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  #1  
Old 06-20-2018, 01:03 AM
reDrum reDrum is offline
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Default shell information

Hi how is that material effects the drum?
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:07 AM
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Default Re: shell information

That's the bearing edge. It's what the head sits against. Without going into much detail, the less material the head touches the more it resonates.
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: shell information

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That's the bearing edge. It's what the head sits against. Without going into much detail, the less material the head touches the more it resonates.
So the goal is more dry sound?
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:20 AM
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So the goal is more dry sound?
No the goal is maximum head resonance. If the edge were flat it would mute or dull the head somewhat. Dryness is achieved through tuning and head selection. You need Andy or someone else who knows about drum construction to give you a more in-depth explanation about bearing edges. There are different types, and different reasons for each, all of which is unknown to me. I would like to know myself.
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:20 AM
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Default Re: shell information

wow. I had to keep looking at that. I thought the black line was a piece of thread or string. Totally in the dark . But yes, bearing edge. Resonance makes for better sound.
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:23 AM
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Default Re: shell information

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Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
No the goal is maximum head resonance. If the edge were flat it would mute or dull the head somewhat. Dryness is achieved through tuning and head selection. You need Andy or someone else who knows about drum construction to give you a more in-depth explanation about bearing edges. There are different types, and different reasons for each, all of which is unknown to me. I would like to know myself.
Thank you for the all answers
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:26 AM
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Default Re: shell information

Give this a look-see.

https://www.moderndrummer.com/2014/1...bearing-edges/
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:26 AM
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Default Re: shell information

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wow. I had to keep looking at that. I thought the black line was a piece of thread or string. Totally in the dark . But yes, bearing edge. Resonance makes for better sound.
sorry :D modern art :D ........
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Old 06-20-2018, 03:44 AM
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Default Re: shell information

There is head resonance and there is shell resonance.
Thinner shells have more shell resonance.
Thicker shells have more head resonance.

The bearing edge has an effect on the amount of head resonance and the transfer of head resonance to the shell to make the shell resonate.
A thick edge transfers more resonance to the shell.
A thin edge has less transfer of the head to shell and makes the shell have more head vibrations and overtones.

Metal is harder than wood and allows thin shells to resonate and also still have head vibrations and overtones.

There's more to it, like after-sustain, fundamental decay length and overtone control, but that's the general essence.
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Old 06-20-2018, 03:57 AM
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Default Re: shell information

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There is head resonance and there is shell resonance.
Thinner shells have more shell resonance.
Thicker shells have more head resonance.

The bearing edge has an effect on the amount of head resonance and the transfer of head resonance to the shell to make the shell resonate.
A thick edge transfers more resonance to the shell.
A thin edge has less transfer of the head to shell and makes the shell have more head vibrations and overtones.

Metal is harder than wood and allows thin shells to resonate and also still have head vibrations and overtones.

There's more to it, like after-sustain, fundamental decay length and overtone control, but that's the general essence.
Hot diggity! I learned something today. Thanks Wally!
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Old 06-20-2018, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: shell information

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Originally Posted by WallyY View Post
There is head resonance and there is shell resonance.
Thinner shells have more shell resonance.
Thicker shells have more head resonance.

The bearing edge has an effect on the amount of head resonance and the transfer of head resonance to the shell to make the shell resonate.
A thick edge transfers more resonance to the shell.
A thin edge has less transfer of the head to shell and makes the shell have more head vibrations and overtones.

Metal is harder than wood and allows thin shells to resonate and also still have head vibrations and overtones.

