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Old 11-07-2012, 11:14 AM
Witterings Witterings is offline
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Default Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

Hi all,
Sorry it's going to be long winded post this one but I'm really interested to see what other people's opinions are on a situation and where people stand on band etiquette / nicking people from a band you're in to work in another band.
As I'm sure most of us have experienced I've spent years trying to put bands together, posting adverts, trying people out to be 2 months into rehearsing and someone says the musics not for me and the band falls apart and you're back to square one again as someone else says well we're not a complete band now so I'm going to leave and join a "gig ready" band - this in itself can be totally soul destroying as you try to get up to gig standard with the same set list for an 8th time and just as you're getting there it comes to an abrupt halt

With family and social life as well I got fed up trawling out Friday and Saturday evenings to drive miles to do a gig and not even cover the cost of ppetrol so I decided I was going to try and set up a band just to do weekday gigs and avoid weekends playing mainly for the love of it rather than money and just doing local venues so it doesn't cost a fortune in petrol.

The advert I placed very specifically said looking for Guitarist or Bassist or Vocalist for Mid Week Gigs and not looking to do weekends as I thought there must be people in the same situation as me but still wanted to play and was absolutely up front about if from the start including raising concerns that people may not want to be in a band that doesn't do weekend gigs.

The people I had applying were often in other bands which were doing weekend gigs and saw this as a great opportunity to do something else mid week to get more of their "FIX" without interfering with their other band.

The bass player and guitarist have since had problems with their own bands and are wondering what future they hold so have gone behind my back and started talking about putting together another band to do functions / weddings at the weekends.
When I found out I didn't say anything although I was a bit put out and thought as long as it doesn't interfere with my band OK, bite your tongue.
The female vocalist we have is someone I knew from a band a few years ago and hadn't done anything for over 2 / 3 years and it was me that bought her in to join us and I found out yesterday that they've also approached her to see if she wants to join them and that they have another drummer which is from the guitarists other band which he thinks is falling apart because of their lead singer.
In essence I see this as them taking my band that I've taken 7 years to try and find, the right people for and getting a different drummer so they can do weekends as well when they all knew right from the start that it was being set up as a mid week band only.

The bass player I believe has been the main influence behind it, he seems like a really nice guy on the surface but is a little either OCD about playing to the extent of someone who works with special needs children saying it really wouldn't surprise him if he had an incredibly mild case of autism or asperger's.
I don't have a problem with that and if he wants to play every minute of his life then please do, but don't walk in and take my band members but instead get off your own ass as I've done, write and post your own adverts and find your own people don't just go nicking others people's from behind their back !!!
The guitarist, again they have "issues" with their singer at the moment, not a problem, write you own adverts and go through the audition process and take years, as I have to find your own people, don't just nick them from a band that someone else has put the hard work in trying to put together.
These people have all been welcomed into my home where we rehearse and for the 1st few months I was also an endless supply of beer to them and now I just feel like I've been totally shat upon from a great height and am genuinely really hurt ... especially as and I thought the bass player had become a close friend!
A guitarist I played with a while ago but had to stop because of his work commitments nipped into where I worked yesterday and I told him what had happened, he knows how hard I've worked to put this together and just sat there and said, "I'm absolutely livid, he said I'm so enraged I'm shaking for you, on a scale of 1 to 10 of how out of order I think that is I think it's an 11.

I could just stand back and say OK so they're going to do weekend gigs and we'll keep the week day thing going but are they seriously going to have 2 totally different set lists or just the one so they don't have to learn it all again in which case they'll have one band that uses 2 drummers ........ one for mid week gigs and the other for weekends.
I honestly can't see that'll work long term as why are they going to want to rehearse the same set list twice just so 2 different drummers are up to gig standard and when the other drummers says he can do weekdays as well what happens then, I think I can see where this is heading!

I was bought up thinking if you're invited round to a friends for dinner and they have another couple there, you don't start asking the other couple behind your hosts back if they'd like to go out some time or come round to yours for dinner without the host, maybe I was bought up in an old fashioned way but that's what I've believed to be right and it's how I've treated etiquette in bands / band members.

