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  #1  
Old 05-20-2012, 02:43 PM
Brodown Brodown is offline
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Default Best way to improve double bass skill

I've been trying to learn double bass for quite a while now, and was wondering the best way to learn complex double bass patterns like in The Punisher by Veil of Maya, currently I can do 16th note rolls whilst playing eighth and quarter notes on the hi hat, and some simple double bass patterns but can you guys really recommened any excersises to improve speed and coordination to play complex patterns, or just getting better at double bass in general
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:11 PM
aviator42009 aviator42009 is offline
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Default Re: Best way to improve double bass skill

When I got my first double bass pedal I really wasn't sitting there doing exercises until I reached my goal speed. I kind of just used it when I needed it in songs and toyed with incorporating it when I just play. Its been eight months since I've gotten the pedal and I'm pretty damn good at it now.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:55 PM
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Messerschmitt Messerschmitt is offline
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Default Re: Best way to improve double bass skill

Best advice i can give: work your weaker foot.
That is, start playing regular "one pedal" beats with your weaker foot (wich i assume is the left one, if you are a righty). That way you`ll be able to pull faster rolls.
Also, start playing hand rudiments with your feet, i`d recommend paradiddles and paradiddle-diddles.
Try to alternate between single strokes and double strokes when you can.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:57 PM
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Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
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Default Re: Best way to improve double bass skill

I just did what I did for my hands. Basic rhythm skale an all types of single stroke doubles. First through the whole bar, then rest on the back beat and then just combine them how ever you want.

For licks you can start with 16th notes, a certain number of singles with the hands followed by a number og singles with the feet.

The traditional RH-LF-LH-RF pattern is also good.
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Old 05-20-2012, 04:51 PM
plangentmusic
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Default Re: Best way to improve double bass skill

SInce double bass drums are the same sound it makes sense to get the beats out as fast as possible and there's nothing faster than alternating RLRLRL. I'd play all patterns in that way , constantly getting faster and harder. Yes-- playing hard will build strength, power and velocity.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:19 PM
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Arky Arky is offline
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Default Re: Best way to improve double bass skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by plangentmusic View Post
SInce double bass drums are the same sound it makes sense to get the beats out as fast as possible (...)
I agree on just going for it at the beginning - that should be the fastest way to progress. Your ears will tell me if you're off in terms of sync/dynamics. This can be "fixed later" - it will gradually improve if you're sticking to it. Also, some serious progress in terms of bpm will provide good confidence to build on. There's always room for improvement, just go for it for now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by plangentmusic View Post
(...)and there's nothing faster than alternating RLRLRL. I'd play all patterns in that way , constantly getting faster and harder. Yes-- playing hard will build strength, power and velocity.
Really? Doubles are faster - for those who can learn doubles (we're all different - some seem to struggle with doubles or to not being able to learn them properly).
-> Learn several foot techniques! It's worth it. Some are good for power, some combine speed & efficiency. See DVD recommendations below...

(The singles vs. doubles speed ration can vary greatly from one drummer to the other. If you take world class speed it's in the 360+ bpm range for doubles (a good minute) and about 280 bpm range for singles (to my knowledge, only a handful of people can play singles @ 280 bpm, and just for a few seconds). My ratio is 240/singles vs. around 290/doubles (max speed respectively). I know one guy who can do singles @ 260 but sucks at playing doubles. You'll find any combination.)

Adding to the comments above:
Focus on your left/weak foot - GREAT advice. But maybe you should keep this in mind and not think about it too much for now but as you're progressing overall you should focus on your weaker limb(s) as this will help you getting a better balance. George Kollias is right in that you should have a dominant side and the other foot will follow. I just learned for myself that the left foot needs so much more attention to catch up. Focusing on your weaker foot can be done by e.g. using your left foot in isolation or using your left foot for parts you'd usually play with your right/leading foot. Learn to apply patterns w/ your left foot leading.

As for DVDs (and "double bass" as a topic comes up quite often on DRUMMERWORLD)... Take a look at those:

* Thomas Lang - Creative Coordination & Advanced Foot Technique (hardcore coordination stuff)
* Tim Waterson - Techniques, Motions and Applications for Bass Drum Playing (shocking speed, a plethora of techniques/variations demonstrated - more than on any other DVD on foot technique I'm aware of)
* Matt Ritter - Bass Drum Techniques for Today's Drummer / Unburying The Beater (to round it up in terms of posture, drum setup, fine-tuning your technique)

Those DVDs are great but you can find a lot of great stuff on YouTube.
Just search for "Derek Roddy lessons" - watch lesson 2 and 3. That's a great workout for hands & feet (in isolation but also combined). Gives you a good understanding of how to develop stamina/sync. Because stamina/endurance is a must if you want to get good at doublebass. I've seen some guys on a doublebass contest yesterday who started doing fast strokes but ran out of power quite quickly... ridiculous! This is nothing you can use in actual music - at least if it's demanding some serious doublebass stuff. Whatever you're practicing - go for periods of 30 seconds, 1 or several minutes or even longer.

Last edited by Arky; 05-20-2012 at 06:30 PM.
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  #7  
Old 05-20-2012, 06:51 PM
plangentmusic
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Default Re: Best way to improve double bass skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arky View Post
I agree on just going for it at the beginning - that should be the fastest way to progress. Your ears will tell me if you're off in terms of sync/dynamics. This can be "fixed later" - it will gradually improve if you're sticking to it. Also, some serious progress in terms of bpm will provide good confidence to build on. There's always room for improvement, just go for it for now.
Really? Doubles are faster - for those who can learn doubles (we're all different - some seem to struggle with doubles or to not being able to learn them properly).
-> Learn several foot techniques! It's worth it. Some are good for power, some combine speed & efficiency. See DVD recommendations below...

