Noticing a few trends here

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iwearnohats

Silver Member
There seems to be a distinct pattern towards people posting topics about the importance of cymbal/drum/head choice, and whether or not drummers are important/will be taken over by drum machines/what the audience thinks.

Guys, honestly, you're missing the point.

Why do you play drums? Do you play because you want to impress people, or are you playing because you want to play drums?

If the answer is the first, well, then do whatever it is that you have to do to impress people.

If the answer is the second, then there's a few things that I don't understand:

Why are you so worried about what other drummers and the audience think about your selection of gear? Their opinions don't matter. What matters is that you are doing what YOU like, and what YOU feel suits the music you are playing. If you are basing your choice of gear on whether or not you think the audience will prefer the Zildjians to the Paistes, then you're missing the point. Play what YOU like.

My cymbal selection is a mix of Meinl, UFIP and Paiste. I did a music video where I have a Stagg Myra ride cymbal sticking out like a sore thumb. Did I care that it was a Stagg when I bought it? Not in the least, it was a great sounding cymbal and THAT is why I used it.

When you get into the mindset of a non-musician, you have to consider the context. First off, what sort of music do they like? If the answer is pop, rock, "everything" (hahahahaha I hear that one a lot), then chances are they don't notice nor care about what the drummer is doing. If the answer is something a bit more sophisticated, say, a few prog bands, then they might have an ear for drumming. Hell, if they listen to metal they might be one of those guys who thinks Joey Jordison is a god. But generally, no, they don't notice you, and they don't care. They're only interested in listening to the music that they are comfortable with. Listening to music has been proven to be associated with dopamine release ( http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/your-musical-self/201101/why-music-listening-makes-us-feel-good ) and that is why pop music is so popular - because it is easily accessible to non-musicians and people who don't know any better, and it gives them that dopamine release. Of course, very few people are consciously aware that this is why they listen to pop music :).

Anyway, I will go on forever and you'd be able to ignore most of it. The point I'm trying to make is that you need to be more selfish! Seriously, buy the gear that YOU want to play and listen to. Forget about the audience. Forget about other drummers. There are a zillion brands and models out there for you to choose from, because we are all different. Maple, birch, poplar, Gretsch, DW, Tama ... whatever. Play what you want. Once you realise that the audience doesn't care AND that this is unimportant, you will be free :)
 
I think similarly but this forum is all about nitpicking and fussing over the tiny details. We wouldn't have much to discuss if we didn't sweat the small stuff.
 
I think you're over thinking it.

Much of the topics are just conversation, not anyone trying to make a point about life and death. I mean, it's a forum after all What else are we going to talk about? It's difficult to have much of a conversation about finger technique or such in plain text.

I do agree just play what you like. And I agree, the audience doesn't care.

People do tend to over think gear. But talking about gear IS fun. I can talk about gear all day long, because I enjoy the conversation. It has nothing to do with what anyone else thinks.

It's also a bit intimidating now.

In the 1970's, you had maybe 4 or so major brands of drums and 2 cymbal companies to choose from.

In the 80's, we had approximately 7-8 major brands of drums and 3 cymbal companies.

Now, the list is long, and seems to grow longer every year.
 
I could talk about my gear all day long as well :).

In fact, I sometimes tell people mid-sentence "By the way, if you get me started talking about drums I probably won't shut up, sorry."

I just have a general perception that people worry far too much about what others think about their choices. Obviously in some cases this may be important (Would you go to a job interview for a position as an economic adviser with facial tattoos and a Cannibal Corpse t-shirt?) but when it comes down to things based on opinion, it's not really that important at all :).
 
The discussion of gear is, in large part, to seek information and opinions from those who have experience with it. The same premise applies to performance, technique, and many topics specific to drumming and the music business, which can be answered by one or more members.

The beauty of a forum like this is the instant access to other drummers, at just about every stage of drumming skill and professionalism, on a worldwide basis. Or, like the old saying goes, everybody knows more than somebody.

I learn a lot here from drummers who are exploring different gear, different techniques, and more music and drummers than I could possibly explore on my own.

So when a question is asked, it's usually just a question from someone who legitimately wants information, and isn't really concerned about what the audience or anyone else thinks.

iwearnohats said:
I just have a general perception that people worry far too much about what others think about their choices.
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I've seen very little of that here, certainly not enough to be a concern.