Apologies for such a long post and I really do appreciate anyone that's taken the time to read it all and posts a reply! As you may have gathered I feel genuinely aggrieved and hurt, especially as I thought one had become a close friend and he seems to be the main instigator going behind my back, I really would be interested to hear what other people's opinions are and if you think I'm being too precious about it or do you think I've been seriously shit upon but they waited until my mouth was open to do it ???

I'm really feeling I play for the love of playing and I've totally lost trust in these people. That's making me ask if they're really like that............ do I want to be in a band with or have anything to do with them and I'll constantly be watching my back.

Any input, even if it's to tell me I'm being a complete twat over it and I have a distorted view of it really would be greatly appreciated, or any idea's what you'd do in this situation ???

This is an edit with a bit of an afterthought, I could of found it easier to swallow if they'd all got together with me and said sorry things have changed and we all want to do weekend gigs now will you join us instead of going behind my back and finding another drummer instead !!!!
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:41 AM
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

Unless they're getting paid for regular work with you, you're gonna struggle to claim any hold over them.

Two things in your post stand out to me. "Avoid weekends" and "playing mainly for the love of it." In all honesty, they are just not words that instill confidence in people trying to earn from their talents. For mine, it stands to reason they may want to branch out and do a little more. Just because you want to pick and choose what terms you're prepared to take, is it really reasonable to expect that they must also follow suit? And similarly, just because they've agreed to those terms, is it also reasonable to expect that they can't take other work on weekends as well?
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:56 AM
Witterings Witterings is offline
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Unless they're getting paid for regular work with you, you're gonna struggle to claim any hold over them.

Two things in your post stand out to me. "Avoid weekends" and "playing mainly for the love of it." In all honesty, they are just not words that instill confidence in people trying to earn from their talents. For mine, it stands to reason they may want to branch out and do a little more. Just because you want to pick and choose what terms you're prepared to take, is it really reasonable to expect that they must also follow suit? And similarly, just because they've agreed to those terms, is it also reasonable to expect that they can't take other work on weekends as well?
Yes except when someone advertises mid week only why apply if you want go and do weekend gigs with that band, much the same as I'm not applying for bands that are "Working bands" as I know that'll predominantly be weekend work !!
Also none of these people do it for a living it's just a hobby and supposedly some "mates" getting together to play and if we happen to earn some money along the way then great that's just an added bonus.
I'm not stopping them from being in as many bands as they like, I'm only asking that what they do doesn't interfere with a band I've worked so hard to put together and maybe to show the slightest bit of loyalty to the person that bought them together in the 1st place.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:59 AM
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

Yeah, I agree with Pocket here. In a way, you have determined your own fate a bit by insisting on only doing stuff mid-week and sticking to it. It'll probably take a commitment of willingness to do weekends [and pretty much anything else they asked] to keep the position.
While it sucks to see the whole thing getting away from you like that, put yourself in the position of them. They see a future, and understand that they need to play weekends. How long will they be willing to put up with a two-drummer concept? That means double the rehearsals for them, which could potentially be double the frustration, which could potentially be taken out on you.
If it was me, I'd do one of two things: either commit completely, or start looking for other people to play music with on weekdays.
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:13 PM
Witterings Witterings is offline
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

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If it was me, I'd do one of two things: either commit completely, or start looking for other people to play music with on weekdays.
But aren't you missing the whole point of what I posted that's exactly what I did do !!!!!!!!!!

Right from the very start the advert said ONLY for mid week gigs, when I spoke to each and every one of them I said I don't want to do weekends because of family commitments and if that's what you're looking to do this isn't the band for you !!!!!!