(The singles vs. doubles speed ration can vary greatly from one drummer to the other. If you take world class speed it's in the 360+ bpm range for doubles (a good minute) and about 280 bpm range for singles (to my knowledge, only a handful of people can play singles @ 280 bpm, and just for a few seconds). My ratio is 240/singles vs. around 290/doubles (max speed respectively). I know one guy who can do singles @ 260 but sucks at playing doubles. You'll find any combination.)

Adding to the comments above:
Focus on your left/weak foot - GREAT advice. But maybe you should keep this in mind and not think about it too much for now but as you're progressing overall you should focus on your weaker limb(s) as this will help you getting a better balance. George Kollias is right in that you should have a dominant side and the other foot will follow. I just learned for myself that the left foot needs so much more attention to catch up. Focusing on your weaker foot can be done by e.g. using your left foot in isolation or using your left foot for parts you'd usually play with your right/leading foot. Learn to apply patterns w/ your left foot leading.

As for DVDs (and "double bass" as a topic comes up quite often on DRUMMERWORLD)... Take a look at those:

* Thomas Lang - Creative Coordination & Advanced Foot Technique (hardcore coordination stuff)
* Tim Waterson - Techniques, Motions and Applications for Bass Drum Playing (shocking speed, a plethora of techniques/variations demonstrated - more than on any other DVD on foot technique I'm aware of)
* Matt Ritter - Bass Drum Techniques for Today's Drummer / Unburying The Beater (to round it up in terms of posture, drum setup, fine-tuning your technique)

Those DVDs are great but you can find a lot of great stuff on YouTube.
Just search for "Derek Roddy lessons" - watch lesson 2 and 3. That's a great workout for hands & feet (in isolation but also combined). Gives you a good understanding of how to develop stamina/sync. Because stamina/endurance is a must if you want to get good at doublebass. I've seen some guys on a doublebass contest yesterday who started doing fast strokes but ran out of power quite quickly... ridiculous! This is nothing you can use in actual music - at least if it's demanding some serious doublebass stuff. Whatever you're practicing - go for periods of 30 seconds, 1 or several minutes or even longer.

You're saying that you can play 16th's RRLLRRLLRRLL faster and more powerfully than playing them RLRLRLRL? I can't imagine, but, whatever works!
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  #8  
Old 05-20-2012, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: Best way to improve double bass skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by plangentmusic View Post
You're saying that you can play 16th's RRLLRRLLRRLL faster and more powerfully than playing them RLRLRLRL? I can't imagine, but, whatever works!
-> Heel-toe (considered doubles technique). I'm not playing 2 identical RR / LL singles - it's one streamlined motion, you're getting 2 notes for 1 stroke. Efficient & fast. But takes some time until you get into it.

Here's a short heel-toe demonstration by Tim Waterson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzXH4...eature=related

Or another dude demonstrating the 2-foot version - combined into a double stroke roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyGhQAcZZYw

200 bpm with doubles is... nothing (once you can do it).

Heel-toe is another topic which is discussed often, there's a separate thread on heel-toe on this forum:
THE HEEL TOE THREAD
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=6143
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  #9  
Old 05-20-2012, 07:28 PM
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joeysnare joeysnare is offline
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Default Re: Best way to improve double bass skill

im not sure if anyone said it already, if they have forgive me. But for complex patterns a simple but very important thing to learn that a lot of people seem to neglect is learning to start patterns with their weak foot. to keep my legs in tip top shape i practice singles, doubles,flams,triplets, paradiddles, and hertas with either foot leading.
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Old 05-21-2012, 02:43 PM
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Messerschmitt Messerschmitt is offline
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Default Re: Best way to improve double bass skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arky View Post
Adding to the comments above:
Focus on your left/weak foot - GREAT advice. But maybe you should keep this in mind and not think about it too much for now but as you're progressing overall you should focus on your weaker limb(s) as this will help you getting a better balance. George Kollias is right in that you should have a dominant side and the other foot will follow. I just learned for myself that the left foot needs so much more attention to catch up. Focusing on your weaker foot can be done by e.g. using your left foot in isolation or using your left foot for parts you'd usually play with your right/leading foot. Learn to apply patterns w/ your left foot leading.
Totally agree, Arky, but just feel i have to clarify my point.
If you can do single 8th note strokes with your right hand at 120 BPM and with your left hand at only 80 BPM, your fastest single stroke 16th note roll would only go up to 80 BPM. You can`t play faster than you can with your weaker limb. Not sure if you get what i mean but what i`m trying to say is that focusing on your weaker limb(s) is important if you want to get better/faster.
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  #11  
Old 05-21-2012, 03:29 PM
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Default Re: Best way to improve double bass skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Messerschmitt View Post
Totally agree, Arky, but just feel i have to clarify my point.
If you can do single 8th note strokes with your right hand at 120 BPM and with your left hand at only 80 BPM, your fastest single stroke 16th note roll would only go up to 80 BPM. You can`t play faster than you can with your weaker limb. Not sure if you get what i mean but what i`m trying to say is that focusing on your weaker limb(s) is important if you want to get better/faster.
I think I totally get it ;-) (Because that has been my approach so far, with good results.) Max speed = weak limb speed x 2. It can't be any other way. My point was that although focusing on one's weaker limbs is great, it can be overwhelming or too much of a challenge for some people when they start with something new, e.g. double bass, and start focusing on their weaker side too early. But as we've mentioned this the OP will keep this in mind and apply this idea as soon as he deems fit.
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