Bermuda
 
iwearnohats said:
There seems to be a distinct pattern towards people posting topics about the importance of cymbal/drum/head choice, and whether or not drummers are important/will be taken over by drum machines/what the audience thinks.

Guys, honestly, you're missing the point.

Why do you play drums? Do you play because you want to impress people, or are you playing because you want to play drums?

If the answer is the first, well, then do whatever it is that you have to do to impress people.

If the answer is the second, then there's a few things that I don't understand:

Why are you so worried about what other drummers and the audience think about your selection of gear? Their opinions don't matter. What matters is that you are doing what YOU like, and what YOU feel suits the music you are playing. If you are basing your choice of gear on whether or not you think the audience will prefer the Zildjians to the Paistes, then you're missing the point. Play what YOU like.

My cymbal selection is a mix of Meinl, UFIP and Paiste. I did a music video where I have a Stagg Myra ride cymbal sticking out like a sore thumb. Did I care that it was a Stagg when I bought it? Not in the least, it was a great sounding cymbal and THAT is why I used it.

When you get into the mindset of a non-musician, you have to consider the context. First off, what sort of music do they like? If the answer is pop, rock, "everything" (hahahahaha I hear that one a lot), then chances are they don't notice nor care about what the drummer is doing. If the answer is something a bit more sophisticated, say, a few prog bands, then they might have an ear for drumming. Hell, if they listen to metal they might be one of those guys who thinks Joey Jordison is a god. But generally, no, they don't notice you, and they don't care. They're only interested in listening to the music that they are comfortable with. Listening to music has been proven to be associated with dopamine release ( http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/your-musical-self/201101/why-music-listening-makes-us-feel-good ) and that is why pop music is so popular - because it is easily accessible to non-musicians and people who don't know any better, and it gives them that dopamine release. Of course, very few people are consciously aware that this is why they listen to pop music :).

Anyway, I will go on forever and you'd be able to ignore most of it. The point I'm trying to make is that you need to be more selfish! Seriously, buy the gear that YOU want to play and listen to. Forget about the audience. Forget about other drummers. There are a zillion brands and models out there for you to choose from, because we are all different. Maple, birch, poplar, Gretsch, DW, Tama ... whatever. Play what you want. Once you realise that the audience doesn't care AND that this is unimportant, you will be free :)
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I completely agree with you. If a band I was in (hypothetical) had a 2 night booking at a venue with lets say 600-1000 people max, the truth is the 1st night I could set up my Vistalites and 2002's, the next night I set up my 1993 Exports with the eclectic set of cymbals (PST5 Crash-Ride/Sabian Pros discontinued/802 Hats discontinued/Old Alpa Power Ride discontinued/ New Alpha Crash) and nobody would notice the difference, except some possible drummers who recognized the Ludwigs as "Bonhams set".

Only we and by we I mean drummers who have been around awhile could tell the difference. That's cool with me and the reason I only play Exports live. But I sign on here almost everynight to see what is going on, does somebody have a question about Cymbals (in particular Paiste which I know much better) or about tuning, or maybe about single as opossed to double pedal for a beginner. Yeah, nobody probably cares but us, but this is why we have this forum, so "Us" can gather/talk/ or even bitch. If it was not fun and informative, I would not do it.
 
coolhand1969 said:
I completely agree with you. If a band I was in (hypothetical) had a 2 night booking at a venue with lets say 600-1000 people max, the truth is the 1st night I could set up my Vistalites and 2002's, the next night I set up my 1993 Exports with the eclectic set of cymbals (PST5 Crash-Ride/Sabian Pros discontinued/802 Hats discontinued/Old Alpa Power Ride discontinued/ New Alpha Crash) and nobody would notice the difference, except some possible drummers who recognized the Ludwigs as "Bonhams set".

