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  #1  
Old 05-08-2012, 09:59 PM
crickbutcher crickbutcher is offline
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Default Drum Sizes?

Hi all, I'm new to the forums! I just recently got an endorsement from Battlefield Drums and I need to order my kit. I really wanna know more about drum sizes before I order my kit.

I currently have a 22x20 Bass Drum 12x9 Tom, and 16x14 Floor Tom

I was thinking about doing 22x18 Kick and getting deeper toms like maybe 12x10 or 13x10. and keeping the floor tom the same maybe.

What would be the difference in a 24x18 bass drum and a 22x18 bass drum?
And what would be the difference in a 12x9 or 12x10 rack tom?

Thanks!

-Crick Butcher!
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  #2  
Old 05-08-2012, 10:21 PM
cornelius cornelius is offline
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

The deeper the shells, the muddier they sound, and the more unresponsive they feel.

Shallower depths; the floor tom size is great - I'd stick with the 9x12, or an 8x12 (magic size). If you're looking for more low end from the kik, then go with a 14x24 or 16x24. Anything deeper than 16 is overkill...
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:41 PM
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wsabol wsabol is offline
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

First off, welcome to the forum.

There are many threads that go into detail on this. Use the search button. In general, cornelius is correct.
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  #4  
Old 05-08-2012, 10:50 PM
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

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Originally Posted by cornelius View Post
If you're looking for more low end from the kik, then go with a 14x24 or 16x24. Anything deeper than 16 is overkill...
I highly but respectfully disagree. I don't know what the deepest bass drum is available by company's, I don't think I've seen anything deeper than 20x22 but 16" deep is very shallow and may not create the type of tone people look for out of a bass drum.

EDIT: I should of elaborated and said 16" deep is a bit shallow for some people.

Last edited by PDPx7Drummer; 05-09-2012 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:51 PM
crickbutcher crickbutcher is offline
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

ok, I am looking for a nice deep sound in the rack tom and the way i have it now with my 12x9 is that its pretty much tuned as low as it can go before the head wrinkles so i think im gonna do a 13x9 rack tom.

For the bass I am definitely gonna go with the 24. and i think i will go x18. I play a pop/punk kind of rock kind of style. Im just not sure about the smaller 16 or even 14 sizes. will that be loud enough?
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  #6  
Old 05-08-2012, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

It's not just about the sizes, it's also about the wood, thickness of the shell and bearing edge. Is there a link to this drum company and with info about the drums being made?
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crickbutcher View Post
ok, I am looking for a nice deep sound in the rack tom and the way i have it now with my 12x9 is that its pretty much tuned as low as it can go before the head wrinkles so i think im gonna do a 13x9 rack tom.

For the bass I am definitely gonna go with the 24. and i think i will go x18. I play a pop/punk kind of rock kind of style. Im just not sure about the smaller 16 or even 14 sizes. will that be loud enough?
If you have the 12" tom tuned as low as it can go and you find yourself wanting a deeper tone, go for the 13" tom. Good move. I did that and couldn't be happier.

If you generally like big huge low end out of your drums, I'd stick with bigger diameters. You'll probably like that.
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  #8  
Old 05-08-2012, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crickbutcher View Post
ok, I am looking for a nice deep sound in the rack tom and the way i have it now with my 12x9 is that its pretty much tuned as low as it can go before the head wrinkles so i think im gonna do a 13x9 rack tom.

For the bass I am definitely gonna go with the 24. and i think i will go x18. I play a pop/punk kind of rock kind of style. Im just not sure about the smaller 16 or even 14 sizes. will that be loud enough?
yes. Depth doesn't directly translate to volume and projection.

Up until about the 80s, all bass drums were 14" deep, So Bonham, Peart, Keith Moon, Ginger Baker, etc, etc... all those guys had 14" deep kicks, and they sound awesome. Saying 16" is "very shallow" is ridiculous. I've heard 8" deep kicks sound freaking sweet--that's shallow.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:51 PM
Drumolator Drumolator is offline
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

Nice and deep sounding to the drummer behind the kit often translates to cardboard box sounding to people listening twenty feet away. Peace, goodwill, and blues.
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  #10  
Old 05-08-2012, 11:55 PM
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsabol View Post
yes. Depth doesn't directly translate to volume and projection.

Up until about the 80s, all bass drums were 14" deep, So Bonham, Peart, Keith Moon, Ginger Baker, etc, etc... all those guys had 14" deep kicks, and they sound awesome. Saying 16" is "very shallow" is ridiculous. I've heard 8" deep kicks sound freaking sweet--that's shallow.

This^^^ backed

I've had 22x20, 22x18, 22x16, and 22x14 kicks. The 22x14 cuts better because it's more punchy. I sold the 22x20 as soon as I could, and I have a same company series/same wood drum in 26x16 that destroys it Tone/Projection wise.

