When learning songs, do you actually memorize the number of bars in each part, or do you go by feel?

ba dum tish

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I just joined a cover band (my first band) so I'm trying to learn a bunch of new songs. So far, my strategy has just been to listen to the songs over and over again until I just know all the lengths of each part intuitively and can just feel when the next part is coming. But I wonder if when playing live and the nerves set in if it might be more advantageous to actually have the count of each part (how many bars per verse 1, chorus, bridge, etc) memorized.

How say you? What is your strategy? Does anyone here actually count out the number of bars as they're playing so they know when the next part is coming?
 
I just joined a cover band (my first band) so I'm trying to learn a bunch of new songs. So far, my strategy has just been to listen to the songs over and over again until I just know all the lengths of each part intuitively and can just feel when the next part is coming. But I wonder if when playing live and the nerves set in if it might be more advantageous to actually have the count of each part (how many bars per verse 1, chorus, bridge, etc) memorized.

How say you? What is your strategy? Does anyone here actually count out the number of bars as they're playing so they know when the next part is coming?

Yes... no... all of the above. I tend to learn all of a song, not just drum parts and counts. By that I mean I know the melodies, rhythms, lyrics, and major parts of the song well enough to just know how long each goes and what follows what. I know the lyrical or melodic cues that lead into the next part, and as a band you should all be following the same dynamics which usually happen at the transitions between verses, bridges, choruses, etc.

Part of it is developing your ears. If your listening is developed sufficiently you can play along to a song first time through (as long as it follows normal songwriting tropes) and pretty much feel where each change will fall naturally, and do something appropriate for each part.

If the song involves odd times, phrasings, or little tricky parts such as the band starting and stopping and then doing cued hits in unison, then yes, I get obsessive and nitpicky about counting right down to the 16th rest.

And as you develop ears and feel and just experience, you know what four or eight or twelve or sixteen bars feels likes, sounds like, and how long it takes.
 
I play by ear at first, but if I'm not hearing familiar patterns in a passage then I count until I can feel it. Counting is my fallback safety net.
 
Given it's your first band, I'd say count all the bars.

Then, as Alparrot said, once you get more experience, you'll learn when you need to count and when you can just feel you're way through it.

Does anyone here actually count out the number of bars as they're playing so they know when the next part is coming?
I've been in several bands where there were backing tracks, and I'm playing to a click. In those cases, it's important I know exactly what bar I'm in at all times because the band is relying on me to make it all line up with the backing tracks, and play the right cue to go into the next section. So yes, I'll count.

In other situations, probably not.
 
What is your strategy? Does anyone here actually count out the number of bars as they're playing so they know when the next part is coming?

I rarely actually count anything. Most everything I play is simple 4/4 stuff and, after decades, it is second nature. We rely on instrumental or lyrical cues from each other to give us a heads up.
 
I play by ear at first, but if I'm not hearing familiar patterns in a passage then I count until I can feel it. Counting is my fallback safety net.

This seems to be my approach at the moment as well. I'm also just joining my first band. I'm in the middle of trying to learn over 50 cover songs for our first gig in about 6 weeks. I think if I tried to count bars for each one I'd lose my mind. I kind of save that for the songs I'm not very familiar with. Luckily most of the songs we are doing are ones I have listened to for a long time and like so I think I at least have a sense of changes, etc.

On the other hand I do keep a notebook with each song listed in it and helpful notes for each song even if it says no more than whether it's a shuffle beat or money beat or whatever. If there's something tricky, I write it down so I can remember.

Good luck!
 
Fifty songs?? Ouch! Still, by the time you finish with them, you'll have one hell of a good learning strategy!
 
I tend to learn all of a song, not just drum parts and counts. By that I mean I know the melodies, rhythms, lyrics, and major parts of the song well enough to just know how long each goes and what follows what. I know the lyrical or melodic cues that lead into the next part, and as a band you should all be following the same dynamics which usually happen at the transitions between verses, bridges, choruses, etc..

Amen to this. I will also add chord changes. I've been in situations where the monitors were crap, and all I could hear was either the bass line or rhythm guitar/keyboards. Knowing the chord changes helped me stay with everyone else.

There are, of course, times when people are not playing together. In cases like that it was up to me to provide cues for where the band should be in the song. But I could only do that if I memorized all the other elements.
 
