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  #1  
Old 01-22-2009, 02:56 PM
johnhavart johnhavart is offline
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Default Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

Has anybody have the Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD by Danny Gottlieb and Joe Morello ?

Thanks in advance for your help
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Old 01-22-2009, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

Yes, I have it. It is one of the best in the series. Although if you are not familiar with Morello's techniques, you should probably start with the beginning DVDs and work you way up. There is also a great DVD by Morello through Hot Licks that is a must have.
http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Morello-1-.../dp/B000E6FVVI

Jeff
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

John emailed me and asked a bit more about the Moeller on the videos. I thought it would also be helpful to post my response here, in case the information could be of use to others.

Quote:
John,

I'm not sure which video has Moeller - either 3-4, 5-6, or both. I haven't watched them in a while.

Since I studied with Morello, I can tell you that his modified Moeller with the right had was a motion like cracking a whip or throwing a ball at the drum head. His left hand was like shaking an old style thermometer.

Many people seem to think that the Moeller is the magic technique, suitable for every situation. Morello says that the Moeller is good for one accent in a group of notes (accenting every 2nd,3rd,4th note etc.) Two accents in a row (with the same hand) are accomplished the level system (utilizing full strokes) or a straight forearm throw. I believe all of that is also in the series with Gottlieb and Morello.

Please feel free to email again if you have any questions.

Jeff
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:38 PM
johnhavart johnhavart is offline
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

Jeff, many many thanks for your reply.

Moeller is often described as a whip motion. So in your opinion what is the difference between Morello "modified" moeller and "traditional" moeller ?

John
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:35 AM
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

This is Moeller. It is not modified.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0t0kfKET3A

Here it is in action in a big band setting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxtea...eature=related

So that really doen't answer the question.

How did he modify it?

Everyone modifies technique for their own use.
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:07 AM
johnhavart johnhavart is offline
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

Thanks Jeff and Deltadrummer for your explanation and videos

at this stage, my guess is Morello's modified moeller is a low one which includes finger control. The whipping motion might be also modified in specific cicumstances although I also don't see any difference in this video but maybe I'm wrong ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0t0kfKET3A
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:11 PM
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

I think Dom Famularo's explanation is a good way to look at it. Stone technique or freestroke, or rebound is a formal technique and the Moeller is an informal technique. Stone came from a classical background. Moeller is a marching technique. He got his ideas from old military men. There are various techniques out there, and these two have become popular over the last twenty years, and even more so now with video.

When it comes down to what the Moller technique is, people will disagree. Does Moeller rely on the rebound? for example. Some say yes, some say no. People will say that someone else is wrong. At a clinic, Weckl once said that Freddie Gruber is the only one that teaches proper technique, which is based on the rebound. He's Dave Weckl, but he is still wrong. A statement like that will only incense people.

Players modify techniques for their own use. I use Moeller; but I don't use a power grip. Some would say, that is not really Moeller. It doesn't really matter if it gets the job done.
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:01 PM
johnhavart johnhavart is offline
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltadrummer View Post
Does Moeller rely on the rebound? for example. Some say yes, some say no. People will say that someone else is wrong. At a clinic, Weckl once said that Freddie Gruber is the only one that teaches proper technique, which is based on the rebound. He's Dave Weckl, but he is still wrong. A statement like that will only incense people.
Jim Chapin also disagrees with the rebound although in his video he seems to accept it in some circumstances !...By the way what do you call a power grip ?
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltadrummer View Post
At a clinic, Weckl once said that Freddie Gruber is the only one that teaches proper technique, which is based on the rebound. He's Dave Weckl, but he is still wrong. A statement like that will only incense people.
Sounds more like a Tom Cruise statement - ha ha.
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:50 PM
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

John,

What area are you in? There are some great instructors who can show you the techniques one on one.

In NJ - Joe Morello who studies with Stone and Gladstone
In NY - Dom Famularo who studied with Chapin and Morello
In MD - Steve Fidyk who studied with Morello and Chapin
In FL - Danny Gottlieb who studied extensively with Morello

Jeff
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:41 PM
johnhavart johnhavart is offline
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

Jeff and Deltadrummer,

Thanks for your help

I actually live in France but come once one or two years to the US !...

So to improve my drumming, I mainly work on videos as here very few drummers teach Moeller (my dream would have been to study with Joe Morello, Danny Gottlieb, Dom Famularo, Jim Chapin or one of their "disciples").

John
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

Dom has a new studio, and will be having cyber lessons from it shortly. You'll be able to ask questions and get advice via the web.
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:57 PM
johnhavart johnhavart is offline
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

Cyberlessons constitue an interesting alternative !

Jeff or anybody else "qualified in Moeller", I would be also grateful to you if you could also confirm the whip motion that Joe Morello does is the same as the "original" Moeller ?

Thanks

john
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhavart View Post
Cyberlessons constitue an interesting alternative !

Jeff or anybody else "qualified in Moeller", I would be also grateful to you if you could also confirm the whip motion that Joe Morello does is the same as the "original" Moeller ?

Thanks

john
I would have to say that the "original Moeller" would be the one passed down from Moeller himself. This is seen in Moeller's prize student, Jim Chapin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yNb-kUPwMI

Morello's adaptation is similar, but not exactly the same. Morello studied with Stone and Gladstone, but when Joe inquired about lessons with Moeller, Moeller was getting older and not taking on students. The whipping motion is similar, but the hand hold is different. Compare the above video to the video that Ken was talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0t0kfKET3A

Jeff
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Old 01-24-2009, 10:52 AM
johnhavart johnhavart is offline
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

Dear colleagues using Moeller

First of all, thanks Jeff and deltadrummer for your input

At a first glance, this would be my first interpretation of the difference between "original Moeller (passed down to Chapin)" and Morello's adaptation, considering only the right hand, in a matched grip perspective.


In Chapin's video, the grip is "(marching) german" and doesn't use fingers (more difficult with this grip)

In Morello's video the initial grip is american and could tend to "French" after the whipping motion which facilicitates the use of fingers at hign speed (fingers = "Moeller contreversy"). This seems to be the basis of Morello's one handed roll version using his adaptation of the original Moeller.

Don''t hesitate to correct me if I am wrong

John
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Old 01-24-2009, 11:05 AM
johnhavart johnhavart is offline
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

precision to my last post

is power grip the same thing as german grip ?
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  #17  
Old 01-25-2009, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

No, the power grip uses the middle finger as the focal point of the fulcrum as opposed to the index finger, which is kept loose and relaxed; it is straight out. If you watched the Morello video on Moeller, you can see that he is actually switching between index finger and middle finger fulcrum. This is because each will grant you a different affect. The index finger fulcrum allows for cleaner, more precise and refined playing. See how he uses that for clean low level single stroke rolls. It is good for double and press rolls as well. The power grip allows for much more, well, power. See how he uses that for the whip. You can also get a lot of speed there, and many guys uses it for riding patterns.

In Dom's ' teaching, there are two fundmental techniques: formal/Stone and informal/Moeller. Each of these can be played in any grip: French, German or Switzerland, (that area in between right in the crack of the hand) even traditional.and at various stroke levels: full stroke, half stroke or low stroke, That gives you a wide range of playing option right there. But he uses a power grip as opposed to an index finger fulcrum. You can see how the "range of motion," the combinations on the playing field, can be quite numerous allowing the player an arsenal of playing options for the task at hand.
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  #18  
Old 01-26-2009, 11:36 PM
johnhavart johnhavart is offline
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Default Re: Natural drumming lessons 5&6 DVD

Ken,

Many thanks for your reply

John
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