I very clearly spelt it out right from them seeing the advert and when I spoke to them before they even came round for a trial !!!!!!!!!! How much clearer could I of been ???????? What should I of said ????
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
Yes except when someone advertises mid week only why apply if you want go and do weekend gigs with that band, much the same as I'm not applying for bands that are "Working bands" as I know that'll predominantly be weekend work !!
Also none of these people do it for a living it's just a hobby and supposedly some "mates" getting together to play and if we happen to earn some money along the way then great that's just an added bonus.
I'm not stopping them from being in as many bands as they like, I'm only asking that what they do doesn't interfere with a band I've worked so hard to put together and maybe to show the slightest bit of loyalty to the person that bought them together in the 1st place.
Quite simply, the bands that work regularly and whose members get paid stand a better chance of keeping said members. Even then, it's no guarantee. Such is the fickleness of the path we've chosen mate. But all in all, regardless of if they're full time musos or not, most guys like regular work with some financial rewards to boot. If you can offer that, great. If you're not, then be prepared for guys to move on to a gig that can.....even the guys who are initially happy to play on a Tuesday night for nothing usually want to branch out once they realise that they can actually earn from their services.
In my experience, most "working musos" expect to be paid.....full time professional or part time journeyman alike. 'Tis the way of it I'm afraid.
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:15 PM
Witterings Witterings is offline
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

Though I'd post an exact copy of the advert in case I hadn't been clear in it at all

Midweek Gig / Looking For Musicians


Married with kids, have a social life and don't want to be out gigging every Friday and Saturday night but still love music - - - does this sound familiar.
There must be other people out there in the same situation as me and my love of playing is too much to give it up altogether.
I can practice / gig Mondays though to Thursdays and want to try and put a band together to go out and get Mid Week gigs and am happy to work with pubs charging less initially and more as we gain a following and can bring a crowd.
I'd ike to hear from any Bass Player's, Guitarists, Vocalists and Keyboardist that think they may fit. I possibly have a very good Rhythm Guitarist / Vocalist I could coerce into joining us and have played with / gigged extensively in the past.
Looking to mainly do covers and will consider most music that will be well received in a pub but also happy to mess around with the occassional original and want this to be fun, for the love of playing and because people want to be there doing what they like best with other competant musicians.
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:19 PM
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

But I don't see anything in that ad that asks for exclusivity though mate.
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:25 PM
Witterings Witterings is offline
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But I don't see anything in that ad that asks for exclusivity though mate.
But I've never asked for exclusivity only that they don't take apart something that I've put together, as I say they each individually go and start or join as many band as they like !!!
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:37 PM
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But I've never asked for exclusivity only that they don't take apart something that I've put together, as I say they each individually go and start or join as many band as they like !!!
But I still don't get how it is taking apart what you've put together? They want to expand and work weekends. You've always said you don't want to, so they've found someone who does and are going for it.

They were in other bands when you hooked up, all that's changed is that "other band" will now be a few of the same guys who are in your band. This sort of stuff happens every day of the week. Musicians who are familiar with one another work together in different projects all the time. I really don't get the big deal mate. Unless they start doing mid-week gigs with the other drummer, I really don't see how you're being put out here.
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

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I'm really feeling I play for the love of playing and I've totally lost trust in these people. That's making me ask if they're really like that............ do I want to be in a band with or have anything to do with them and I'll constantly be watching my back.
My general feelings would be somewhere around this.

If a person does something that goes against my basic groundwork of principals (lying, cheating, stealing, etc) then there's usually very little that can be done to bring it back. Some lines are only able to be crossed one way.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:00 PM
Witterings Witterings is offline
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But I still don't get how it is taking apart what you've put together? They want to expand and work weekends. You've always said you don't want to, so they've found someone who does and are going for it.

They were in other bands when you hooked up, all that's changed is that "other band" will now be a few of the same guys who are in your band. This sort of stuff happens every day of the week. Musicians who are familiar with one another work together in different projects all the time. I really don't get the big deal mate. Unless they start doing mid-week gigs with the other drummer, I really don't see how you're being put out here.
I just honestly don't see down the road that they're going to want to rehearse the same set list with 2 different drummers, use one during the week and the other at weekends when the chances are the one doing the weekends can probably do the weekdays as well and if they do it'll only last a short while.
I could be wrong .................... but I doubt it!
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:01 PM
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My general feelings would be somewhere around this.

If a person does something that goes against my basic groundwork of principals (lying, cheating, stealing, etc) then there's usually very little that can be done to bring it back. Some lines are only able to be crossed one way.
At least someone kind of gets where I'm at!
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:01 PM
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

Witt, it seem to me that you're looking for players who don't want to gig weekends but instead you're finding weekend giggers who just want to play out more.

