sixteenths on hats?

ronyd

Silver Member
To play smooth sixteenths (no accenting), is it an initial wrist pump then fingers: W F F F .....?
 
Are you trying to do it one handed? Depends on how fast you go and what else is going on but I usually do them RLRL if it's at any regular rock song tempo or above.
 
Not sure how you can keep up one handed, smooth 16ths at a decent tempo. I use RLRL. Fast 8th notes with no accents a la Ramones I use one hand.
 
Are you trying to do it one handed? Depends on how fast you go and what else is going on but I usually do them RLRL if it's at any regular rock song tempo or above.

sorry for confusion James, referring to one-handed. Reason I'm asking is I see some notation with unison hat and snare. for me it's on the hairy edge ( Underhill's avator LOL) to keep up.

But makes sense to alternate at faster tempos.
 
Hey, I know how you can do really fast 16th notes on the hi hat with one hand.


stock-photo-male-hands-holding-drum-sticks-isolated-backgrund-54297223.jpg




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I think you would have to be very disciplined to use different strokes and have it sound exactly the same. Usually it doesn't matter all that much, and you can just do the ol' "push/pull" routine, but it results in the first note being accented for every stroke.

So I guess to directly answer your question, I'd just use the same technique for each note, efficiency be damned if it's really that important that each note sound the same.
 
I use all wrist, plus an 8th note-rate forearm movement at faster tempos. Often I'll put my index finger on top of the stick, the way some Latin guys do-- that helps you play low, which is a big help. I'm not a big fan of deciding on the technique beforehand-- I think if you just do them a lot you'll find a technique that works for you. Also look at videos of Marky Ramone, James Gadson, Jeff Porcaro, or any number of Brazilian drummers-- they are all masters of this.
 
something i am constantly working on. my goal is 110. but for now 95 - 102 where 102 sounds / feels like a robot (ugh). i noticed that the many of the cats i follow don't seem to use push-pull (Mayer) or open closed (Gordy Knudtson)...just real efficient rocking wrist motion. i guess this is technically push pull...definitely moeller. but nothing fancy, just years of pushing the tempo into a relaxed efficient stroke that GROOVES. like Porcaro (108-110) or Brian Frasier Moore (102++ ?)

+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0umrvtA_pNc (BFM at 102)
 
Tommy igoe does it really well on his DVD on the medium samba section : waaaayyyyy too fast for a merly mortal guy like myself but I am working on increasing my speed. !!
 
I use all wrist, plus an 8th note-rate forearm movement at faster tempos. Often I'll put my index finger on top of the stick, the way some Latin guys do-- that helps you play low, which is a big help. I'm not a big fan of deciding on the technique beforehand-- I think if you just do them a lot you'll find a technique that works for you. Also look at videos of Marky Ramone, James Gadson, Jeff Porcaro, or any number of Brazilian drummers-- they are all masters of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcFaVfTDWcs
 
It's funny.. straight 16ths or fast 8ths can be a breeze to play up to a point, but once you cross that speed threshold they can make your hand fall off! I use a couple of techniques when the speed is too much of a burn;
- play a bit quieter/lower and use the back fingers to keep the stick propelling along
- switch to 2 hands on the hats and use some sticking tricks to make it sound like it's one hand. eg. the Steve Gadd trick of covering the RH hit on the hats by playing an extra hit with the left (when you hit the backbeat on the snare)
- it is easier if you are creating a rolling accent pattern on the hats; but if you need a straight steady pattern - it can get tiring at fast speeds. Some good techniques mentioned below as well..
 

While Gadsen is one of my favorites, I think this isn't what the OP was about... There's some accenting in that, and I think the OP was more asking about getting a consistent sound. Like you might hear in really straight rock. Or drum-machine hip hop. For me, I just power through usually and make sure my movements, stick heights and everything else are exactly the same.

But that doesn't happen too often, and usually, if the tempo is above where I can keep it sounding totally uniform, then it's really kind of too fast for most people to notice that there's a dynamic difference between the first and second hits of the stroke.
 
Have a look at Jeff Porcaro's video from round 5-8m in. He goes right into exactly what you're trying to achieve and also talks about the technique he uses:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMOjR_Cf96k

Obviously if you practice a single stroke roll you are actually practicing one handed 16ths with both hands at the same time.

I think of particular note in Jeff's video is where he talks about using 'snap ups.' That is, the wrist snaps back, or pulls the stick off the drum as soon as it's hit the drum. The quicker you get the stick off the drum, the quicker you can get it back on!

I learned this technique several years ago and it's served me well.
I've put together some photos explaining it on my website if want to take a look:
http://www.drum2one.co.uk/how_to_hold_the_sticks1.html
http://www.drum2one.co.uk/how_to_hold_the_sticks2.html

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Have a look at Jeff Porcaro's video from round 5-8m in.

Nice... I love Jeff Porcaro! He was a true master.
.. and it's true, it does sound groovier when you play it with one hand. But in those case where the tempo is too fast, and you're playing a 3 hour show of barn burners.. endurance is key and sometimes being able to play really consistent, precise 16ths with 2 hands comes in really handy. Sometimes better to save your hands. I have to admit I've gotten really good at 'faking' fast one-handed 16ths with 2 hands.. and it can turn a tough slog into a walk in the park..
 
Not sure how you can keep up one handed, smooth 16ths at a decent tempo. I use RLRL. Fast 8th notes with no accents a la Ramones I use one hand.

Tom Sawyer by Rush would be a good example of 16ths with one hand played with a straight 'linear feel' with no accents. Listen to that if you haven't heard it yet. It's famous as song amongst drummers so I'd presume you have?

One handed 16ths played with a sort of moeller technique, accenting on and off, every 2 16th notes sound really nice and fluid but are hard to pull off well.
 
One handed 16ths played with a sort of moeller technique, accenting on and off, every 2 16th notes sound really nice and fluid but are hard to pull off well.

My teacher has me working moeller 2's, 3's, and 4's... I had just assumed moeller 4's where what I would use for right handed 16ths when the accents fall on the quarter. You can also do moeller 3's and get a neat 3 over 4 polyrhythm going.
 
One handed 16ths played with a sort of moeller technique, accenting on and off, every 2 16th notes sound really nice and fluid but are hard to pull off well.

Yes.. I use that technique as well; and any other accenting patterns help to relieve the stress at hi tempos. Also I don't know why but it seems easier to play fast straight 16 ths in a half time pattern (Eg. Tom Sawyer) compared to a double time feel. But maybe it's just me.

Someone mentioned difficulty playing 2 handed and keeping them even.. Well it's not really; just practice keeping it steady and thinking of 'making the sound' you want.

Often I find if a tempo is really fast and the band is busy, it sounds better if the drums play a minimal pattern. For example, Tom Petty's Runnin Down a Dream; It sounds like the drummer is cooking.. But all he's playing is 1/4 notes on the hats and a few double or triple hits on the kick pattern to sync with the bass guitar. Its the mesh of the band that makes it cook!
 
Tom Sawyer by Rush would be a good example of 16ths with one hand played with a straight 'linear feel' with no accents. Listen to that if you haven't heard it yet. It's famous as song amongst drummers so I'd presume you have?

One handed 16ths played with a sort of moeller technique, accenting on and off, every 2 16th notes sound really nice and fluid but are hard to pull off well.

I assumed OP was talking about faster 16th notes, but good call - TS is a good example of mainly non-accented 16ths on the hats.
 
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