Only we and by we I mean drummers who have been around awhile could tell the difference. That's cool with me and the reason I only play Exports live. But I sign on here almost everynight to see what is going on, does somebody have a question about Cymbals (in particular Paiste which I know much better) or about tuning, or maybe about single as opossed to double pedal for a beginner. Yeah, nobody probably cares but us, but this is why we have this forum, so "Us" can gather/talk/ or even bitch. If it was not fun and informative, I would not do it.
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So very true!! Or like my singer once said "that drumset is pretty..."
 
coolhand1969 said:
I completely agree with you. If a band I was in (hypothetical) had a 2 night booking at a venue with lets say 600-1000 people max, the truth is the 1st night I could set up my Vistalites and 2002's, the next night I set up my 1993 Exports with the eclectic set of cymbals (PST5 Crash-Ride/Sabian Pros discontinued/802 Hats discontinued/Old Alpa Power Ride discontinued/ New Alpha Crash) and nobody would notice the difference, except some possible drummers who recognized the Ludwigs as "Bonhams set".
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On summer I was playing this same little club 3 nights a week. I used to show up with all sorts of different gear. One night I might have my 80's Pearl Export, another night my top-of-the-line Premier Signia, and a few times, some unknown drums we had laying around in the shop I was working at at the time. No one ever seemed to notice the difference. I did, but no one else.

coolhand1969 said:
Yeah, nobody probably cares but us, but this is why we have this forum, so "Us" can gather/talk/ or even bitch. If it was not fun and informative, I would not do it.
Click to expand...

bingo!
 
DrumEatDrum said:
On summer I was playing this same little club 3 nights a week. I used to show up with all sorts of different gear. One night I might have my 80's Pearl Export, another night my top-of-the-line Premier Signia, and a few times, some unknown drums we had laying around in the shop I was working at at the time. No one ever seemed to notice the difference. I did, but no one else.



bingo!
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If possible could you post a couple of pics of your 80's Exports. I thought my kit was old at 20 years and still as rock solid as ever, but you beat me. Thanks and good to know someone else out there still gigs with Exports. I still say when armageddon comes, 2 things will survive: Cockroaches and Export Drums.
 
coolhand1969 said:
If possible could you post a couple of pics of your 80's Exports. I thought my kit was old at 20 years and still as rock solid as ever, but you beat me. Thanks and good to know someone else out there still gigs with Exports. I still say when armageddon comes, 2 things will survive: Cockroaches and Export Drums.
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Sorry, I sold them off long ago. The summer in that story was not a recent one.

But yes, Pearl Exports were built to last.
 
I pretty much agree with both Dre and Iwearnohats. I found the study referenced by hats also interesting....they could only get 8 fricken people from 217!?!??! LOL

I believe part of the problem is the way society molds us (whether we want to be or not) to the point where we are always searching for approval from others. I said in another post, everyone likes to be liked, so we form opinions about gear, music, talent, etc and we all would like to, or like to appear to belong to the most popular social groups (eg;"I only play vintage Ludwig snares or DW kits..." I also pick up on some "musical snobbery" sometimes and it cracks me up. I mean, put good heads and a tune job on some entry level kit and a good player will still sound good or at least decent on them. Also I believe marketing plays a HUGE role in this area also, sometimes deciding what is "good" for us, or what is "best" because we let them do it.

When I first started on this site and drumming in 2005, the best advice for my first kit I got was "go to the drum store(s) and play kits. Don't worry if anyone is watching, play the different kits you are interested in for whatever reason (cost, prestige, etc.) and compare them.....the buy the one YOU like, period. I did that and to tell you the truth, I'm still happy with my Sonor 3005's.

I think it is fun to swap ideas, form opinions, compare notes, debate, learn from others and make new friends. This is the reason I came back here to participate again. I have learned so much here it really is a fantastic site. Anywhere you go you'll find people making arguments for this or that, disagreeing about minor stuff but hey that's what makes the world go round! If we all agreed on everything life and drumming would be really boring.

Besides.....everyone knows Zildjian cymbals RULE!!!! :)
 
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Funny, I have never gotten the impression people posting here are concerned about what others think of their gear. Possibly, the exact opposite. Mostly, the inexperienced don't want to purchase something they will not like, and ask a lot of questions. Good for them.

This site has more members and info than any other site. It's quite a mix of human thought and endeavor. Every day I learn something new about something concerning drums and drumming. I often wonder why anyone would complain about anything here, all things considered.
 
The only time I've ever personally had someone comment on my gear sounding great was the recording engineer at the last studio my band recorded at. It was really nice to hear, but he only really paid attention because it's his job!