A lot of people aren't wild about midweek gigs because it can be hard to back up for work the next day.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:11 PM
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But aren't you missing the whole point of what I posted that's exactly what I did do !!!!!!!!!!

Right from the very start the advert said ONLY for mid week gigs, when I spoke to each and every one of them I said I don't want to do weekends because of family commitments and if that's what you're looking to do this isn't the band for you !!!!!!

I very clearly spelt it out right from them seeing the advert and when I spoke to them before they even came round for a trial !!!!!!!!!! How much clearer could I of been ???????? What should I of said ????
I understand your frustration, and I get it. But I think that, given what parameters you've laid down, you'd have to eventually expect problems to arise. How else could you not? Sure, many of your bandmembers may have felt that weekdays would be okay at the start, but perhaps the band had gotten good enough to the point where people thought they'd like to pursue it further. It's not only natural for a band to progress in some direction, but it can be almost destructive to try and slow a band's progress, especially if everyone else in the band wants to do something.
And I understand you tried to be as clear as possible in your advert. Problem is, everybody reads things differently, and some people only catch the keywords they're looking for. One might think, "yeah, this will be fun for awhile until something better comes along," and how can you fault them for that?
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:15 PM
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

Plenty of people will read an advert but overlook the finer details because the simple/general prospect e.g JOIN BAND is staring them in the face.

I don't think you're being a twat, I think you have every right to feel the way you do, you present your case well and I think you should tell them exactly what you said here and see what reaction you get, if only to get some reassurance that they're not going to cut you out. Maybe they don't realize what they're doing is slack.

How did you find out anyway?
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:05 PM
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How did you find out anyway?
We'd been struggling for a place to rehearse and the singer said how about we try above my office come and have a look and see if you think it's OK to use. I was round there yesterday, we'd also been discussing buying a pa system between us and I happened to mention to her if I was putting in my share then I'd only want it used for our band rather than trashed by other people so it doesn't work when we have gigs and she said she thought the bass player would want to use it in another band and that he and the guitarist had approached her about starting another band and did she want to join them.

I guess I'm pissed off that it seems I can't play an a quality band unless I want to do wweekends which has a serious impact on my home life and I've done eveything I felt I could to be totally upfront and honest with people!
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:13 PM
Witterings Witterings is offline
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Just thinking this through and following the principle of it's OK through a a bit more, if his Mrs likes it up the back door and I happen to as well but it's not his thing or if she likes it in the morning and he prefers evenings or if she likes it 8 times a week and he only likes it twice, is it OK for me to go and satisfy her needs because strangely it kind feels like I'm the one that's getting it up the rear.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:38 PM
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Well, it sucks the way you found out about the new band [they could have dealt with that better], and it's unfortunate that your schedule doesn't allow you to play on weekends. You just need to find the right guys. They exist. Sorry this happened to you.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

Just ask about it? If they are only playing on weekends and working on originals, I personally don't see a problem. It has been said they may just want to gig more. That's also a possibility. Don't get me wrong, I see where you are coming from on this. Just ask, try to get to the fact of the matter before anything drastic gets done.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

The practice of being deceptive is surely one you don't want to let happen in any playing situation. If that's happening then you just have to distance yourself from those that engage in those behaviours.

However, the 'playing midweek only' concept is a separate issue as I see it.
I think it may just be tough to do what you are trying to do because of the design (midweek only gigs). I may have a different perspective because of living in Los Angeles but the way a midweek gig works here is they are usually NOT done by the average weekend warrior unless it's a solo or maybe duo act. Pros will play a jazz gig during the week for what is relatively low money - for them.

Ex.
Virgil Donati or Danny Carey play a local (but internationally known) club called the Baked Potato on some night from Monday thru Thursday. The band will be other top drawer, sometimes marquee players, who draw in customers just because of their playing ability. About a week and a half ago I saw Greg Bissonette playing at another club with, again GREAT players (Oz Noy was one) doing highly technical fusion music. There was no cover at this club.

Two things I can guarantee. First, Greg wasn't making even close to the same money as he does with Ringo Starr's band or doing a clinic. Second this kind of band isn't playing a Dire Straits or Rolling Stones or any other classic rock style song to get people to buy drinks. The players are free lance, playing for fun, honing their craft, and 'advertising' for more stellar paying gigs. They would not be there if they got called for a last minute tour or session.