If you already have a 22x20 why not get something like a 22x16? have a deep and a more shallow kick. If you want a 24, my 24x14 is the loudest bass drum I own. I'd love a wood 24x14 in the future.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

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Originally Posted by PDPx7Drummer View Post
16" deep is very shallow and may not create the type of tone people look for out of a bass drum.
16" was considered the "power" depth when they were first popular. I have owned 16x24s that shook walls. My roommate has a '60s Rogers 14x24 that is amazing. My main kick is a 16x26. I kind of wish I had gone with a 14. I also own 2 18x22s. I think the 14s and 16s sound more round and full.
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  #12  
Old 05-09-2012, 12:00 AM
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsabol View Post
yes. Depth doesn't directly translate to volume and projection. Saying 16" is "very shallow" is ridiculous. I've heard 8" deep kicks sound freaking sweet--that's shallow.
8" deep bass drum, really lol? :)

I didn't say other sizes don't sound good, they all serve their prupose and have their own character. Acting as if I meant something as fact is ridiculous. I meant too shallow for some and possibly not for others. Just because Bonham's kick fit the sound of Zep sounded good to him and others doesn't mean it sounds good to all.

I personally like the looks of a bit longer and normal width bass drum as to the tall and shallow bass drums. That could be a reason to go that deep as well.
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:07 AM
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  #13  
Old 05-09-2012, 12:29 AM
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

lol that's pretty cool wildbill, nice work! Any video of it in action? :)

Please don't get me wrong, which I edited my first post to add, that I didn't mean 16" is too shallow in general, just that it may be for some people whether in how it sounds or how it looks. I just didn't find the comment of anything over 16" deep being overkill a valid comment.
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  #14  
Old 05-09-2012, 12:31 AM
audiotech
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

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Originally Posted by PDP x7 Drums View Post
It's not just about the sizes, it's also about the wood, thickness of the shell and bearing edge.
And also the heads and particularly the drums tuning. I particularly don't care for bass drums over 18" in depth, it seems like a lot of wasted leg power to get all that air moving, especially if you're interested in Hugh amounts of BPM. I love my 22 x 18 and 22 x 16" bass drums and my 18" deep bass drums do not have less definition than the 16". I already paid my dues playing my dad's 28" x 16" Ludwigs years ago. It was insane but very interesting sounding.

Dennis
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  #15  
Old 05-09-2012, 12:45 AM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

Depth is really a matter of taste, and usually the music at hand.

I've never had a problem getting all the lows, and punch, and response I want from 14" deep kicks, and I also have some 16" deep that serve me well. The first - and last - 18x22" kick felt bad to my foot, and was too woofy to be of much use to me. It was gone within 3 months.

I've heard some that sound good (though not great...) but I've heard more that sound flappy, dead, or if they're lucky, woofy.

Bermuda
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  #16  
Old 05-09-2012, 03:26 AM
crickbutcher crickbutcher is offline
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

Ok, I still would feel weird with anything smaller than 16", but thats just me. I talked with a couple different drummers, Offspring, Relient K and their opinion was 24" but didnt give me anything on the depth. Im probably gonna go with 18" in Depth cuz I have a yamaha that is 22x18 and thats a nice kick. the 2 inches around will definitely give me a deeper sound.
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  #17  
Old 05-09-2012, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
And also the heads and particularly the drums tuning. I particularly don't care for bass drums over 18" in depth, it seems like a lot of wasted leg power to get all that air moving, especially if you're interested in Hugh amounts of BPM. I love my 22 x 18 and 22 x 16" bass drums and my 18" deep bass drums do not have less definition than the 16". I already paid my dues playing my dad's 28" x 16" Ludwigs years ago. It was insane but very interesting sounding.

Dennis
lol 28" wow! Were you eye level with the rear of the bass drum lol! :D

Also absolutely about the drum heads and tuning, I forgot to mention that as well.

As for wasted energy and the need of shallow bass drums for high BPM, I'm not sure that's completely logical with such short distances. I don't recall metal drummers needing 20x14 bass drums in order to have constant and true high BPM beats. The PDP X7 has really thin shells and a size of 22x18 and it seems pretty sensitive and loud to me. It could be because I'm in a fairly small room as well but I honestly don't understand that thought about needing extra leg power even at 18". Now for some weird prototype combo of like 28x48" deep or more I could see it being a bit harder lol but wouldn't a very thick bass drum shell help with the loudness, as well as the cut and drum head? My lack of experience with shallower bass drums could hinder my understanding here but I just can't see there being such an extreme difference in power needs when going from a 14 - 16 - 18 or even 20" deep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
The first - and last - 18x22" kick felt bad to my foot, and was too woofy to be of much use to me. It was gone within 3 months.

I've heard some that sound good (though not great...) but I've heard more that sound flappy, dead, or if they're lucky, woofy.

Bermuda
Bermuda can you explain why a 2" difference in depth can give you a bad feeling against your foot when with an 18" deep bass? Also wouldn't it stand to reason that the wider the bass drum is the more flappy and woofy it would be? The bigger the skin the more surface area that moves and the more floppy of a sound it would tend to have.