There's more to it, like after-sustain, fundamental decay length and overtone control, but that's the general essence.
İ have joey jordison snare , snare has 1mm thick shell and bearing edge like that photo.1mm is enough to thick?
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:47 PM
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Default Re: shell information

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İ have joey jordison snare , snare has 1mm thick shell and bearing edge like that photo.1mm is enough to thick?
1mm should be fine. Are you having issues tuning the drum or getting the sound you want out of it?
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:30 PM
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Default Re: shell information

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1mm should be fine. Are you having issues tuning the drum or getting the sound you want out of it?
absolutely :) ...........
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  #14  
Old 06-20-2018, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: shell information

Okay well you will have to let us know the sound you are after and surely someone on here can steer you in the right direction. If you can't describe the sound, list some songs that have the sound you want. Snare sound is a personal decision, so we can't just generalize and say do this and expect it to be what you want.
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Old 06-20-2018, 04:33 PM
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Default Re: shell information

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Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
Okay well you will have to let us know the sound you are after and surely someone on here can steer you in the right direction. If you can't describe the sound, list some songs that have the sound you want. Snare sound is a personal decision, so we can't just generalize and say do this and expect it to be what you want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO378id6VbQ

I want at the 4:38 snare sound
Generally when i tuned the snare has very low volume, used ambassador coated,side heads.Followed the tuning bible method.But ı just cant find the sound.I use remo dıplomat side heads , cranked much too.But cant find that fundamental tone of the drum.

At the video, snare has volume and dry sound.Which what i want :)
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Old 06-20-2018, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: shell information

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Originally Posted by reDrum View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO378id6VbQ

I want at the 4:38 snare sound
Generally when i tuned the snare has very low volume, used ambassador coated,side heads.Followed the tuning bible method.But ı just cant find the sound.I use remo dıplomat side heads , cranked much too.But cant find that fundamental tone of the drum.

At the video, snare has volume and dry sound.Which what i want :)
According to Pearl's info page, Joey used a "14x6.5 Reference Series snare (wood)", and based on the sound in that video, I figure the snare is one of those 20-ply models (either maple or birch). The thick-shell snares have a very distinct pop, and I suggest you try out that kind of shell construction to get the sound you're after.
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Old 06-20-2018, 05:04 PM
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Default Re: shell information

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Originally Posted by cbphoto View Post
According to Pearl's info page, Joey used a "14x6.5 Reference Series snare (wood)", and based on the sound in that video, I figure the snare is one of those 20-ply models (either maple or birch). The thick-shell snares have a very distinct pop, and I suggest you try out that kind of shell construction to get the sound you're after.
But video snare has a effective sound.I dont know maybe thickness of referance snare drum.Joey in the all hope is gone tour used triggers with referance drums.But this video taped like 1999-2006 between i think.I know generally he use 13" drums at this times.Maybe he uses referance snare like u said.
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Old 06-20-2018, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: shell information

Well, whatever it is, the kit looks like it'd be fun to toy with.



Here's his signature snare:

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Old 06-20-2018, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: shell information

Dude, youve got your own snare, smile. Someone get that kid a soda or some skittles!
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Old 06-20-2018, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: shell information

Someone is gonna crucify me for saying this, but here goes. His snare in the video sounds like wood for sure. Since yours is metal it will tend to be ringier than what you want, so you need to deaden your head. Duct tape (cringe), those o-ring things, hell even maybe a Pinstripe head. It can be done, but you will have to think outside of the box on this. You will still need to keep the head pretty tight so it doesn't sound mushy like a wet cardboard box. I just don't think a coated Ambassador is gonna get you where you want to be.
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Old 06-20-2018, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: shell information

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Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
Someone is gonna crucify me for saying this, but here goes. His snare in the video sounds like wood for sure. Since yours is metal it will tend to be ringier than what you want, so you need to deaden your head. Duct tape (cringe), those o-ring things, hell even maybe a Pinstripe head. It can be done, but you will have to think outside of the box on this. You will still need to keep the head pretty tight so it doesn't sound mushy like a wet cardboard box. I just don't think a coated Ambassador is gonna get you where you want to be.
Ok batter head is gonna be pinstripe , for bottom head ambassador or diplomat?
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: shell information

