Triplets NOT in groupings of 3 or 6 beats. How do you feel the bar line??? HELP!

Does anyone have any recommendations for exercises on learning to playing groupings of primarily 16th note triplets in formations other than 3 or 6?

I have a hard time keeping track of the bar line when playing groupings of triplets that don't repeat on the 8th note counts. Currently I've been working on groupings of 8 -

RLRLRLKK LRLRLRKK

Even though this fits nicely into a measure as a set of 3 it took me some time to start to feel where the bar line lies. Is there a way to get to the point where you can improvise fills as triplets in weird groupings and never drop the ball on the '1' when coming out of the fill?

Any recommendations for exercises are appreciated! Thanks.
 
Any time you're playing sixtuplets you have to know how they line up with regular, non-triplet 8th notes. That lick also lines up with a common 8th note triplet phrase with a four note grouping, so you can also use that as a reference for coming out right. But work it out vs. 8th notes.
 
Any time you're playing sixtuplets you have to know how they line up with regular, non-triplet 8th notes. That lick also lines up with a common 8th note triplet phrase with a four note grouping, so you can also use that as a reference for coming out right. But work it out vs. 8th notes.

So I got this particular lick down pretty well while keeping 8th notes with the left foot. When you say "playing sextuplets you have to know how they line up with 8th notes" are you referring to sextuplets as sixteenth notes?
Or are you referring to sextuplets as a grouping of 6 beats/quarter note (which is just sixteenth note triplets.)
 
Have you tried playing in 6/8 or 12/8?
 
Right, those are easy lining up with 8th notes. I'm talking about something like

RLRLK -

https://ibb.co/ebqFqH

if you wanted to play that as sixteenth note triplets is there an easy way to get comfortable keeping track of the downbeats or do you kind of just have to take any odd grouping and work it out to get the hang of it?

https://ibb.co/iCvbxx

That's the one that I've gotten comfortable with. But if I want to learn to improvise these kinds of patterns do I have to just work a bunch of them out individually to get the hang of it? Are there any shortcuts? Even doing a grouping of 8 but putting the kick somewhere in the middle throws the whole thing off for me.

My images aren't working.
 
Joe Morello had a great exercise for that. You can also experiment with playing the stickings from pg. 5-7 stick control as triplets. The four 8th note phrases will outline a half note triplet.

So #5 is written (as 8th notes)

RLRR LRLL RLRR LRLL

as 8th note triplets, it will be:

RLR RLR LLR LRR LRL LRL RRL RLL

The start of each grouping is in boldface - it can be accented or unaccented. If it is accented, it will outline the rhythm of the half note triplet.

We did them as 8th note triplets, but you can do them as 16th note triplets as well, in which the start of every four note grouping would outline the quarter note triplet.

Todd's way is great too. Think about it in as many ways as you can to discover the relationship between the phrase and pulse.

Jeff
 
sixtuplets / sextuplets = 16th note triplets

Right, those are easy lining up with 8th notes. I'm talking about something like

RLRLK -

https://ibb.co/ebqFqH

I don't understand the confusion. The rhythm is still 16th note triplets.

if you wanted to play that as sixteenth note triplets is there an easy way to get comfortable keeping track of the downbeats or do you kind of just have to take any odd grouping and work it out to get the hang of it?

https://ibb.co/iCvbxx

That's the one that I've gotten comfortable with. But if I want to learn to improvise these kinds of patterns do I have to just work a bunch of them out individually to get the hang of it? Are there any shortcuts? Even doing a grouping of 8 but putting the kick somewhere in the middle throws the whole thing off for me.

If you work out a lot of things you should eventually be able to improvise your lines. You can probably improvise them now, if the tempo is slow enough.
 
I don't know if it's exactly the same thing, but I think it's similar: I've been trying to get my mind around groupings of 3 16th's within 4/4 while keeping the 4/4 pulse on hi-hat. For example:

RLK RLK RLK RLK RLK ...

Where the bold is the quarter note to be coincident with HH. Driving me nuts. I can do fills in this pattern and not lose "1", but can't nail the HH or even confidently accent the quarters.