There are however, 100's of players on any given weekend, some seasoned pros, some weekend warriors, some absolutely awful players who happen to get a gig, playing the usual type of gigs that players play on the weekend across the western world. That's just the way it is.

There are scads of posts on this and other forums about how hard it is to keep a band together and especially to keep it working. This is without the additional condition of midweek gigs only. If you combine the type of player you are targeting and the general model of how gigs work, that is going to be regularly problematic one way or another if you are trying to put together a steady set of players for a band.

My .02

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Old 11-07-2012, 05:53 PM
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I think it's unreasonable for you to want a band for the weekdays, but they are not allowed to play on the weekends with someone else. They are not on salary to you. Also, don't even consider sharing a PA with anyone. The best you can hope for is that your selected players will do your gigs. What they do on their own time...you have no control over, which includes playing with members of your band on the weekends. Your band is off on the weekends. If you turn it around and see it from their POV....You sound like you are looking for exclusivity from them, that's the part that's unreasonable. You don't want to play weekends, they do, and that's that. People can play with whomever they want, unless they are under contract, which is rediculous in this situation.

There is nothing in your advert that suggests that yours is an exclusive project. You basically got what you asked for. The fact that these same players want to do something on the weekends with another drummer has nothing to do with them doing your gigs. You basically don't have any rights to dictate who and when they can play with. Besides, if you get what you are after, weekday gigs, what's the problem again? Loyalty? There is no such thing as loyalty in music without a ton of money. Sorry man I am on your side in spirit, but I cannot agree with you placing controls on your people after they walk out of rehearsals.

Almost everyone I know plays in different projects with overlapping players, it's just the way it is. If this certain set of people did this, I'm betting another set of players will act similarly. In other words you won't be able to change anything, therefore you are forced to work around the situation. These people aren't doing anything wrong in their minds. Or mine. It's unreasonable to expect players to do only your weekday gigs and nothing else. How would you feel if you wanted to play weekends, but your weekdays only band forbade it? I'd be like yeah right...
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:56 PM
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Just because someone responds to an add you posted doesn't mean you own them in any sense. They have simply found another drummer to play with them on weekends since you refuse. I think you've put yourself in that position, and they should all be free to do what they want with each other. Music is a very incestuous thing.

At this point, you should probably feel lucky that they still want to work with you during your musician hours. You said you're in it for fun, and your band isn't going anywhere just doing weekday gigs, so I'd say just chill out and see where it goes. Try actually having fun.

Maybe in the next add, spell out that you're really looking for people who are in the exact same position as you. Trust me, based on the number of members I've seen lost to the wife on the weekends, you're not alone; but you have to realize that even though you put out the add, and your efforts, you're still the least dedicated musician of the group.

As for the PA setup, I think you're being selfish. Just work out something where everyone can put up some cash, including the other drummer, and then everyone could use it. It's not like you're going to need it on the weekends. Write out and go with the standard that if it breaks, everyone helps pay for it to be fixed. Only way you can dictate who gets to use it is if you buy it.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

It seems like you are mostly feeling a bit betrayed because YOU are the one that got "them" together, and now "they" want to gig on weekends together.

Taking everything else away, is that about right?

You did the initial advert, and got things rolling, but, think of it this way:
Are you the "leader" of the band, making that known, or is it really a fun, "let's play" situation?

Even though you got everyone together initially, it NEVER woks when someone say's "this is "my" band, get your own players" after people know each other and things get rolling.

Especially if you aren't putting together a band and paying people as sidemen for your project, and going out and actually doing it for money.

Married with kids--a lot of people are in this situation. MOST of the people I play with (in 4 bands) are in this category. Myself included.

The "have a social life and don't want to be out gigging every Friday and Saturday night" is what's doing you in for being in a band (to me).

The "have a social life" part would make me not answer the advert in the first place, so why they DID answer (and with what is happening), would make you think "why did you all waste my time?"

It doesn't seem like anything was done intentionally to steal players.
It seems like things started one way, they just liked each other enough to make a go of something more, and since you don't/can't play weekends, you're odd man out.