I still don't really understand the bearing edge concept.
How does the head know the shape of the edge? It would seem that the head vibrates freely up to the point where it first contacts the shell. Whether that point of contact is at the beginning of a sharp or round edge, wouldn't seem to matter. The area of free vibration should be defined by the diameter of the head up to the point of contact.
Additionally, assuming the very outer edges of the head, past the edge contact point, are not really vibrating much, all the energy of the vibrating head would necessarily be passed into the shell, regardless of whether the contact point is sharp or flat. Where else would that energy go?
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  #23  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:12 PM
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Default Re: shell information

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Ok batter head is gonna be pinstripe , for bottom head ambassador or diplomat?
The ambassador is thicker, so snare sensitivity will be less than that of the diplomat. However, if you play pretty hard and give the snare some punishment the diplomat would more than likely fail before the ambassador. But if you play hard, head sensitivity won't be an issue with the ambassador. If you play lightly, snare sensitivity would be reduced, and the diplomat would be my choice in that scenario.

Fess, like you said the head would vibrate where it first contacts the shell. If the edge were flat, as the head moved up and down once you struck it the head would touch the inner edge of the shell when it goes down, and outer when it goes up. The point of contact would change rapidly, cutting the resonance of the head I'm sure. This would also probably play hell with tuning.
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: shell information

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Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
The ambassador is thicker, so snare sensitivity will be less than that of the diplomat. However, if you play pretty hard and give the snare some punishment the diplomat would more than likely fail before the ambassador. But if you play hard, head sensitivity won't be an issue with the ambassador. If you play lightly, snare sensitivity would be reduced, and the diplomat would be my choice in that scenario.

Fess, like you said the head would vibrate where it first contacts the shell. If the edge were flat, as the head moved up and down once you struck it the head would touch the inner edge of the shell when it goes down, and outer when it goes up. The point of contact would change rapidly, cutting the resonance of the head I'm sure. This would also probably play hell with tuning.
Thank you for the all advice and answers
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Old 06-21-2018, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: shell information

https://reverb.com/news/how-bearing-...-of-your-drums
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Old 06-21-2018, 01:53 AM
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Default Re: shell information

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I still don't really understand the bearing edge concept.
How does the head know the shape of the edge? It would seem that the head vibrates freely up to the point where it first contacts the shell. Whether that point of contact is at the beginning of a sharp or round edge, wouldn't seem to matter. The area of free vibration should be defined by the diameter of the head up to the point of contact.
Additionally, assuming the very outer edges of the head, past the edge contact point, are not really vibrating much, all the energy of the vibrating head would necessarily be passed into the shell, regardless of whether the contact point is sharp or flat. Where else would that energy go?
The rounder, or flatter if you will, the bearing edge, the more head is in contact with it. The sharper the edge, the less head will will touch the shell. Theses two facotrs have a ton to do with the sound. It would be like putting a big piece or little piece of moon gel on the head. Imagine the head lying on either a knife edge or a pencil. Much different sound.
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Old 06-21-2018, 02:22 AM
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Default Re: shell information

I would think that the sharper edge would would simply vibrate faster than the rounded edge. But both would transfer the same energy. The energy of the vibrating head has to go somewhere.
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Old 06-21-2018, 04:44 AM
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Default Re: shell information

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I would think that the sharper edge would would simply vibrate faster than the rounded edge. But both would transfer the same energy. The energy of the vibrating head has to go somewhere.
I think sharper edges make a longer note, because on rounded edges the head is getting slightly more muffled by the shell. I also think there's probably more overtones with a sharper edge. Think of it like putting those muffle rings on a drum, just a little less notable. I bet volume and energy are the same either way, and you may be right it might vibrate faster

This by gruntersdad really helped me understand a lot better https://www.moderndrummer.com/2014/1...bearing-edges/
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Old 06-23-2018, 06:29 AM
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Default Re: shell information

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Originally Posted by reDrum View Post
Hi how is that material effects the drum?