The only time I've been aware of the public even remotely caring about a drum sound was when Metallica released St Anger. That snare definitely caught people's ears, and not in the good way...
 
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Well, I could name a few names of repeat offenders, but I won't do that because that's just bad form :).

I generally get good comments from sound guys because my kit is actually tuned correctly. Especially the kick. I once had a sound guy who had the bass on the EQ cranked for the band before me because the guy must have had an entire bed suite in his kick. I did one hit and he's turned it straight back down to under a 1/4, and it was STILL punchier and deeper than the other guy :D. While I don't seek the approval of others, it does make me feel good when I make a sound guy's job just a little bit easier :)
 
iwearnohats said:
Well, I could name a few names of repeat offenders, but I won't do that because that's just bad form :).

I generally get good comments from sound guys because my kit is actually tuned correctly. Especially the kick. I once had a sound guy who had the bass on the EQ cranked for the band before me because the guy must have had an entire bed suite in his kick. I did one hit and he's turned it straight back down to under a 1/4, and it was STILL punchier and deeper than the other guy :D. While I don't seek the approval of others, it does make me feel good when I make a sound guy's job just a little bit easier :)
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Agreed. It makes those hours we spend fine tuning our gear worthwhile! Certainly it gives me the energy to continue putting the effort in :)
 
As a gigging drummer in an original rock band, I watch a lot of local bands in some pretty small clubs. I will tell you that without a doubt the audience judges every band before they ever take the stage. When a band sets up full Marshall stacks, full bass rigs, a huge double bass kit with a rack and tons of cymbals the audience gets excited. When the band comes on stage and looks the part, people get more excited. This is a phenomenon I have seen hundreds of times. They don’t necessarily care what the gear is, but they know what a rock band is supposed to look like. A well-financed band usually has the audience before they ever play; they just need to live up to the expectations. Bands that get on stage with beat up gear have an uphill battle to win the audience.

I am sure I will get plenty of disagreements, but this is my experience from 20 years of gigging watching more terrible local bands than I care to count.
 
I tend to agree, except if I saw a stack in a small club, I would probably be looking for the nearest exit.

However, if I am at a salsa band, I see they have the whole bateria, congas, bongos, timbales, and some horns sitting there on stands, I totally get excited.
 
eclipseownzu said:
As a gigging drummer in an original rock band, I watch a lot of local bands in some pretty small clubs. I will tell you that without a doubt the audience judges every band before they ever take the stage. When a band sets up full Marshall stacks, full bass rigs, a huge double bass kit with a rack and tons of cymbals the audience gets excited. When the band comes on stage and looks the part, people get more excited. This is a phenomenon I have seen hundreds of times. They don’t necessarily care what the gear is, but they know what a rock band is supposed to look like. A well-financed band usually has the audience before they ever play; they just need to live up to the expectations. Bands that get on stage with beat up gear have an uphill battle to win the audience.

I am sure I will get plenty of disagreements, but this is my experience from 20 years of gigging watching more terrible local bands than I care to count.
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interesting observation. and it works both ways. some people may think " this is going to be too much for me". either way its so true, you look at the gear on an empty stage and pass judgment one way or the other. I never gave it any thought but I do the same thing!
 
eclipseownzu said:
As a gigging drummer in an original rock band, I watch a lot of local bands in some pretty small clubs. I will tell you that without a doubt the audience judges every band before they ever take the stage. When a band sets up full Marshall stacks, full bass rigs, a huge double bass kit with a rack and tons of cymbals the audience gets excited. When the band comes on stage and looks the part, people get more excited. This is a phenomenon I have seen hundreds of times. They don’t necessarily care what the gear is, but they know what a rock band is supposed to look like. A well-financed band usually has the audience before they ever play; they just need to live up to the expectations. Bands that get on stage with beat up gear have an uphill battle to win the audience.

I am sure I will get plenty of disagreements, but this is my experience from 20 years of gigging watching more terrible local bands than I care to count.
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That's a pretty unique observation that now I think about it I kind of agree.

I saw an incredible street brass band recently called Brassroots (get it..........?) and prior to playing a note I knew they'd be pretty amazing based purely on the sheer amount of gear they wear busily unpacking. Sure enough, they were awesome!
 
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