mad About Drums View Post
Yep... almost... when Andy's finished she will be... sparkly, glamorous and... dangerous!!!
.
Even more epic photoshopping Henri. I love this "collage" :)

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If that won't work and you really do need to use a manual process, then at least use a Dremel tool instead of a toothbrush.
I don't know. It's not something I have to do so often (at least, not in these numbers), & there's something "safe" & hands on I like about te humble toothbrush. After soaking, the residue requires very little agitation to fall away completely. It's not as if I'm scrubbing hard.

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Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
So there 'is' a glamours side to drum building, thanks for sharing Andy!

I mean who knew really?
I just thought a bit of real world day to day insight would be interesting :)

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Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
Maybe look into a used SMT stencil cleaner. There are both ultrasonic and spray under immersion types. A simple batch type with a lot of aggitation.

As for the corrosion, you could also gas nitride the tension rod threads. That makes them super hard and has a kind of lubricity to it.
Thanks for this info, but I have to clean like tis so infrequently, it's not an issue. If this was a weekly thing, whole different approach.

As for treating the stainless steel tension screws, they're already more than hard enough, & part of the reason for choosing stainless steel was that it doesn't require further processing.
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Old 05-12-2014, 05:11 PM
TheHeelDrummer TheHeelDrummer is offline
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

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1 toothbrush - 3 cleaning cycles - 2000 Origin & In-Tense lugs + memory locks - 6 hours! :(
Man... That blows. :)
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:27 PM
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Man... That blows. :)
Yup !
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: The glamorous side of drum building

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Andy, have you looked at ultra sonic cleaning baths?

If that won't work and you really do need to use a manual process, then at least use a Dremel tool instead of a toothbrush.
Or perhaps, dare I suggest, a slight re-design to remove some of the nooks and crannies?

I know you guys worked very long hours designing these lugs, however, sometimes in the manufacturing process issues like this only come to light in the actual manufacturing, once the final product is created, plated etc.

I know the Guru series of drums will never be super high volume, in terms of numbers produced, but just a small change to a couple of radii could reduce your claw hand?

These upgrades/revisions could then go onto enhance/influence future lug designs.
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