I'm just blown away at all the hate for an 18" deep bass drum lol, it's as if anything bigger than 16" are the devil childs of bass drums and are outcasts lmao! :)
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  #18  
Old 05-09-2012, 04:57 AM
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wildbill wildbill is offline
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

My experience has been that shallow depth gives more punch, immediate response, and requires less effort for a comparable volume. A greater depth gives more boom, more 'woofiness' - as Bermuda says, and requires more effort for a comparable volume.

Diameter contributes to pitch, of course. But other factors such as tuning, wood type, head selection, and so on, can make the difference less than it would seem, just judging strictly by size.
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDPx7Drummer View Post

lol that's pretty cool wildbill, nice work! Any video of it in action? :)
...

Sorry, no.
No video camera and I'm not too up on that type of stuff.
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:29 AM
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PDPx7Drummer View Post
Bermuda can you explain why a 2" difference in depth can give you a bad feeling against your foot when with an 18" deep bass? Also wouldn't it stand to reason that the wider the bass drum is the more flappy and woofy it would be? The bigger the skin the more surface area that moves and the more floppy of a sound it would tend to have.
There's undoubtedly a physical explanation for why 2" in depth tends to be more of a difference than 2" in diameter, for example. I don't know what that formula is. I do know there's a noticeable difference between an 18" deep kick, and a 16". More so it seems than between a 16" and 14". Don't know why that is, 16-18 just seems to be a critical point.

A 22" diameter kick is particularly susceptible to the differences. I have less of a problem with an 18x24", although I still don't prefer it to the 16 or 14" depths. Actually, my six 24" kicks are all 14" deep. And they each sound fabulous.

Bermuda
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:32 AM
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Default Re: Drum Sizes?

How did 20" depth kicks become the new thing anyway? Was it the boutique makers trying to set themselves apart, and other makers trying it out? Every kick that deep I've played on has so much, for lack of a better term, "whump", that it just killed the tone...granted, it's only been two drums. Also, they are ugly, barrel looking mothers.
/rant

All my kits have 16" deep kicks and I love them. Two 20"x16" and one 22"x16". You said you play mostly pop punk? If it were me, I'd go 20"x16", 12"x8", and 16"x16". Lots of punch out of the bass, I'd tune the 12" higher than the floor to get more of a cutting sound, and the 16" low, like JAW low...but that's me.
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
Sorry, no.
No video camera and I'm not too up on that type of stuff.
That's quite alright bill, I understand completely. Thanks for the reply's and explanations.

Salute.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Actually, my six 24" kicks are all 14" deep. And they each sound fabulous.

Bermuda
O_O

Six bass drums lol! Nice. Also thanks to you for the replys Bermuda. Maybe one day I'll get the chance to experience a bit more with different sets and be able to really get a feel between them all.

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ugly, barrel looking mothers. /rant
lulz! :)
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  #23  
Old 05-09-2012, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post

There's undoubtedly a physical explanation for why 2" in depth tends to be more of a difference than 2" in diameter, for example. I don't know what that formula is....

http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/v...rcle_area.html


Circumference = pi*r squared. For a 22 inch bass, r = 11. 11 squared = 121. Multiply that by pi (3.14), and you get 379.94.

So for each inch of added depth, you're moving about 380 cubic inches more of air.

For a 20 inch bass, r = 10. 10 squared = 100. 100*3.14 = 314. So for each added inch of depth on a 20", you're moving an extra 314 cubic inches compared to 380 on the 22".

For an 18" - r = 9. 9 squared = 81. 81*3.14 = 254.

In other words, as diameter is increased, a corresponding depth increase will have more of an effect.

For example, if you increase an 18" bass 2 inches in depth, you'll be pushing 2*254 = 508 more inches of air.

If you increase a 22" bass the same 2 inches in depth, you'll be pushing 2*380 = 760 more inches of air.

Also, keeping diameter the same - 22" ; 22x14 = 5,320 inches of air. 22x20 = 7,600. You're pushing 2,280 more inches of air with a 22x20 as compared to a 22x14. More than half again as much.

The inverse is also true. If you decrease depth while keeping diameter the same you'll be pushing less air which results in faster response, and less sluggishness.

Easier to feel and hear than it is to describe.


EDIT: I should have given one more example: the 22 x 7" kick in the post above = 2,660, compared to a 22 x 20" = 7,600. Quite a difference.

22x7 is even quite a bit less than the 3,556 of an 18 x 14".


.

Last edited by wildbill; 05-13-2012 at 06:20 AM.
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
I feel smarter having read that. A brofist to you.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:57 PM
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Excellent wilbill, thanks!

Bermuda
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:34 PM
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I feel smarter having read that. A brofist to you.
Actually I don't know if I feel smarter or dumber lol! Though I do appreciate your time to lay it all out to us wildbill.

Salute.
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