This is not the 'bearing edge' as everybody in here insisted. The bearing edge is obscured from view by the head that resides on top of the bearing edge.


That extra half inch of shell on the inside is the extra bit on the flange that creates the bearing edge. The flange actually provides structural support to help keep that thin metal shell in-round.


I see in the comments also that the marketing hype of sharp bearing edges has maintained the belief system that sharp edges are somehow better for drums... They are much easier to make and take a lot less time to do it right...meaning cheaper to produce for makers.


There is no 'best'. All styles are just added flavors / colors to add to your palette of potential.
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:49 PM
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This is not the 'bearing edge' as everybody in here insisted. The bearing edge is obscured from view by the head that resides on top of the bearing edge.


That extra half inch of shell on the inside is the extra bit on the flange that creates the bearing edge. The flange actually provides structural support to help keep that thin metal shell in-round.


I see in the comments also that the marketing hype of sharp bearing edges has maintained the belief system that sharp edges are somehow better for drums... They are much easier to make and take a lot less time to do it right...meaning cheaper to produce for makers.


There is no 'best'. All styles are just added flavors / colors to add to your palette of potential.

i dont understand the "in-round" thing.If that flange is not there shape of round is distorted?Btw that flange is a little :)
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Old 06-23-2018, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: shell information

What is circled is a flange made while bending the drum shell to both provide strength and to form a smooth surface, bearing edge, for the head to sit on. The flange bent over will keep the thin metal drum from becoming an oval, like the indentations on a soup can provide strength in the can. The flange could be bent over further to make a less round or sharper edge but this has been determined the proper angle for this drum.
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Old 06-23-2018, 07:40 PM
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There is no 'best'. All styles are just added flavors / colors to add to your palette of potential.
Is there a device that allows the average drummer to re-form a bearing edge? Or is that relegated to specialty drum shops?
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:32 PM
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Is there a device that allows the average drummer to re-form a bearing edge? Or is that relegated to specialty drum shops?

Not really for a rolled metal shell drum like the OP. A wood snare, yes. Sandpaper, a good eye, and some elbow grease is all you need.
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:43 PM
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Not really for a rolled metal shell drum like the OP. A wood snare, yes. Sandpaper, a good eye, and some elbow grease is all you need.
A router table could do it with precision pretty effortlessly. Sandpaper, a good eye and some elbow grease will more than likely screw the edge up.
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Old 06-24-2018, 02:54 AM
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A router table could do it with precision pretty effortlessly. Sandpaper, a good eye and some elbow grease will more than likely screw the edge up.

Routers aren't for kids and you don't use routers on metal parts without huge precautions. Very dangerous.


You ain't going to lose a finger using sandpaper.
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:15 AM
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Routers aren't for kids and you don't use routers on metal parts without huge precautions. Very dangerous.


You ain't going to lose a finger using sandpaper.
You said, and I quote, "Not really for a rolled metal shell drum like the OP. A wood snare, yes".

A router table is perfectly safe if you pay attention. For wood, not metal, as you said yourself.
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:37 AM
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Default Re: shell information

A friend of mine has a couple old toms (13”, 16”) and they sound like poo. I was wondering if it’d be possible to experiment on the bearing edges. Are there router bits for bearing edges? It seems that’d be proprietary.
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:52 AM
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A friend of mine has a couple old toms (13”, 16”) and they sound like poo. I was wondering if it’d be possible to experiment on the bearing edges. Are there router bits for bearing edges? It seems that’d be proprietary.
You need a table first and foremost. If you had the angled bit to match the edge profile you want (30, 45, 60 degree, or whatever you choose), you can do it if your shell is square, meaning the depth is the same all the way around. A bearing is used at the end of the bit to keep the distance from the bit/shell the same, then you basically set the depth of the bit on the table to match the width of material you want to remove. It's pretty easy, and as long as you keep the shell flush on the table you really can't mess it up. The bearing prevents you from doing so.
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