If you were able to gig on weekends, do you think would there be any issues, or people forming a separate band without you?

The way you "found out" blows though. I am sympathetic to that. Feeling kinda screwed over is a hard thing to deal with, even if it's supposed to be a casual band situation.

If you want to still play with them during the week do so, but if they want to also play with someone else, let THEM buy the PA gear.
If you provided a rehearsal place, that's enough of an investment on your part.

A steady, safe rehearsal place has to be in place, or there is no band.
I would also say that the place is for the band you play in, not another entity.

Good luck with it.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:59 PM
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

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Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
It seems like you are mostly feeling a bit betrayed because YOU are the one that got "them" together, and now "they" want to gig on weekends together.

Taking everything else away, is that about right?

You did the initial advert, and got things rolling, but, think of it this way:
Are you the "leader" of the band, making that known, or is it really a fun, "let's play" situation?

Even though you got everyone together initially, it NEVER woks when someone say's "this is "my" band, get your own players" after people know each other and things get rolling.

Especially if you aren't putting together a band and paying people as sidemen for your project, and going out and actually doing it for money.

Married with kids--a lot of people are in this situation. MOST of the people I play with (in 4 bands) are in this category. Myself included.

The "have a social life and don't want to be out gigging every Friday and Saturday night" is what's doing you in for being in a band (to me).

The "have a social life" part would make me not answer the advert in the first place, so why they DID answer (and with what is happening), would make you think "why did you all waste my time?"

It doesn't seem like anything was done intentionally to steal players.
It seems like things started one way, they just liked each other enough to make a go of something more, and since you don't/can't play weekends, you're odd man out.

If you were able to gig on weekends, do you think would there be any issues, or people forming a separate band without you?

The way you "found out" blows though. I am sympathetic to that. Feeling kinda screwed over is a hard thing to deal with, even if it's supposed to be a casual band situation.

If you want to still play with them during the week do so, but if they want to also play with someone else, let THEM buy the PA gear.
If you provided a rehearsal place, that's enough of an investment on your part.

A steady, safe rehearsal place has to be in place, or there is no band.
I would also say that the place is for the band you play in, not another entity.

Good luck with it.
+1...................unfortunately it is the "nature of the beast" when it comes to bands.........most people/bandmates learn of each other through previous bands and continue to "morph" until they have a group that works well together.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

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Ex.
Virgil Donati or Danny Carey play a local (but internationally known) club called the Baked Potato on some night from Monday thru Thursday. The band will be other top drawer, sometimes marquee players, who draw in customers just because of their playing ability. About a week and a half ago I saw Greg Bissonette playing at another club with, again GREAT players (Oz Noy was one) doing highly technical fusion music. There was no cover at this club.
Hey, I'm in LA too and go to the Baked Potato regularly, as well as Catalina's. You mentioned another club featuring Gregg Bissonette and Oz Noy with no cover? Which club was that?

BTW, as far as the OP's situation, I'm pretty much in agreement with the general direction of the responses. Even though you put the band together, you don't "own" them, and frankly seem to be a bit possessive of them.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

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Hey, I'm in LA too and go to the Baked Potato regularly, as well as Catalina's. You mentioned another club featuring Gregg Bissonette and Oz Noy with no cover? Which club was that?

BTW, as far as the OP's situation, I'm pretty much in agreement with the general direction of the responses. Even though you put the band together, you don't "own" them, and frankly seem to be a bit possessive of them.
Cafe Cordiale in Sherman Oaks. For those who have been following live music in L.A. since the '80's, I think of it as the new 'Flying Jib' ....although not an exact analogy. I've seen Curt Bisquera, Bernie Dresel , Greg Bissonette as well as other talented players there. Just bought a beer or two.

If you go to their website you can usually see the line up of players who will be playing there. I don't think they ever charge a cover. However if you want to see a lineup that's popular, plan on getting their early or getting dinner reservations. There's a very limited bar area and when it's SRO, it may be hard to see. Great venue and great value though.

You won't see that level of player there nightly but if you keep tabs a great lineup pops up.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

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Cafe Cordiale in Sherman Oaks. For those who have been following live music in L.A. since the '80's, I think of it as the new 'Flying Jib' ....although not an exact analogy. I've seen Curt Bisquera, Bernie Dresel , Greg Bissonette as well as other talented players there. Just bought a beer or two.