True independence required, or just learning and remembering the feel of different combinations...
 
Remember how hard it was to learn the first things on drums and then work on one of those concepts/phrases at a time it does feel natural. It's not gonna show up as a useful and natural part of your playing unless you do that anyway. There's no rush.
 
Does anyone have any recommendations for exercises on learning to playing groupings of primarily 16th note triplets in formations other than 3 or 6?

I have a hard time keeping track of the bar line when playing groupings of triplets that don't repeat on the 8th note counts. Currently I've been working on groupings of 8 -

RLRLRLKK LRLRLRKK

Even though this fits nicely into a measure as a set of 3 it took me some time to start to feel where the bar line lies. Is there a way to get to the point where you can improvise fills as triplets in weird groupings and never drop the ball on the '1' when coming out of the fill?

Any recommendations for exercises are appreciated! Thanks.

Playing it over and over with a metronome will get you feeling it eventually, but sometimes the fastest way to ingrain phrases over the barline or odd groupings and stuff, and learn to feel where they are and resolve in relation to the beat, is to keep humming a loop of a melody or bassline in your head. Or play it over some house or lounge track.

I find that hearing the rythms in relation to actual music, aids greatly in getting them to feel natural, as opposed to the rather sterile environment of just me, a set and a click.
 
I don't know if it's exactly the same thing, but I think it's similar: I've been trying to get my mind around groupings of 3 16th's within 4/4 while keeping the 4/4 pulse on hi-hat. For example:

RLK RLK RLK RLK RLK ...

Yes it is exactly the same with groups of 3 notes.
Play it counting aloud for 5 Minutes a day at 40BPM.
The basic pattern takes 3 beats to resolve itself, so play it in 3/4 first.
Count the beats and then also count the bars, in 3/4 and 4/4.
I wrote many variations based on groups of three for a future book, 200+ pages worth, and they’re very musical.

I’m working variations of this in 7/8 myself, at the moment. I noticed that while I'm mainly working on variations of groups of 3 & 6 notes in 7/8, it allows me to also play groups of 5 easily.
 
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Take this as a model.

In 3/4, count 1 - 2 - 3 | 1 - 2 - 3 | 1 - 2 - 3 | 1 - 2 - 3 | etc.

Then: 1 - 2 - 3 | 2 - 2 - 3 | 3 - 2 - 3 | 4 - 2 - 3 |

In 4/4, count 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 | 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 | 1 - 2 - 3 -4 | etc.

Then count 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 | 2 - 2 - 3 - 4 | 3 - 2 - 3 -4 | and back to 1.

Then count 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 | 2 - 2 - 3 - 4 | 3 - 2 - 3 -4 | 4 - 2 - 3 - 4 | 5 - 2 - 3 - 4 | 6 - 2 - 3 -4 |7 - 2 - 3 - 4 | 8 - 2 - 3 - 4 | 9 - 2 - 3 -4 |10 - 2 - 3 - 4 | 11 - 2 - 3 - 4 | 12 - 2 - 3 -4 | and back to 1

The key is to count aloud.

Have a look at my drum book which will be available in a few days : Time Manipulation Drum Book


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Actually made some pretty good inroads during practice today. I've got the hat going on the quarter over the 3 16th repeating pattern, though I still am not aware of the bar lines, so that's next.

The other one one my list that I forgot about is keeping 8th note time on HH or ride while alternating between 8ths and quarter note triplets on the kick every other measure. It's just 2 over 3, but reversed from what I'm comfortable with, where the guy going to 3's goes slower instead of faster. Just thought I'd throw that out there while we're torturing ourselves with independence exercises.
 
Right, those are easy lining up with 8th notes. I'm talking about something like

RLRLK -

This one will be harder because it's a 5 note pattern. I'd start with 4 note groupings as the others mention, i.e. RLRK or RLLK.

Also: I think you want to use rests as well! Reading your first post I actually thought you're talking about rests at various places that mix up the rhythmic feel.
So I suggest patterns like these as well:

RLR- (- being a rest)
RL-L or RL-K
R-RL or R-LK

etc...

Also, as already mentioned: Start really slow, count! Get used to hearing more difficult placements.
 
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