Like most others in here, I learn the song and take cues from the guitar parts etc. That said, for specific songs, and usuaklly before I have played them enough to gain muscle memory (or even just comfort) I will count bars. The outro of Boulevard of Broken Dreams, which we started playing quite recently is 4 groups of 6 bars with a staccato ending that needs to be counted to be accurate.
 
I take cues from other instruments, not only from the vocalist.

Usually when learning a song I'll break into parts of the song like Intro, Verse, Chorus etc. I remember the basic patter(groove) for each part to be played for X amount of times before I move to another part of the song.

Hope this helps.
 
I make mental cliff notes like Verse, Chorus, (do that triple fill) Verse, Bridge, Solo (16 bars), Chorus, end after 2, start 6/8 song. Some notes get put on the song list itself, but for the most part it's feel. In fact, our 6/8 song is instrumental so it wouldn't be a bad idea for me to chart it out because I tend to play it different every time.
 
I honestly don't know how anyone can play and count bars. I listen to the chord progression. I listen to the rhythm guitar or the bass or the keys. I do write out the arrangement like this:

I-V-V-B-C-L-V-V-B-C-E.

I = intro
V = verse
B = bridge
C = chorus
L = lead, which usually follows the same chord progressions as the verse and/or bridge and chorus
E = ending, which a lot of times is the same as the intro.

Then there's stops, breakdowns and other parts that you make up names for as needed.

Listening to where am in the chord progressions of the various parts is how I do it. It should be something you don't have to think about, you should instinctively know where you are by your ears, and you should know what's coming up next because you memorized the arrangement that you wrote out.
 
I feel that you should be able to count anything and everything. I can tell the bassist to watch out for the 16 th note anticipation at the end of bar 8 and we both get it.

Saves a lot of time.

I don't rely on cues from anyone. You should be able to play your songs with no accompaniment.

Yes, it's a lot of work but the working pros do it.
 
i only tend to lean my own works anymore...but when i used to play others works I would jot out the structure in standard notation for myself....though the structures of most songs are usually simple enough to allow winging it.
 
I feel that you should be able to count anything and everything. I can tell the bassist to watch out for the 16 th note anticipation at the end of bar 8 and we both get it.

Saves a lot of time.

I don't rely on cues from anyone. You should be able to play your songs with no accompaniment.

Yes, it's a lot of work but the working pros do it.

Just to provide a counterpoint to Jeff.

I agree that you should be able to do it on your own without anybody else. That doesn't mean you don't listen, though! I've found before that the feel of certain parts of the songs can vary depending on the other members of the band and being able to effectively provide for that within a song is vital. So whilst the notes remain the same, the manner in which you play them varies.
 
it depends on the song, if we play a song thats on the simple side, we just learn it by memory and dont use or need any cues from each other. if the song is a bit more arranged and complicated, during rehersals we may talk about how many bars a certain verse goes before modulatng or whatever. then just play to that live ( still using visual cues time to time but not really needing them, i guess its a comfort thing).
 
I think it also depends on the level of yourself and the musicians you're playing with and what you're going for: complete accurate covers 100% of the time?

I played in a classic rock cover band for a couple of years. We all took it pretty serious but it was meant as a fun hobby, so not always the same amount of time to put into it.
It could happen someone made a mistake and we all had to adjust to make it sound like it was intended that way to the audience. Just counting bars and playing our studied parts rigidly would have caused audible problems.

IMO, knowing the song structure - verses, choruses, etc - and feeling what has to come next is more important.
 
I don't rely on cues from anyone. You should be able to play your songs with no accompaniment.

Totally agree, the whole song should be in your head...better yet in your body even.
Know the song first.
Relying on others for cues can lead to misadventure in cover music, like buddy guitarist forgets the ending outro is 6 bars of something and not 4, and so he screws you up...and so on.

Even though what I just stated above suggests the contrary, I am almost never 'counting' while playing anything. Maybe thats a bad habit pedagogically but all I can do intuitively is feel the music, the parts in verse, chorus instrumental...so on.. So I am feeling that the outro of that song goes for 6 bars and not just 4.
 
I tend to hum or sing along. If I don't know the song well, I try to feel it out and watch the other musicians for body language.

Only time I count anything is if I'm learning something. I'll count things out to make sure I'm putting stuff in the right place, or if I'm having trouble with a passage, I'll play it slow and count or chick my hats on the quarters.
 
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