If you go to their website you can usually see the line up of players who will be playing there. I don't think they ever charge a cover. However if you want to see a lineup that's popular, plan on getting their early or getting dinner reservations. There's a very limited bar area and when it's SRO, it may be hard to see. Great venue and great value though.

You won't see that level of player there nightly but if you keep tabs a great lineup pops up.
Great, thanks for the heads up. I just bookmarked their site, so I'll definitely be on the lookout for some killer players popping up there in the near future.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:57 PM
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I guess I'm pissed off that it seems I can't play an a quality band unless I want to do wweekends which has a serious impact on my home life and I've done eveything I felt I could to be totally upfront and honest with people!
I'll be honest Witt. From where I'm sitting it just sounds like you are pissed off because you're not getting your own way. At this stage, YOU ARE playing in a quality band that plays weeknights and doesn't impact your home life. No one has taken that away from you. You're ten steps ahead of yourself and jumping at shadows of what "might" happen....not what "has" happened.

I'm not trying to be am antagonistic prick here mate, honestly. I just see this issue from the polar opposite and I think you should try to too. This scenario is not uncommon.....it's run-of-the-mill, everyday, routine kinda stuff. For mine, your current approach towards these guys is unreasonable and runs the risk of driving them away for good. The very situation you're afraid will happen, no?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
Just thinking this through and following the principle of it's OK through a a bit more, if his Mrs likes it up the back door and I happen to as well but it's not his thing or if she likes it in the morning and he prefers evenings or if she likes it 8 times a week and he only likes it twice, is it OK for me to go and satisfy her needs because strangely it kind feels like I'm the one that's getting it up the rear.
Long bow. This really isn't the same thing at all. Unless otherwise agreed upon, there is usually an understanding that a relationship entails that exclusivity we were talking about earlier. In this case the band is less like your missus and more like your "booty call". Contract them and start paying them to exclusively work for you alone and I'll happily accept the parallel between the two. But as it stands here, this analogy doesn't work at all.


Anyways, I've had enough to say here as it is. I just think you should look at this from the flip side is all. I think if you look at it calmly and reasonably, you'll find it's all a little overly dramatic.

Last edited by Pocket-full-of-gold; 11-07-2012 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:34 PM
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

Ideally a band moves and acts as a unit. "Do we do this gig, or not...etc.
Its deceptive what they did without being up front so that is a mark against them. BAd form.

BUT, they have every right to break off and play whenever/whatever and if you are not willing to go along. They have option to seek somebody else for their desires. They don't own you and your time, nor you them and their time.

Personally, I would take solace that they are willing to remain with you for the 'weekdays' because that is a restriction on them as much as it is a desire of yours. The ideal for you is to find some people who also only want to do weekdays of course.

Lastly, never trust the bass player.
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

I did say be frank with your replies and I'd appreciate any - I guess the response generally isn't what I expected BUT I have taken it board.
I guess what I didn't expect was for me to bring a group of people together that without me wouldn't of know each other and for them to all then go behind my back!
I must admit whilst maybe I've been a bit naive I'm absolutely gobsmacked at how little loyalty there seems to be and wonder if a good description of a band could be "A small group of say 4 to 5 people constantly looking around to see if there's anything better on offer. Possibly also why it's so hard to keep a band together for any length of time.

Maybe because I'm doing it as a hobby and not for a living but a band to me is as much if not more about getting together with some friends you get on with and from friends I guess you kind of expect some kind of loyalty and if not they're probably not going to be friends - but hey there you go.

I've attached a rough recording straight from a mixer into Audacity of the band I most enjoyed playing in, it's about 6 years old. The band initially was just 3 dad's who hadn't played for 20 years from our children's junior school who got into a conversation, started a band for fun and then went on to do charity do's / raise money for the school at dinner dances etc. Unfortunately it broke up about 5 years ago because of family commitments / work, none of it on my side but just circumstances beyond control but we're all still friends - hope you enjoy !

Once again thanks to everyone for their input, has opened my eyes and I do appreciate!
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